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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 14, 2017 15:44:38 GMT -5
I cannot believe that WCW created a magazine because... WWF had one. Then, they never bothered to hire anyone like Tony, who has a background in journalism, to work on it or promote the f***ing thing. Yeah, wcw was never about drawing money, it was just a vanity project. JJ Dillon in a legends round table said that wcw was never interested in drawing buyrates in ppvs but about the stupid ratings. Let's face it, wcw was basically tna with money WCW was owned by a TV network, their biggest concern was ratings and WCW delivered on that front for most of it's run, delivering similar ratings to WWF programming pre-raw and then in the pre-NWO era Nitro. It wasn't some absurd vanity project like the WBF or XFL, or something kindly old Ted Turner kept alive through sheer sentimentality, it was a part of Turner's transformation of his stations from the Dukes of Hazard rerun network into a major broadcaster, and he succeeded.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 14, 2017 16:32:10 GMT -5
Yeah, wcw was never about drawing money, it was just a vanity project. JJ Dillon in a legends round table said that wcw was never interested in drawing buyrates in ppvs but about the stupid ratings. Let's face it, wcw was basically tna with money WCW was owned by a TV network, their biggest concern was ratings and WCW delivered on that front for most of it's run, delivering similar ratings to WWF programming pre-raw and then in the pre-NWO era Nitro. It wasn't some absurd vanity project like the WBF or XFL, or something kindly old Ted Turner kept alive through sheer sentimentality, it was a part of Turner's transformation of his stations from the Dukes of Hazard rerun network into a major broadcaster, and he succeeded. WCW was profitable for a couple of years before costing Turner millions and millions. This company had people under payroll who never worked a match in the company (Lanny Poffo), they had like 90 guys hired. They ran shows without advertising and their stars didn't even bother to show up (Goldberg episode). It's head writer actually was quoted giving racist remarks that cost the company millions of dollars. At the end of the day wcw was a failure, that despite having the biggest ratings in TNT and tbs, their shows got cancelled because off all their losses.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 14, 2017 17:02:34 GMT -5
WCW was owned by a TV network, their biggest concern was ratings and WCW delivered on that front for most of it's run, delivering similar ratings to WWF programming pre-raw and then in the pre-NWO era Nitro. It wasn't some absurd vanity project like the WBF or XFL, or something kindly old Ted Turner kept alive through sheer sentimentality, it was a part of Turner's transformation of his stations from the Dukes of Hazard rerun network into a major broadcaster, and he succeeded. WCW was profitable for a couple of years before costing Turner millions and millions. This company had people under payroll who never worked a match in the company (Lanny Poffo), they had like 90 guys hired. They ran shows without advertising and their stars didn't even bother to show up (Goldberg episode). It's head writer actually was quoted giving racist remarks that cost the company millions of dollars. At the end of the day wcw was a failure, that despite having the biggest ratings in TNT and tbs, their shows got cancelled because off all their losses. The WWF/E have hired people who have never made it to air, look at the more recent case of Armando Estrada, or guys like Scott Vick during the attitude era. The WWF/E have made similar boneheaded decisions, they wanted to give away Lesnar/Austin on free TV with no buildup for crying out loud and spent years undermining their own PPVs by repeating the main events on free TV before and/or after the show. The WWF/E keep Michael Hayes employed after getting the Hardys into drink and drugs, embarrassing the company at Steph's wedding, driving Bobby Lashley out the door with open racism and so on and so forth. WCW didn't hire Russo knowing he was a racist, but the WWF sure did when they re-hired him in the early 2000s. WCW got cancelled because new management took over the Turner channels and they did not want wrestling, losing money was just the excuse they needed. If WCW's mounting losses were the issue, they could have sold the company for vastly more money than they did to repay some of that, as well as shifted many of the ongoing issues to Fusient had they let them keep their TV slot, but they wanted rid of wrestling entirely and that would have happened if WCW whether were profitable or not. Wrestling is a business with a long history of putting stupid/shady/unsuitable people in positions of power, it's not just WCW, it's across the board. WCW wasn't a vanity project, it did what it was bought to do, could it have done better? Sure, but it's revisionist history to claim it was always a failure and never delivered what it was supposed to.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 14, 2017 22:15:45 GMT -5
