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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2017 21:23:47 GMT -5
For anyone who isn't subscribed to this YouTube channel yet, Real Neat Puro does some really great videos analyzing the minutiae of how NJPW is booked, how it operates, and how there are a lot of things they do that don't always seem obvious from the surface.
He's gotten a chance to do longer videos now thanks to starting a Patreon, and this video goes into how NJPW books its titles. Suffice it to say, he gets into a depth that I had never really considered (or might have noticed but not really processed) with how they do it. But during the first half of this video, he made a great point about Naito's first title win last year, which only lasted a few months before he dropped it back to Okada (starts around the six minute mark of this one, but the whole thing is worth watching):
This was actually a really solid explanation: NJPW wants its top drawer rivalry to be Okada vs. Naito, but they know that when they attempted to pair them previously it didn't work very well. But NJPW has also made a habit of taking big pairings and having them face off at three chief venues: Ryogoku Sumo Hall, Osaka Jo Hall, and Tokyo Dome, their three main big card buildings. Knowing that they wanted Okada/Naito to be a big draw but also acknowledging their previous shortcoming, they used 2016 as the chance to do the first two thirds of that combination: Naito won the title at Invasion Attack at Ryogoku in front of a pro-Naito crowd, then lost it back at Osaka-Jo, a decidedly anti-Naito crowd, allowing both crowds to go home happy.
While I might argue that it still kind of sucked to do Naito's big crowning moment so early given that the end goal is the third match happening at the Dome this coming January, the video reminded me of what I have to remind myself of sometimes: that Japan is NJPW's main market, and a lot of booking decisions must be made with the Japanese audience in mind. Whatever the feeling about Naito only getting a three month reign last year, it really did help a lot to solidify him with the home audience as the new main event player, and the dividends it paid have been handsome. For WK12's main event to be as effective as it will likely be, the title trading last year kind of helped to pave that road, and showed they can trust those guys to sell their biggest buildings.
Again, really recommend the video (and channel), it talks about a lot of other details, too, like how Naito's IC title reign really did serve as an effective parallel track to Okada's heavy title reign, how NJPW paces itself with title defenses, how the strong booking of the main event heavyweights has led to the flaws in booking for the tag and junior divisions, and lots of other interesting angles to look at things from.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 1, 2017 21:31:18 GMT -5
Yeah, in the Western lens, sometimes NJPW seems to make odd calls, but it's been working out for them because it is a different theater, and you can't expect it to play the same way.
I will say it's getting more palatable in the last 2 years, because before the rise of Naito and Omega, and Tanahashi stepping back alongside Shinsuke leaving, stagnation was setting in.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Nov 1, 2017 22:37:49 GMT -5
NJPW's Heavyweight singles' division has been the the gold standard of booking since 2010. Between the Tanahashi/Nakamura rivalry, the rise of Okada, Naito, and Omega, the redemption of Goto and Shibata, and the last gasps of the Third Generation, we've been spoiled by Gedo.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Nov 2, 2017 12:28:06 GMT -5
Yeah, in the Western lens, sometimes NJPW seems to make odd calls, but it's been working out for them because it is a different theater, and you can't expect it to play the same way. I will say it's getting more palatable in the last 2 years, because before the rise of Naito and Omega, and Tanahashi stepping back alongside Shinsuke leaving, stagnation was setting in. What are you talking about? I’m so disappointed we still haven’t gotten Okada/Tanahashi 473. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 2, 2017 12:51:25 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars.
Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 2, 2017 13:39:21 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. Gedo has been very meticulous in the way he's used Okada but this title reign has sort of put Okada back on that path of goodwill because when he beat Naito for the belt people were sick of him. Not because he isn't talented or he doesn't deliver but because Gedo seemed to not be giving anyone else consideration for the belt but obviously it was the smart move all around. You put the title on a hot Naito and establish him again while now Okada has an all time great title reign and while Omega/Okada had some outstanding matches, Okada rival was always going to be Naito |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 13:41:58 GMT -5
His and Showbuckles videos are outstanding. They give a really reasoned and well made perspective on NJPW.
