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Post by bmfjules on Jul 16, 2017 9:28:45 GMT -5
Lex Luger was always a guilty pleasure of mine.
He was never a great promo, or great in the ring, but I contend, when he was 'on' anyway, he was far from bad and could be 'carried' to a good or even great match. (Steiners vs Sting/Luger is in my top five tag matches ever, plus matches with Flair, Sting etc...)
His problem to me always seemed to me to be that he was often, as much as various bookers wanted to push him, they never struck while the iron was hot. The best examples I can think of are 1990 when he failed to beat Flair multiple times (Flair refusing at one point to drop the belt, which he promised to Sting) and in 1993 when Luger turned babyface, started riding the Lex Express, slammed Yoko on the Aircraft Carrier and then won a flat countout victory at Summerslam.
Luger did win the WCW title in 91, but turned heel shortly after so never got a run as the top Superman Babyface, and also got a HUGE pop when he beat Hollywood Hogan in 97 (IIRC) for the title on an episode of Nitro only to lose the title right back to him at Road Wild... (As an aside, I've always thought DDP would have been a better choice for this "shock" title win in 97...)
Lexy seems to be victim to the "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" deal with his big babyface pushes. In 1990/91, Sting was the obvious choice to build the company around. In 93/94, even though Vince obviously had a preference for Luger, Bret Hart was the fan's choice for the top guy at the time, and in 97, Luger was again second fiddle to Sting (who at the time was only around in the Rafters) and then once Goldberg got hot the next year, there was really no room left in the title picture for him as a top babyface.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jul 16, 2017 9:40:26 GMT -5
Failing to win the title from Yokozuna hurt him the worst. That post match celebration almost acting as if he did win the title didn't do him any favors either. He was never a top WWF guy after that. His career there was basically dead outside of his team with Bulldog that never really went anywhere. He was always a WCW guy. He didn't have the talent or the personality to stay a top guy in WCW for a long time but he always could be for a little while if they needed someone to fill a spot or if they wanted to mix things up.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 16, 2017 9:47:24 GMT -5
Other. Easily 1988. The blood stoppage at GAB 88 and then him never getting the title from Flair after the Horsemen had kicked him out and beat him down set him up in the mind of fans a they guy who could never win the big one.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 16, 2017 9:47:32 GMT -5
You don't have his initial failures in 1988 against Flair, which should have ushered the NWA into the PPV era but instead did goofy blood stoppage finishes and other stuff that made Luger out to be a choker.
The problem with the 1990 deal is that Sting was already promised the title. Luger was hastily turned face again to challenge Flair and at least you could argue he didn't job in those matches. They mostly went to DQs and schmozz finishes. It would have been possible to just put the title on Luger in 1990, and then Flair regains at GAB 1990, then you build to Sting getting his big win at Starrcade.
The answer here without a doubt is 1993-94. This should have been an easy slam dunk and I'm still baffled as to why he didn't win the title. I mean with Flair you could argue that he kept failing against one of the greatest of all time. But failing to beat Yokozuna, who was essentially your typical 1980s fat heel of the month? After spending the entire summer on a tour bus campaigning for a title shot? I assumed Luger was going to win the title at SS 93 and when he didn't I was just sort of stunned and lost all faith in the guy. That angle is exhibit A in the whole "Money is in the chase" stuff being crap. Luger was a victim of the whole 4-5 PPVs a year thing since now if he didn't get it at SS he'd just get it in Sept. at the next PPV. But back then if he didn't win at SS there was no other PPV until Survivor Series, and even then it was still mostly teams. So really his next actual shot was to win the Rumble, and trying to keep this thing going from Aug. until Jan. 1994 was just too much.
