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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 31, 2017 14:29:48 GMT -5
JBL no one (here) has said he hasn't earned his spot But then this is, I think, a huge problem with wrestling insiders also. I don't give a shit who has 'earned' anything. If the fans love you, they love you. The Rock was the biggest star in the industry within three years of going pro. He didn't earn shit. He didn't lose an ear in Germany or wrestle under a hood in Japan or nearly get knifed in Mexico or job out to Ultimate Warrior at Mania. Why would you not just push the guy that most fans want to see?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 31, 2017 14:37:50 GMT -5
If wrestling content gains an audience on Netflix, the WWE and it's network will be in real trouble down the line because they'll have a rival in the same price range that offers more than just wrestling and condescension. As much of the WWE like to brag about the WWE network being a massive success, it wouldn't take more than a hundred thousand or so subscribers cancelling for them to drop into the red financially, and then what? More Roman Reigns and interviews blaming the fans aren't going to bring people back.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Mar 31, 2017 14:38:58 GMT -5
f*** JBL.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Not related to Phantasmo
Posts: 15,766
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Mar 31, 2017 14:42:30 GMT -5
I firmly believe that Cena remaining a babyface and Reigns being the heir apparent is 100% attributable to their nature as a publicly traded company. They identify their "main character" to their investors and that is who they're committed to. Changing that position is dangerous for them, no different than if they committed to reducing operating expenses and realized halfway through that they no longer needed the same levels of reduction- they have to follow through. This is going to trickle down throughout the company, so with all due respect to JBL, I don't believe for a second that these are your independent thoughts for a second. Bottom line- if Reigns had gone over Batista at the end of the royal rumble, he would likely be perceived differently. Reigns going over Daniel Bryan a year later has likely permanently damaged this iteration of his character and someone over there should probably be the one to raise their hand and admit they have gotten it wrong. He's very good in the ring and has a great presence and look. He could even be the top guy, just needs to take a step or two back at this point. This is the most rational reason I've thought about. The investors have to see when what a company claims they have. The company then invest in showing what they've claimed. Which is easier to do when you don't have people visibly shitting on your promises. Sure they can be right to a degree, but making it seem like the fans have it wrong for most part about how they feel and being in a business where they can be vocal about how they feel about their customers is a disturbingly unique dynamic. It's like when people don't understand just how many entities they invite into their personal affairs once they sign some paperwork for what's suppose to be simple cause and effect. And we on, these forums know all to well about the level of arrogance that goes on in that place.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,302
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 31, 2017 14:43:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't at all remember Reigns being "chosen" by internet fans in the Shield days as baldie here is suggesting. By some maybe, definitely not all. It was pretty even between all three guys as far as who they wanted to see. That's why The Shield worked.
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Post by lookout on Mar 31, 2017 14:57:05 GMT -5
JBL no one (here) has said he hasn't earned his spot. What we are booing is the same tired formula of taking someone and shoving them in our face under the guise of 'THIS IS YOUR BABYFACE HERO LOVE HIM!" and when it fails miserably try to fumble around and pretend like he was a heel the whole time and this was all a brilliant work. I haven't read through this entire thread but i'm sure others have pointed this out already. What frustrates me the most is virtually any wrestler who was pushed as much as he was would be getting the same loud reactions. Jbl acts like ONLY reigns could draw that amount of "interest"...which is such garbage. They also mistake what those boos really represent....they pretend..if not outright lie...that those boos happen because people care about his character...which again is garbage...the boos are directed at wwe and the fact he has been forced down everyones throat. Like myself, i'd be willing to guess that the vast majority of people who boos reigns would be just fine not seeing him at all. They don't care about seeing him win or lose...they just don't care. Being sick of seeing someone or sick of someone getting a push is NOT the same as caring about that wrestler...no matter how much wwe, mcmahon, and jbl claim it is.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Mar 31, 2017 15:17:35 GMT -5
There's something to be said about them going on this rant in a stadium which will have 50,000+ fans in it on Sunday, all who will have spent thousands, booked time off work, in lots of cases travelled hours and hours... And these bellends are talking down to them. Incredible.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 31, 2017 15:18:03 GMT -5
JBL no one (here) has said he hasn't earned his spot But then this is, I think, a huge problem with wrestling insiders also. I don't give a shit who has 'earned' anything. If the fans love you, they love you. The Rock was the biggest star in the industry within three years of going pro. He didn't earn shit. He didn't lose an ear in Germany or wrestle under a hood in Japan or nearly get knifed in Mexico or job out to Ultimate Warrior at Mania. Why would you not just push the guy that most fans want to see?Exactly. To me, you "earn" a main event push by getting over. That's it. If the fans love you, you've earned that spot.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,508
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Mar 31, 2017 15:21:25 GMT -5
What of those of us who actually do want him as a top guy?
