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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 12, 2017 20:42:49 GMT -5
Because that's how it works, you only rise to the top if the top guys in the company think you're good enough. It's not as if Cena initially got over on the fan base being unified behind him or something. He did feud with respected guys on his way up and Im sure guys like Eddie, Taker and Angle gave their feedback to Vince too. Especially Taker.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Aug 12, 2017 20:45:06 GMT -5
And that invalidates my opinion? Im not a blind fanboy. The flag match at Battleground was garbage. I just think some fans need to get out of the move execution headspace alittle bit. Its all phony. What matters is the crowd being into the match and following the flow of the thing. I never said it invalidated your opinion, it just makes it unsurprising. And if the crowd is supposed to get into the flow of the match, and he sucks at making his moves flow, doesn't that mean his matches suck? You can like Cena if you want, 90% of the crowd can like Cena if they want, it doesn't change the fact that I think he sucks. Which makes your opinion unsurprising.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 20:46:15 GMT -5
Ziggler is decent at best, he's not great by any means.
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Post by asellus on Aug 12, 2017 21:18:15 GMT -5
I agree with him, Ziggler has never impressed me aside from his bumping and even then I feel he overdoes it sometimes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 22:37:47 GMT -5
I never said it invalidated your opinion, it just makes it unsurprising. And if the crowd is supposed to get into the flow of the match, and he sucks at making his moves flow, doesn't that mean his matches suck? You can like Cena if you want, 90% of the crowd can like Cena if they want, it doesn't change the fact that I think he sucks. Which makes your opinion unsurprising. Ok, what's your point?
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,875
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Post by Dub H on Aug 12, 2017 22:46:27 GMT -5
I know this is gonna be a shit storm but Cena usually has a decent eye for talent. All the people that he reportedly disliked were kinda lame in-ring. Except Ziggler is really good. but overrall yes
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 13, 2017 0:42:37 GMT -5
Not like he was wrong. Ziggler's best matches are as a babyface.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Aug 13, 2017 1:13:54 GMT -5
Because that's how it works, you only rise to the top if the top guys in the company think you're good enough. It's not as if Cena initially got over on the fan base being unified behind him or something. Punks whole point was that he succeeded in spite of the system, and when he emerged from it and tried to point back saying 'sure i survived, but after coming through this insanity, can i suggest a few things' HHH went 'you made it, therefore the system is perfect' the story made that perfectly clear.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,121
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 13, 2017 1:25:13 GMT -5
I wonder sometimes if Dolph would have been better off in tag teams more. He's been used as a singles guy most of his career, and while I think WWE has left him hanging sometimes, I can't agree with people who act like he hasn't been given chances or pushed. Short of his world title run being stupidly booked, he has been given most accolades available to him in the company, very often been in angles, rarely missing PPVs or TV time, etc. He hasn't been some hard luck story, especially given WWE has been all he's ever really had.
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Post by Some Guy on Aug 13, 2017 1:53:00 GMT -5
For the people knocking Ziggler...does everyone forget that when that Elimination Chamber match utterly fell apart, everyone looked completely lost except Dolph who had to call the match for FIVE people at one time just to make it coherent again?
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Aug 13, 2017 2:04:15 GMT -5
I'm no big fan of Cena, but I remember a lot more "good" Cena matches than Ziggler ones. I liked that one match that Ziggler had with Kofi Kingston.
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Capt Lunatic
Unicron
Buttah in mah ass, lollipops in mah mouth
Posts: 3,241
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Aug 13, 2017 3:42:32 GMT -5
For the people knocking Ziggler...does everyone forget that when that Elimination Chamber match utterly fell apart, everyone looked completely lost except Dolph who had to call the match for FIVE people at one time just to make it coherent again? That was embarrassing for all involved. The guys who just locked up because one person was out of place and Dolph for just screaming out moves from across the ring.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 13, 2017 3:50:09 GMT -5
For the people knocking Ziggler...does everyone forget that when that Elimination Chamber match utterly fell apart, everyone looked completely lost except Dolph who had to call the match for FIVE people at one time just to make it coherent again? That was embarrassing for all involved. The guys who just locked up because one person was out of place and Dolph for just screaming out moves from across the ring. Don't forget things like Sheamus purposely locking his pod with his cross... and the commentators not mentioning it... causing even more confusion since so much had already gone wrong in the match people thought it was another botch.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 13, 2017 4:26:13 GMT -5
That was embarrassing for all involved. The guys who just locked up because one person was out of place and Dolph for just screaming out moves from across the ring. Don't forget things like Sheamus purposely locking his pod with his cross... and the commentators not mentioning it... causing even more confusion since so much had already gone wrong in the match people thought it was another botch. This would have won the Golden Snowcone for Worst Match that year, too, if it weren't for that meddling Royal Rumble and its big dog.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Aug 13, 2017 5:11:55 GMT -5
Once upon a time, Ziggler was an amazing athlete and pulling double duty on ppvs. I was a big fan and thought they were really wasting him. Then over time, he rose and fell and floundered. Now I could not care less about him. It's unfortunate.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 13, 2017 9:28:25 GMT -5
Sometimes when I'm finding Cena really entertaining, I need reminded why I actually have disliked him since they first started shoving him down our throats and ruining more talented wrestlers' careers for his own benefit. This is one of those reminders.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 13, 2017 10:33:13 GMT -5
Ziggler is in a weird spot where he wrestles exciting matches as a babyface, but his persona and mic work always comes off heelish. I think he has talent and chariama, but his skill set puts him in a weird spot.
As for Cena, I've never had many issues with how he executes moves. For a power lifter with such a top heavy build, his athleticism is impressive . He doesn't have the muscularity in his legs of an Orton or Okada, so I would rank his dropkics far, far above the ones Erik Watts threw. Plus he's developed into a fantastic storyteller, I love the sense of drama and emotion he brings to his matches.
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Post by The Peoples Elbow on Aug 13, 2017 12:24:30 GMT -5
Clearly Amy Schumer instructed John to bury Ziggles it to the hilt. FTFY
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 13, 2017 14:11:27 GMT -5
Sometimes when I'm finding Cena really entertaining, I need reminded why I actually have disliked him since they first started shoving him down our throats and ruining more talented wrestlers' careers for his own benefit. This is one of those reminders. Uh... how is Vince flipping out that they are wasting Cena on Cena? It even said Vince already didn't like Ziggler before John gave his honest opinion of working with him.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 13, 2017 14:40:06 GMT -5
Sometimes when I'm finding Cena really entertaining, I need reminded why I actually have disliked him since they first started shoving him down our throats and ruining more talented wrestlers' careers for his own benefit. This is one of those reminders. Uh... how is Vince flipping out that they are wasting Cena on Cena? It even said Vince already didn't like Ziggler before John gave his honest opinion of working with him. The idea that he's slumming it with people who are better wrestlers than him and have had to work for opportunities rather than being the McMahons' pet project. This stuff isn't necessarily on Cena, but he's the manifestation of it. And his burial of people he sees as inferior doesn't help.
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