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Post by corndog on Nov 2, 2017 17:24:40 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. The great part of New Japan is Gedo's booking helps make stars, but at the same time if they aren't up for the spotlight, they go back down. Okada's current title reign is incredible and he proved to be the champion he was booked to be. Others have had or made opportunities and if successful they were built up. A great example, El Desperado's brilliant run in the BOSJ this year did not go unnoticed and earned him a title shot. Evil was given a great opportunity in the G1 and shined. Juice was definitely booked underneath in the G1, but he did so well and was rewarded with another title shot. Basically Gedo's brass rings are attainable and while only one or two at best can be "the man", there are still spots in the main event/upper midcard that can be earned. The big difference between Gedo and WWE, is Gedo finds way to make you care about what is happening underneath the champion and makes many contenders believable. New Japan has levels and with the right booking, a guy from the upper mid-card can easily be inserted into the main event with a few key wins. A great Real Neat Puro video reflecting this is the one on Ishii. After watching this, I feel like Ishii is due for some sort of "reward". Possibly an intercontinental title reign. The main issue will be timing, as the IC title in New Japan is a true main event title that headlines major shows. But I feel Ishii has proven he can handle the spot and I actually think the fans would support it. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 2, 2017 18:30:04 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. The great part of New Japan is Gedo's booking helps make stars, but at the same time if they aren't up for the spotlight, they go back down. Okada's current title reign is incredible and he proved to be the champion he was booked to be. Others have had or made opportunities and if successful they were built up. A great example, El Desperado's brilliant run in the BOSJ this year did not go unnoticed and earned him a title shot. Evil was given a great opportunity in the G1 and shined. Juice was definitely booked underneath in the G1, but he did so well and was rewarded with another title shot. Basically Gedo's brass rings are attainable and while only one or two at best can be "the man", there are still spots in the main event/upper midcard that can be earned. The big difference between Gedo and WWE, is Gedo finds way to make you care about what is happening underneath the champion and makes many contenders believable. New Japan has levels and with the right booking, a guy from the upper mid-card can easily be inserted into the main event with a few key wins. A great Real Neat Puro video reflecting this is the one on Ishii. After watching this, I feel like Ishii is due for some sort of "reward". Possibly an intercontinental title reign. The main issue will be timing, as the IC title in New Japan is a true main event title that headlines major shows. But I feel Ishii has proven he can handle the spot and I actually think the fans would support it. Hell, you can say Juice whole year of being built was thanks to his performance against CODY at Wrestle Kingdom. What was supposed to be some sort of a showcase for Cody ended up being a coming out party for Juice Robinson |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 2, 2017 18:52:23 GMT -5
As far as major companies out there, New Japan is what I hold as the gold standard for wrestling as a written medium. The attention to detail and continuity that Gedo pays is outstanding, and he knows how to pay to the factors of his audience while reaching the desired outcome. Any good writer can make an audience react like he wants them to, and I'd say the fact Vince crams widely rejected things in over and over without any grace speaks to him being not a good writer at all. So many moving pieces in play with New Japan keep stories running on and being told, adapting audience reaction and things like who crowds side with as elements to write around while handling it well. Everything is booked with care from the top down and guys outside of the top handful can feel important within their spheres.
Vince and Gedo are both pushing their crushes to be the greatesterest thing in pro wrestling ever, and it's not just hipster contrarianism that keeps people yammering on about Okada while shaking their heads at Roman.