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
The King of North America
Posts: 60,689
Member is Online
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Mar 31, 2017 15:23:24 GMT -5
Essentially is what they're saying. I feel like everyone should see this bullshit. It says something that WWE uses the guy whose antics have been believed to be the cause of Mauro Ranallo's depression episode to say this. And it's something that doesn't give them a good look at all.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,142
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 31, 2017 15:23:34 GMT -5
There's something to be said about them going on this rant in a stadium which will have 50,000+ fans in it on Sunday, all who will have spent thousands, booked time off work, in lots of cases travelled hours and hours... And these bellends are talking down to them. Incredible. And yet, I have this weird respect for this massive stubbornness, for them sticking to their guns no matter how much people shit on them for it. It doesn't mean I think they're right or anything, I'm just kind of impressed in a weird way.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Mar 31, 2017 15:28:16 GMT -5
I stopped listening to Rosenberg's wrestling podcast because he was a douchebag and that comment on this show made me turn it off too.
I will be cancelling my subscription after WM on Sunday and won't be tuning in anymore, especially because I'm such a stupid fan.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Mar 31, 2017 15:35:13 GMT -5
At this point, WWE is going to do what WWE wants to do. No matter what they are shelling out, people will pay for it. There's also way too many upset fans that say they are done with WWE only to keep the network and tune in to Raw and Smackdown every week. WWE will keep on making fun of its fans and is going to keep kicking them in the balls because they know damn well that the majority of fans are just going to smile and say "thank you sir" when it's all said and done. There's some IWC fans that legit have stockholm syndrome with WWE because there's really no alternative and WWE as of late has been getting every big time inde guy left and right.
WWE doesn't want to draw money. WWE doesn't want to give what the fans are willing to pay for. It's just going to tell its own story only for themselves and no one else, because people will be there to listen to them.
I will say the comment about "We picked Roman to be the guy" is utter crap. It's been Dean and Seth since day one. Roman has kind of been the other guy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:36:34 GMT -5
What of those of us who actually do want him as a top guy? Contrary to how you feel sometimes about this forum, a lot of us would be cool with Roman as a top guy. Nepotism aside, he has a look, charisma, promo skills, and a competent moveset as a performer. The problem is that WWE is schizophrenic about how to book him, yet don't seem to let him try something of his own volition. Most of what he does is the company saying so & not Roman. Heels typically can color outside the lines & he could experiment with new ideas instead of Vince and Hunter trying to jam that square peg into a round hole and then blame everybody else when it doesn't work. Once he finds what works, then you can transition him back to good guy. Can't be any worse than how Rollins has been handled for the past 3 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:40:11 GMT -5
Is there a company that has such utter contempt for their customers then the WWE? I have been saying this for years. I think EA & maybe Hollywood studios, but WWE is #1 in my list.
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Post by eJm on Mar 31, 2017 15:48:48 GMT -5
JBL no one (here) has said he hasn't earned his spot But then this is, I think, a huge problem with wrestling insiders also. I don't give a shit who has 'earned' anything. If the fans love you, they love you. The Rock was the biggest star in the industry within three years of going pro. He didn't earn shit. He didn't lose an ear in Germany or wrestle under a hood in Japan or nearly get knifed in Mexico or job out to Ultimate Warrior at Mania. Why would you not just push the guy that most fans want to see?I agree with this completely and it says a lot that someone like AJ Styles, a guy who many said when he was in TNA would never get over in WWE because his size and 'indie cred', is not only one of the top merchandise sellers in WWE but in a high profile match at WrestleMania (whether it's a good decision or not or whether it's a good match or not) despite the fact that 85% of his career is stuff WWE can't use or make the casual fan aware of. They can literally just use his match with Hurricane, a couple of WCW Saturday Night matches and that's it. It's one of the stranger things of the last, say, decade plus of WWE TV. There have been countless people who were over to some degree and most of them were never really capitalised on. Some of it came down to the mentality of always wanting to build the world title(s) only, screw everything else (which was why the Reign of Terror had all the singles titles unified on Raw and placed with HHH for reasons that still haven't been justified) and some of it coming down to it not being in 'the plan' whatever the hell the plan was. So instead of having a balanced roster of varying money makers that was one of the factors that helped turn the tide against WCW in the Monday Night Wars, the main eventers are constantly put in situations where they make the rest of the talent look like jobbers and nobodies. 'I could have a better match with a broomstick than 85% of the roster could' anyone? To your point, I have this feeling it's still resentment from WrestleMania 30 and having to modify from their Batista/Orton idea which in heinsight is really bizarre because it was one of the few times in the Raw After WrestleMania era of WWE where the crowd was HAPPY throughout. Seriously, compare that show to the show after WrestleMania 28 and '18 Seconds' where the crowd pretty much told the company to go f*** itself and the 30 crowd was into pretty much everything. From Cesaro revealing himself as a Heyman guy to Warrior's speech, to even the main event where the Shield saved Bryan, they had a great time. And yet, to this day, instead of capitalising off a show where the three biggest names in wrestling literally said to the crowd 'We're the old era, look out of these guys in the back to be the future, they're awesome', we're set to either headline a show with two part timers or a part timer facing a dude that needs so much of a reboot, Marv Wolfman itching at the bit to write it and George Perez is willing to do interiors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 16:03:20 GMT -5
Just saw the video for the first time.