WCW was profitable for a couple of years before costing Turner millions and millions. This company had people under payroll who never worked a match in the company (Lanny Poffo), they had like 90 guys hired. They ran shows without advertising and their stars didn't even bother to show up (Goldberg episode). It's head writer actually was quoted giving racist remarks that cost the company millions of dollars. At the end of the day wcw was a failure, that despite having the biggest ratings in TNT and tbs, their shows got cancelled because off all their losses. The WWF/E have hired people who have never made it to air, look at the more recent case of Armando Estrada, or guys like Scott Vick during the attitude era. The WWF/E have made similar boneheaded decisions, they wanted to give away Lesnar/Austin on free TV with no buildup for crying out loud and spent years undermining their own PPVs by repeating the main events on free TV before and/or after the show. The WWF/E keep Michael Hayes employed after getting the Hardys into drink and drugs, embarrassing the company at Steph's wedding, driving Bobby Lashley out the door with open racism and so on and so forth. WCW didn't hire Russo knowing he was a racist, but the WWF sure did when they re-hired him in the early 2000s. WCW got cancelled because new management took over the Turner channels and they did not want wrestling, losing money was just the excuse they needed. If WCW's mounting losses were the issue, they could have sold the company for vastly more money than they did to repay some of that, as well as shifted many of the ongoing issues to Fusient had they let them keep their TV slot, but they wanted rid of wrestling entirely and that would have happened if WCW whether were profitable or not. Wrestling is a business with a long history of putting stupid/shady/unsuitable people in positions of power, it's not just WCW, it's across the board. WCW wasn't a vanity project, it did what it was bought to do, could it have done better? Sure, but it's revisionist history to claim it was always a failure and never delivered what it was supposed to. WCW apparently lost 60 million dollars in 2000. According to Schiavone they had also lost money in 99. They were never going to recover. Time Warner didn't need to keep supporting a failed and dead brand. Losing money is more than an acceptable excuse to cancel the shows. The reason it got sold so cheap is that they were not gonna air more wrestling on its channels. Say what you want about McMahon employing shitty individuals and wasting money in contracts, but he knows how to run a company and draw money, something wcw failed at doing. Ratings are good but are not everything. WCW failed on several other revenues like the magazine, their house shows, merch and licensing, budgets (90 wrestlers and props and special effects), and their stupid contracts in which guys didn't had to show up to get paid. WCW did deliver for a couple of years but it failed miserably for the rest of its existence
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Post by thetower52 on Mar 14, 2017 23:41:07 GMT -5
Tony is a dirty old man
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 15, 2017 1:47:27 GMT -5
Conrad: What do you remember about Bam Bam Bigelow vs Shawin Stasiak in a tattoo match? Tony: I remember Stacy Keibler
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 15, 2017 12:17:38 GMT -5
The WWF/E have hired people who have never made it to air, look at the more recent case of Armando Estrada, or guys like Scott Vick during the attitude era. The WWF/E have made similar boneheaded decisions, they wanted to give away Lesnar/Austin on free TV with no buildup for crying out loud and spent years undermining their own PPVs by repeating the main events on free TV before and/or after the show. The WWF/E keep Michael Hayes employed after getting the Hardys into drink and drugs, embarrassing the company at Steph's wedding, driving Bobby Lashley out the door with open racism and so on and so forth. WCW didn't hire Russo knowing he was a racist, but the WWF sure did when they re-hired him in the early 2000s. WCW got cancelled because new management took over the Turner channels and they did not want wrestling, losing money was just the excuse they needed. If WCW's mounting losses were the issue, they could have sold the company for vastly more money than