Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 32,071
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Post by Perd on Jun 9, 2017 22:07:53 GMT -5
Nexus will always be the one that bothers me. I really think it was a "strike while the iron's hot moment" and it passed them by.
I also take issue with him saying he's never been protected. Of course he has. Everybody that reached his level has. And, to an extent, rightfully so.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,958
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Post by Dub H on Jun 9, 2017 22:14:10 GMT -5
Sorry,there will never be an reason Rusev shouldn`t have lost to Swagger.
They buried 2 for the sake of one there. What a Deal!
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,639
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Post by unc40 on Jun 9, 2017 22:25:55 GMT -5
Maybe John and the decision makers at WWE should be more motivated in thinking up a better excuse for burying young talent other than the tired old "they're not motivated" line.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jun 9, 2017 22:27:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on this.
Cena can act like he's doing people favors but the dude has gone out there many times to steal someone's thunder back after "putting them over". I can't think of any time other than maybe Bryan, where he didn't turn around band get his win back. It's the same tired story with the same tired result.
On top of that, I still can't forgive him for not speaking up at a time when the entire company was molded around him, yet it was pretty clear that it wasn't producing what many would consider a quality product or even something that was moving the needle. To say that you weren't pampered is a joke to say. That's not to say that Cena didn't work hard or do what the company wanted, but there's a point where you could've done something without relinquishing your spot. Maybe I'm just of a different mind, to where if I love my job and love what I do, then I'm going to be vocal about wanting the best for it, even if it means I need to step back or hand over some of the responsibilities I have. That's one of the first steps you have to take as a leader. And again, let's not act like Cena took us into some big wrestling boom. He reaped the benefits more than any other single talent without ever taking a single step to go against the grain. Just another yes man in a company full of yes men.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 9, 2017 22:50:53 GMT -5
"It's not my fault that I cut guys' legs out from under them instead of letting them get momentum. It's their fault for not being as elite as me."
Good Guy John's back.
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,520
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Post by Rican on Jun 9, 2017 22:51:57 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. However, he did wonders for the WWE careers of Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. If you are good enough and hot enough, Cena will do business. I have never felt like Cena buries guys, I think that is bullshit. He doesn't lose to any bum they put up against him, but he doesn't steamroll every guy either. Yeah I agree with this. I've always seen Cena's politics to be doing what he really thinks is best for the company and not necessarily always for him. I agree that most guys who come out of feuds with him looking badly were people who weren't very good to begin with.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 9, 2017 22:56:53 GMT -5
That reads kayfabe as all hell.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 23:04:30 GMT -5
Cena really is this generation's Hogan (minus the drawing ability, mainstream appeal, psychology, etc).
In 20 years Cena will claim that he was supposed to be a member of Wu Tang, and missed a phone call that would have made him a millionaire.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jun 9, 2017 23:06:30 GMT -5
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Post by Citizen Snips on Jun 9, 2017 23:08:59 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. However, he did wonders for the WWE careers of Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. If you are good enough and hot enough, Cena will do business. I have never felt like Cena buries guys, I think that is bullshit. He doesn't lose to any bum they put up against him, but he doesn't steamroll every guy either. In both the Owens and Styles feuds, didn't Cena basically say their initial clean wins over him didn't mean anything and they needed to be men and face him again...and then when he got the win back, they were world-class athletes that only Hustle Loyalty and Respect could have vanquished?
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jun 9, 2017 23:14:38 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. However, he did wonders for the WWE careers of Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. If you are good enough and hot enough, Cena will do business. I have never felt like Cena buries guys, I think that is bullshit. He doesn't lose to any bum they put up against him, but he doesn't steamroll every guy either. In both the Owens and Styles feuds, didn't Cena basically say their initial clean wins over him didn't mean anything and they needed to be men and face him again...and then when he got the win back, they were world-class athletes that only Hustle Loyalty and Respect could have vanquished? Didn't he do that with Bryan as well?, I'm sure he said something like "My arm wasn't 100%, That's why I lost" (Or something like that, It's been ages)
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 9, 2017 23:22:52 GMT -5
In other words, "Don't hate because these jabroni marks couldn't cut the mustard, brother."
Either way, that's Tha God right there. He gonna get his and make sure that he's taken care of. I don't blame him one bit for that. These young boys ain't doing numbers and are bumming it up on TV, that's why Cena is one of the few dudes on WWE TV that I actually give a shit about nowadays.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,141
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2017 23:23:39 GMT -5
Holy hell, just when I'm softening up on John Cena as a whole he turns around and throws this wad of shit in everyone's faces
There are people on this forum who say "You'll all regret when Cena's gone and miss him", not f***ing me. He can go and I'll be "Nah Nah Nahing" him the way out the door.