Holy crap.
I hear Peter Rosenberg in the morning on my way to work, on my drive back home since the idiots at ESPN think he can discuss sports (spoiler: he can't and ruined the Michael Kay Show for me), and now he's in the WWE.
For the life of me I can't understand what networks/executives see in that guy. Annoying would be an understatement. I can't escape this dude.
/End rant
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 31, 2017 16:03:43 GMT -5
Because of the trend of TV ratings as a whole, WWE still does quite well and so their next deal might not be any worse than the current deal. I'm skeptical. For a few reasons. One, a big part of their pitch was that WWE is must-see TV, like traditional sports. This is mostly meant in terms of live vs taped viewing for advertising purposes, but I'd suggest that the viewership collapse really hurts that argument - more and more people are deciding that, actually, it is missable. They also don't make nearly as much in ad revenue that a comparably-viewed non-wrestling show would, which means that WWE having viewership higher than replacement-level means they are actually much more comparable in ad revenues than the audience numbers would suggest (I'm now really wishing I knew how significant the difference is) - by which I mean, a replacement for WWE wouldn't need to have an audience nearly as big as Raw's in order to make the same ad revenues. And, USA's big reason for keeping them is to lift up USA's overall numbers. With WWE's numbers falling so precipitously, they are far less able to do that. Now, in theory, TVs overall decline may make other stations more likely to jump in for the next contract out of desperation, but I feel like the likeliest candidates - ESPN and FS1 - probably had some other reasons they didn't bid in earnest last time (in particular, that they don't want to have their brand tarnished by bringing on the fake redneck rasslin' show) that won't go away within the next couple of years. Just for comparison's sake, between 2011 and 2016, the 18-24 age group's time spent watching "traditional TV" dropped around 40%; the 25-34 age group, a 28% decrease; 12-17 year olds, 37%; and 35-49, 12%. www.marketingcharts.com/television/are-young-people-watching-less-tv-24817/
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 31, 2017 16:04:30 GMT -5
One of the things about this that gets me is... ok, you don't care about your hardcore fans who hate Roman; you instead care about casual fans who might be into Roman. Fine.
But the thing is, they don't seem to be able to comprehend how bizarre this spectacle looks to these casual fans the WWE wants to win over. If you jump in to the product any time in the past couple of years and just start watching, Roman's obviously a huge heel, because people are booing him. Wait, but the announcers are praising him, so huh, I guess they're heels too. Wait, but this is structured really weird, because the heel won, but it doesn't look like it's setting up for him to get his comeuppance, so what the hell is even going on?
Basically, you have to know about this whole stupid war between the WWE and its hardcore fans in order for any of Roman's segments to make any sense. So in other words, you have to be a hardcore fan.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 31, 2017 17:14:57 GMT -5
At this point I think the Reigns push is basically WWE trolling the audience. How else can it be explained? Why else would they have put him at #30 in the Rumble the way they did? The reason I was never especially on the Cena heel bandwagon is that I have my doubts that Cena in non rapper mode could be a particularly good heel. But Reigns? I think he could be a fantastic heel. What makes it ultra bizarre is that the dude was a heel for 90% of his Shield run.
This stuff doesn't come without a cost however. Look at WWE's ratings. This time next year I wouldn't be shocked if they were at 2.5-2.7 million viewers every week for Raw. At some point USA is not going to be happy with these ratings and will low ball WWE big time in the next negotiations.
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