they did to repay some of that, as well as shifted many of the ongoing issues to Fusient had they let them keep their TV slot, but they wanted rid of wrestling entirely and that would have happened if WCW whether were profitable or not. Wrestling is a business with a long history of putting stupid/shady/unsuitable people in positions of power, it's not just WCW, it's across the board. WCW wasn't a vanity project, it did what it was bought to do, could it have done better? Sure, but it's revisionist history to claim it was always a failure and never delivered what it was supposed to. WCW apparently lost 60 million dollars in 2000. According to Schiavone they had also lost money in 99. They were never going to recover. Time Warner didn't need to keep supporting a failed and dead brand. Losing money is more than an acceptable excuse to cancel the shows. The reason it got sold so cheap is that they were not gonna air more wrestling on its channels. Say what you want about McMahon employing shitty individuals and wasting money in contracts, but he knows how to run a company and draw money, something wcw failed at doing. Ratings are good but are not everything. WCW failed on several other revenues like the magazine, their house shows, merch and licensing, budgets (90 wrestlers and props and special effects), and their stupid contracts in which guys didn't had to show up to get paid. WCW did deliver for a couple of years but it failed miserably for the rest of its existence In 1996, Monday night Raw's ratings dipped below a 2, they were running a million shows which were drawing less and less but that little income was barely keeping the company alive, you had actual name talent like Bob Holly not being paid enough to live on and only surviving on the road because guys like Sid had big hearts. They were RAVAGED by year after year of sex, drugs and steroid scandals, talent loss, bad booking, bad business decisions like the WBF and playing games with PPV carriers that led to the WWF only getting about 40% of the revenue from their shows up until the network, and were putting serious consideration into ending their operations outside of the northeast of America, Canada and Europe. The only reason we don't know the full extent of the WWF's losses in the mid 90s period is because it was a privately held company and wrasslin' people (AKA carnies) were kept away from the business side so the only way anyone will know for sure is if Linda loses her mind and does a shoot interview, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were losing similar numbers to WCW in the 2000s. After a near decade long decline, they turned it around so there is no reason WCW couldn't have done likewise under new ownership, hell they'd done it once already, the majority of the big contracts causing most of those losses were expiring in the next two or three years, and the massive roster had already been trimmed down, all they needed to do was remain on TV until the ship was fully righted using more affordable talent. WCW delivered for it's entire existence, from beginning to end their programming were among the top rated original content on the Turner network, which is what they were bought by a TV company to do. If you do what you expected to do, you're not a failure.
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,084
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 17, 2017 18:42:33 GMT -5
Havoc 90 will be Monday's show
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 7:05:45 GMT -5
Thank goodness, something older.
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Mar 18, 2017 20:06:41 GMT -5
As a hardcore WCW fan, that last episode was a huge f***ing bummer to listen to. I'll forever hold the opinion in my heart that WCW was better than WWE ever was.
WCW 4-Life, brother.
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Post by burdette25159 on Mar 18, 2017 21:56:00 GMT -5
Havoc 90 will be Monday's show Aka the night that Sid Vicious got Dusty Finished
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 13:12:02 GMT -5
By the end of this episode I wanted to give Tony a job just so he would stop complaining about wwe not giving him a job.
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Post by LexExpress on Mar 19, 2017 16:00:38 GMT -5
I'm enjoying this show for the most part but it gets a bit frustrating when Conrad asks something like, "So there were rumours going around that X was happening, did you hear that?" ..... "Nope." and then he'll ask something else and get a similar answer, and then just move on again. Why can't he just say, okay so what *do* you remember about the week leading up to the last Nitro?, and give Tony free reign to talk for a bit? I feel like we'd get more interesting stories that way.