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Post by MrElijah on Nov 2, 2017 20:17:10 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. Gedo realizes how to build: you've got an Ace, but an Ace is only as good as his supporting cast. Vince just focusing on Roman, while cutting the legs of others/Brand-First Mentality. Hogan and Flair were the Aces of the 80s in North America. We remember their greatness but their supporting cast was/is amazing: Randy Savage, Dusty, Dibiase, Andre, The Horsemen, Heenan Family, Magnum TA, Honky Tonk Man, Jake Roberts, Rock N Roll Express. Now all of those names weren't Main Event but they felt like big deals because of presentation. Something sorely lacking in today's WWE. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 2, 2017 20:34:25 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. Gedo realizes how to build: you've got an Ace, but an Ace is only as good as his supporting cast. Vince just focusing on Roman, while cutting the legs of others/Brand-First Mentality. Hogan and Flair were the Aces of the 80s in North America. We remember their greatness but their supporting cast was/is amazing: Randy Savage, Dusty, Dibiase, Andre, The Horsemen, Heenan Family, Magnum TA, Honky Tonk Man, Jake Roberts, Rock N Roll Express. Now all of those names weren't Main Event but they felt like big deals because of presentation. Something sorely lacking in today's WWE. And that's to say nothing of the casts that aren't necessarily supporting them, but are still presented as important parts of their show. There's a place for the old-timers in the undercard tag matches, there's the tag divisions that certainly have involvement from the major factions but also have independent groups involved, there's the junior division that has its own ace and contenders and supporting cast... The whole show has a strong understanding of who is where, and it doesn't make those places feel like something insignificant for not being the main event. KUSHIDA as the ace of the juniors division is presented as a star in ways that WWE's cruiserweight champion has never been. The G1 is seen as the most important tournament the company puts on, but World Tag League, Best of the Super Juniors, and the Super Jr. Tag Tournament all have their places and importance without just being "the thing for people who aren't Okada to do". Like the benefit to presenting your ace as a star instead of the star is huge, but when you create a show meant to make everyone on it important, you don't run into the problems of everything being about your ace all the time and everyone leading up in the end to making him look good. Naito/Tanahashi at WK last year wasn't meant to make Naito ready to lose to Okada at this WK, it was a match meant to continue those guys' stories and keep the show moving along. WWE had to make a whole separate show and cut their roster in half to let someone not named Roman be important. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 2, 2017 20:37:28 GMT -5
Gedo's a wrestling genius, honestly. It's one thing to not care about some of the stuff he does but from a business standpoint, the results can't be argued against. He knows how to make stars. Dave Meltzer said this and it's kinda obvious but it did get me thinking. Vince chose Roman Reigns to be the face of his company. Gedo chose Okada. Which one actually worked? And that's not meant to be an outright burial of Roman as a performer but highlighting the difference in the presentation and booking. Gedo has been very meticulous in the way he's used Okada but this title reign has sort of put Okada back on that path of goodwill because when he beat Naito for the belt people were sick of him. Not because he isn't talented or he doesn't deliver but because Gedo seemed to not be giving anyone else consideration for the belt but obviously it was the smart move all around. You put the title on a hot Naito and establish him again while now Okada has an all time great title reign and while Omega/Okada had some outstanding matches, Okada rival was always going to be Naito Even when people were getting tired of Okada you could see where they were going, and it made sense. Plus Okada has never been made to look strong at the expense of everybody else. Even when he had a defense you knew he wasn't going to win, in the lead up he did enough to have you interested and he did look vulnerable. Plus, as this guy and Showbuckle have both put in their videos, New Japan does a good job of making their titles mean something. The only one that really doesn't feel important is the Junior Tag titles (and that's mostly just because of the lack of interesting teams) , but the birth of Roppongi 3k has brought new life. But it's also little things. Look at the rise of Juice Robinson. He was treated as nothing since his arrival. His work gets him momentum, and him pinning Goto in a multi man match was enough to get him a small program for the NEVER title which had fans interested. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 2, 2017 20:44:33 GMT -5