Again, why isn't it possible to put Luger over and then have Yokozuna regain if it isn't working? It could even be at some random house show if you don't want to show everyone Luger jobbing. Then Bret wins the Rumble and gets the title back at WM X.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jul 16, 2017 9:51:34 GMT -5
Yoko
All that build for for jack shit, And that ending was just the shit cherry on the sundae
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Post by bmfjules on Jul 16, 2017 10:24:31 GMT -5
Other. Easily 1988. The blood stoppage at GAB 88 and then him never getting the title from Flair after the Horsemen had kicked him out and beat him down set him up in the mind of fans a they guy who could never win the big one. That should absolutely be on the list. Not sure how that slipped my mind, other than just the fact I started watching around 90' so the memories of the Barry turn aren't as vivid to me as the stuff I actually watched live.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,573
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Post by Renslayer on Jul 16, 2017 10:45:31 GMT -5
I'm still amazed they didn't do it at Summerslam 93. Once you give a dude a bus, you've GOTTA give him the title.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jul 16, 2017 13:05:45 GMT -5
The Yoko one. It killed all his credibility. To be fair though, I'd have booked 1993 wayyyyy differently.
Going off track, red-hot babyface Mr. Perfect wins the Rumble and beats Bret at WM IX. He drops it back to Bret at KOTR. Yokozuna works Hogan at Mania in a special attraction match. Narcissist Luger wins the KOTR and works Bret at SummerSlam. I'd still have Bret win that, but it wouldn't hurt Luger nearly as much as his failed babyface push did.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jul 16, 2017 13:08:22 GMT -5
Count me in for '88. It didn't help that in '89 he was turned heel to feud with Steamboat, which never really took off before Rick quit the company, then turned face again in early '90 because Sting got injured and they didn't have anyone else.
The time to do it was '88. The crowds were nuts for it.
I actually think that Flair losing it to Steamboat hurt Luger in '90. Part of the enthusiasm was wanting to see Flair lose the title for the first time in a while. By '90, they had just gotten that.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Jul 16, 2017 14:18:13 GMT -5
Would Luger winning at SS 93 really have made him though? Would he have gone on to greater heights in the WWE with it? I'm not sure if a face v face match at WMX would have been all that much better. And then how would you have him lose? He doesn't really have any big pinfall or submission losses in the WWE at least to that point...
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 16, 2017 14:34:15 GMT -5
Yoko
He looked like a dick celebrating that countout win, as did all the wrestlers who celebrated with him.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 16, 2017 14:34:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't count the loss to Hogan as being a big deal. Even momentarily derailing the nWo was more than most had managed to that time.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jul 16, 2017 14:35:42 GMT -5
Yoko He looked like a dick celebrating that countout win, as did all the wrestlers who celebrated with him. I was 7 when that happened, Even then I was like "huh it was a countout, Why's he celebrating like that?"
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jul 16, 2017 14:50:15 GMT -5
Misread title as "Which failed title chase hurt Liger more?"
Nothing else to add.
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Post by willywonka666 on Jul 16, 2017 16:57:17 GMT -5
I wasn't watching in 93, but I was in 88 and had he won then, he might have won in 93, the losses in those NWA years hurt his momentum badly.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 16, 2017 20:26:15 GMT -5
Yoko. The whole big build led to him looking like a total goober given the failures. Add that to the fact that he wasn't a fit for the character at all either.
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chrom
Backup Wench
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Post by chrom on Jul 16, 2017 20:53:40 GMT -5
I'll never understand the Flair finish, Flair's screaming in pain as he's being racked as Luger has him up and is in control with no chance for Ric to escape and the Ref believes Luger can't continue. Shouldn't the guy being ripped in two be the bigger concern?
That reminds me of Kerry having The Claw on Lawler who after fighting it has passed out and on the mat and the ref due to blood on Kerry's face calls for the bell. Each time the bell rang the crowd erupted going wild thinking there was a new champion only to be denied and sent home unhappy. Heck isn't the second match is what lead what was left of AWA's fanbase giving up.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 17, 2017 17:55:29 GMT -5
is it coincidence that this question was asked on Cornette's show this week?
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jul 17, 2017 18:03:55 GMT -5
Yoko for all the reasons stated. Celebrating like WW2 just ended and he won it himself when he didn't win the title and now couldn't ever get another shot in kayfabe.
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Post by 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer on Jul 17, 2017 18:09:23 GMT -5
is it coincidence that this question was asked on Cornette's show this week? Unless it's the same guy, then yeah. The drive thru wasn't released until about noon today.
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