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,084
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 19, 2017 20:15:14 GMT -5
Conrad said for next weeks poll it's all about 91
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 19, 2017 20:22:13 GMT -5
I'm so glad to have discovered this. I enjoy Conrad a lot, but I can't stand Bruce Prichard. He comes off like a prick. Shiavone on the other hand I've always enjoyed, so I'll be giving this a listen.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 20, 2017 10:16:57 GMT -5
he mentions Jim Herd talking about "the hunchbacks" that eventually became the Ding Dongs
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 20, 2017 11:12:25 GMT -5
The thing about WCW when it comes to ratings and profit and everything else is that it's important to understand that a television network producing a wrestling show is necessarily a 1:1 comparison with an individual company like WWE; it's the same frustration that gets me when Lucha Underground is talked about. They're not quite the same in operation at all. WCW did suffer from overspending way past its means, and in excess of what would have been reasonable or sane, but not only did WCW serve for a while as a loss leader for the network, but they would have had to pay for any other show to be produced in that time slot as well. WCW didn't need the axe, it needed to be smarter internally and needed more external oversight from someone who could shift them into a more disciplined course, like Sinclair giving ROH a budget to work within. WCW had a place and a purpose, and that wasn't, or at least didn't have to be, the exact same place and purpose as WWE, because this was a network-owned property. The fact it went on so long is proof of that; they could have easily kept it going with all the money they did, but it was network politics that sank it and refused to let it have anything, down to the fact that the offer to buy the company and take the debt responsibility off of them was met with "No, we don't want it anywhere". You think they didn't spend tens of millions of dollars on whatever they put on in the time slots WCW was no longer taking up?
It's partly a failing on Turner Broadcasting to begin with that they allowed WCW to give guys the contracts they did, with the bloated money and the utter lack of means to rein anybody in, let alone that insane Hogan contract. They just let it grow into something unwieldy and preposterous, and enabled people who ran the company into the ground by letting them do something they had to have known was years out of control.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 20, 2017 16:25:50 GMT -5
Ok former president George H W Bush wanted to meet Ric and it actually happened at a fundraiser. WCW being idiots didn't even bother to send cameras or acknowledge it on tv. The acting president was a huge Flair fan and this could've been major mainstream publicity and wcw failed to capitalize on it. Just like when Mark McGuire was a Goldberg fan and was rubbing the bats on him for good luck.
Imagine what Vince would've done given those opportunities.
To quote Tony Schiavone, "why didn't we send cameras? Because we had our heads up our ass."
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 20, 2017 17:41:42 GMT -5
Ok former president George H W Bush wanted to meet Ric and it actually happened at a fundraiser. WCW being idiots didn't even bother to send cameras or acknowledge it on tv. The acting president was a huge Flair fan and this could've been major mainstream publicity and wcw failed to capitalize on it. Just like when Mark McGuire was a Goldberg fan and was rubbing the bats on him for good luck. Imagine what Vince would've done given those opportunities. To quote Tony Schiavone, "why didn't we send cameras? Because we had our heads up our ass." That is assuming they would have allowed the meeting to be recorded and used for promotional purposes, which is a big if. Without footage, Ric Flair met the vice president is something worth of a throwaway line on commentary, nothing more.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 20, 2017 18:00:44 GMT -5
Ok former president George H W Bush wanted to meet Ric and it actually happened at a fundraiser. WCW being idiots didn't even bother to send cameras or acknowledge it on tv. The acting president was a huge Flair fan and this could've been major mainstream publicity and wcw failed to capitalize on it. Just like when Mark McGuire was a Goldberg fan and was rubbing the bats on him for good luck. Imagine what Vince would've done given those opportunities. To quote Tony Schiavone, "why didn't we send cameras? Because we had our heads up our ass." That is assuming they would have allowed the meeting to be recorded and used for promotional purposes, which is a big if. Without footage, Ric Flair met the vice president is something worth of a throwaway line on commentary, nothing more. Turner Broadcasting had enough pull to get cameras there. Also Ric took a picture with the president and he even wrote a personal message for Flair. This moment was very important and it wasn't even shown in tv or acknowledged, imagine if Hogan met with the President. Vince would capitalize on the moment.
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