Gedo has been very meticulous in the way he's used Okada but this title reign has sort of put Okada back on that path of goodwill because when he beat Naito for the belt people were sick of him. Not because he isn't talented or he doesn't deliver but because Gedo seemed to not be giving anyone else consideration for the belt but obviously it was the smart move all around. You put the title on a hot Naito and establish him again while now Okada has an all time great title reign and while Omega/Okada had some outstanding matches, Okada rival was always going to be Naito Even when people were getting tired of Okada you could see where they were going, and it made sense. Plus Okada has never been made to look strong at the expense of everybody else. Even when he had a defense you knew he wasn't going to win, in the lead up he did enough to have you interested and he did look vulnerable. It helps that Okada is such a good performer that he adjust to his opponents and wrestles in their style while still always adding his usual wild finishes. His matches feel different (outside of the wild finishes) because he works with many different people and it takes a special talent to get as many good matches out of majority of your opponents Okada also keeps his cocky streak so the times he get his ass whopped you want to see it happen but he's such a good babyface you always pop for his comeback |
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Nov 2, 2017 20:50:14 GMT -5
Also, as an aside, major props to Real Neat Puro's Youtube channel. He's doin' God's work breaking down NJPW for the casual/newbie audiences. I've really enjoy his work/found it really informative the last while.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 4, 2017 20:50:39 GMT -5
Gedo realizes how to build: you've got an Ace, but an Ace is only as good as his supporting cast. Vince just focusing on Roman, while cutting the legs of others/Brand-First Mentality. Hogan and Flair were the Aces of the 80s in North America. We remember their greatness but their supporting cast was/is amazing: Randy Savage, Dusty, Dibiase, Andre, The Horsemen, Heenan Family, Magnum TA, Honky Tonk Man, Jake Roberts, Rock N Roll Express. Now all of those names weren't Main Event but they felt like big deals because of presentation. Something sorely lacking in today's WWE. And that's to say nothing of the casts that aren't necessarily supporting them, but are still presented as important parts of their show. There's a place for the old-timers in the undercard tag matches, there's the tag divisions that certainly have involvement from the major factions but also have independent groups involved, there's the junior division that has its own ace and contenders and supporting cast... The whole show has a strong understanding of who is where, and it doesn't make those places feel like something insignificant for not being the main event. KUSHIDA as the ace of the juniors division is presented as a star in ways that WWE's cruiserweight champion has never been. The G1 is seen as the most important tournament the company puts on, but World Tag League, Best of the Super Juniors, and the Super Jr. Tag Tournament all have their places and importance without just being "the thing for people who aren't Okada to do". Like the benefit to presenting your ace as a star instead of the star is huge, but when you create a show meant to make everyone on it important, you don't run into the problems of everything being about your ace all the time and everyone leading up in the end to making him look good. Naito/Tanahashi at WK last year wasn't meant to make Naito ready to lose to Okada at this WK, it was a match meant to continue those guys' stories and keep the show moving along. WWE had to make a whole separate show and cut their roster in half to let someone not named Roman be important. It helps that NJPW doesn't operate by the booking style of "Whenever Okada's not on screen, everybody should be asking 'Where's Okada?'". Yes, the top guys go at the end of the shows and as such will likely get the most mic time in the ring, but it's never overwhelming, and using them that way means they don't wear out their welcome. Meantime you can often watch Raw knowing you'll see the main top guy at the start of the show, throughout the night in backstage segments, and in a featured match, taking a lot of oxygen out of the room for angles involving other wrestlers. It's funny to think of how Hulkamania era WWF seemed to get this idea on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge, not having Hogan and the other tip-top guys appear in the ring on TV too often and not giving them a tremendous amount of extra promo time compared to others on the card. Yes, fans were waiting for and anticipating the biggest stars appearing, but plenty of room was left for others to be featured in matches and promos. Hell, mid-80s NWA shows were dominated by Dusty vs. Flair, and they'd get plenty of promo time and show-ending brawls and whatnot, but that feud helped to keep up Magnum vs. Tully, made room to elevate the Road Warriors, and still managed to let a lot of other stuff breathe on the show. Just so, you don't spend a NJPW card waiting impatiently for the match you're watching to end because you figure it's not important compared with a cut to the back to see whatever Roman or whomever is doing in front of the invisible cameraman. I know part of that is NJPW's more sports-like overall presentation style that WWE probably feels it can't ape without turning some people off, but there are just basic Pro Wrestling 101 things that could bring that feel back of every match having some sort of importance. NJPW does that, and it makes their titles matter more even when there are challenges where you know the champ isn't going to lose (e.g. Omega's first few US title defenses). Even the most passing, exhibition-feeling matchup serves a small purpose in a bigger design, something WWE can't really do so long as they keep booking so much of their material on the fly. |
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