Over a decade of mediocrity and some of WWE's worst years were with him at the helm of the company and everyone else basically below him with no means to rise above or even get on equal footing, and you wonder why they were unmotivated, and probably still are. Can't wait for the next possible decade with Roman being even worse though, cause the rate that is going, it's set to be worse damage than John could ever do.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jun 9, 2017 23:25:18 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. However, he did wonders for the WWE careers of Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. If you are good enough and hot enough, Cena will do business. I have never felt like Cena buries guys, I think that is bullshit. He doesn't lose to any bum they put up against him, but he doesn't steamroll every guy either. I'm all for protecting guys so that beating them seems like a big deal, but it almost always universally favors Cena every time. If you beat him, he is going to come back and beat you. When the narrative always plays out the exact same way, it doesn't provide anything for the talent. I've said for years if an upcoming talent has any chance to succeed in the long run, they need to stay away from Cena because he feeds on others' momentum to keep himself afloat. The way you should always book a feud is whoever the winner is has all momentum already, so your main priority is the next feud for the loser to keep them relevant. But not John Cena, he's a dead end for your career if you aren't a top guy already. The amount of money this company has wasted on keeping him the status quo while they had other acts that may have also been financially profitable is staggering. And you know what? I find it offensive when someone says that Cena "did wonders" for someone such as Bryan or Punk. That's ridiculous. He was smart enough to get involved so that it looked like he was doing the favor. Bryan was already made before Cena " put him over". Punk just happened to beat the one guy who was universally despised by the other side of the audience. Ryback wasn't mentioned, but again another guy who was perpetually sacrificed because Cena needed something to do. I guess JBL is a patron saint for "doing wonders" for Cena. Because the performer didn't go out of their way to get over themselves. Cena takes no chances with guys. The guys you mentioned putting "over" were guaranteed to not fail without him being involved, so long as the company themselves didn't bury them. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Punk feud, but Cena was still proven right in the end. I didn't care for the Bryan feud though, he was just weaseling himself into a feud with an already white hot babyface.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 9, 2017 23:26:12 GMT -5
I still say he's firmly in character here.
If not, he's clearly fulla shit, and knows he's fulla shit; but this comes off so much like 'Nice Speech' character it's gotta be.
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Post by eJm on Jun 9, 2017 23:27:03 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. So this paragraph right here, no offence to you, is why you have to take off your fan hat when booking shows. Here's the thing about that at its core; I'm not saying any of those guys were going to be big major stars but there were points where each of them were getting a big amount of heel heat, Barrett in particular was getting Cena major cheers at a time when the combined efforts of Shawn Michaels, HHH, Edge and Randy Orton couldn't pull that off. So if you are going to make those guys lose and you get them to that level, you have to at least make them look good for the next person you put them with because if they win, that not only makes the feud looks worse but it makes the guy they lost to look horrible. For example, I'm not a major fan of Grado. The dude gets too much crap but he's not the finest worker in the bunch. If the guy came into my company and was getting major face reactions (and he wasn't injuring anyone obviously), I'd damn sure give the dude a face push for the world title even if I wasn't going to have him win because, to put it bluntly, they've shown they wanted to pay for the guy already, they're going to want to pay more to see if he can win the big one. Sure, we as fans are allowed to have favourites and say others don't deserve to be booked a certain way etc but none of that is justification for getting to be made to look bad by someone if you were setting out to give them a push anyway.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 238,141
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 9, 2017 23:33:15 GMT -5
I think Cena is exactly right. He may not of done any favors for Sandow, Wyatt, and Barrett, but those guys kind of suck in my opinion. However, he did wonders for the WWE careers of Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan. If you are good enough and hot enough, Cena will do business. I have never felt like Cena buries guys, I think that is bullshit. He doesn't lose to any bum they put up against him, but he doesn't steamroll every guy either. Yeah I agree with this. I've always seen Cena's politics to be doing what he really thinks is best for the company and not necessarily always for him. I agree that most guys who come out of feuds with him looking badly were people who weren't very good to begin with. The Nexus Angle was what was right for the company? No seriously burying over ten guys was a great company move where basically none of them escaped? Ok.
And the whole "These guys were never very good to begin with" is such an opinionated thing it's really unfair to state it like you guys are as fact, because it flat out isn't, and doesn't deviate from how bad the overall booking and decisions were for these feuds.
And more than that, Rusev was another he cut the legs out from under. And just about any guy that beat Cena he beat them right back like a petulant spoiled child. So the wins "Cena gave to the boys", really becomes moot when that shit is thrown in. He only accepted dudes into the company when he BEAT them.
None of this shit, was good for the company, and it's been reflective in the ratings dropping more and more every single year. So this argument is really a running into a wall, hard.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jun 9, 2017 23:35:28 GMT -5
This is coming from the same guy who's been known to phone it in when he's booked to lose. His matches with Bryan and Punk being the exceptions. Not the rule. Get the f*** outta here with bullshit Cena. I was just starting to come around to Cena and he goes says this bullshit. Please retire Cena. You won't be missed.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 9, 2017 23:42:10 GMT -5
This isn't me trying to be funny, this is more of an honest question.
How many people did Hogan "make" during his glory days? What about Austin, how many folks did he "make"? Historically, the tippy top babyface has never "made" anybody in WWE. The issue is that they rode with Cena on top for too long and when they finally did try to appoint his successor, they made two awful f***ing choices (Sheamus and Roman Reigns). Get pissy at WWE, don't get pissy at Cena for doing his job.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 9, 2017 23:57:17 GMT -5
And you know what? With how WWE is structured, there ain't never gonna be another #1 top guy or a guy that move buisness.
I mean, for f***'s sake, look at how they put their shows together. Most of their babyfaces are f***ing losers that choke when the pressure is on and come off as so dumb and unbeliveable that most folks couldn't possibly feel sympathetic for them on any real scale. They couldn't protect a damn bowl of jello with their booking. The only guy they protect is, of course, Roman Reigns, the guy that everybody hates.
It don't matter if you got Nexus, Pipebombs, Show-Offs, Cookie Monsters, or whatever the f*** ever. The system is broken. You can't sustain star power with this model. Save your babyfaces!
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