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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 3, 2018 4:17:43 GMT -5
Oh yeah, even more people would be angry if Finn was fed to Brock instead of Finn being fed to the guy who's being fed to Brock while Finn f***s around with the Miztourage. For Finn fans the present outcome is damn near a dream. Exactly- at least by not putting Finn with this group, he's the one guy who hasn't been fed to Brock to fatten him up for the slaughter to Roman. This should be what people want, because it means going into the 2018-19 season Finn remains viable for future storylines with Roman that aren't just "he got squashed by Brock, and Roman squashed Brock, so how can this guy have a prayer against Roman?" Not even remotely. Losing to Brock doesn't have to make someone looking bad. Getting outright squashed by Kane does. You're not protected by being further down the food chain if you're being fed to the title challenger. What about "this guy got f***ed destroyed by Kane in a match so embarrassing this board went into meltdown" doesn't bring even more problems than losing to Brock? And unlike your mention of possible squashes involving Brock and Roman, the Kane match actually was a squash.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Jan 3, 2018 17:23:30 GMT -5
Exactly- at least by not putting Finn with this group, he's the one guy who hasn't been fed to Brock to fatten him up for the slaughter to Roman. This should be what people want, because it means going into the 2018-19 season Finn remains viable for future storylines with Roman that aren't just "he got squashed by Brock, and Roman squashed Brock, so how can this guy have a prayer against Roman?" Not even remotely. Losing to Brock doesn't have to make someone looking bad. Getting outright squashed by Kane does. You're not protected by being further down the food chain if you're being fed to the title challenger. What about "this guy got f***ed destroyed by Kane in a match so embarrassing this board went into meltdown" doesn't bring even more problems than losing to Brock? And unlike your mention of possible squashes involving Brock and Roman, the Kane match actually was a squash. Uh...no... that wasn't a squash. Just because he lost, doesn't make it a squash.
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Post by thegame415 on Jan 3, 2018 17:28:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't consider Kane a mid carder in the Attitude Era.
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The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
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Post by The Blue Nova on Jan 3, 2018 17:49:10 GMT -5
I remember on austins podcast. Vince complaining how The wrestlers now do not want to grab the brass ring. Well how can they or even be inspired to. When they are not given a chance to. or bust there buts to get over, only for the legs to be cut from under them... Lets face it there is no brass ring in the WWE. Vince pushes who he wants. no matter if they are not over or in there 50s.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2018 19:43:23 GMT -5
Vince books for himself. No long term plan or vision.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jan 3, 2018 20:39:01 GMT -5
I might start phoning that weeks' towns cops whenever Kane appears on RAW because if they don't arrest him they'll arrest me and then at least I wont be able to see Kane wrestle in prison
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 3, 2018 21:43:55 GMT -5
First, I just want to say Kane is awesome, but he's nearly 50 and has been more or less the same character in the WWE for 3 different decades now. Kane is working full-time at 50, and that is pretty impressive, but I don't think anyone is really paying to see him main event anymore. But why on earth does Vince think Kane is more marketable than Finn? It could easily be Finn in this match, and the match would probably work way better with Finn in his place. Kane is awesome, but he is 50 and been on TV consecutively for over 20 years now. The fact that a mid-card wrestler from the attitude era is still a cornerstone character for the WWE is just sad. Push someone new This is the equivalent of Sgt Slaughter main eventing against Austin in '99, instead of developing The Rock/HHH The age of the main agents in '98 (Patterson, Brisco, Slaughter) who were more or less forced into retirement by Vince is actually younger than 1/3rd of the talent who were on Wrestlemania last year. Not saying I disagree with your main point, but not sure on that last paragraph. Slaughter was 50 in 1998, Patterson was 57 and Brisco 52. I wouldn't say 1/3 of last year's Wrestlemania card was older than that.
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Kyn
Don Corleone
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Post by Kyn on Jan 3, 2018 22:39:23 GMT -5
I have a deep (and apparently shameful) love for Kane. That aside, I think Vince has reached an age where his thinking is very set, and he doesn't want to take chances, he wants to go with what he knows works. The problem is, he's looking at what worked 10-20 years ago and expecting it to still work now, and it doesn't. In Vince's mind, why take a chance pushing an unknown quantity like Balor, when he 'knows' Kane works? People liked him decades ago, they'll like him now. And when forced to push a new guy he picks Roman, the closest thing he has to the Rock, because the Rock worked. So again, in his head, we're wrong for not liking Roman, because we liked the Rock, goddammit.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 7, 2018 11:23:26 GMT -5
I think that he’s willing to push younger talent, for example Jinder, Roman, Corbin, and so on. But the deal with Kane is that I think Vince feels that his time is running out, due to his age and possible political career. He probably has a real Sense of loyalty to him for being one of the last attitude Era guys that never threatened to jump ship to WCW, and it’s been said that he’s never been one to push for title runs. Plus virtually nobody has ever said anything bad about the guy.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 7, 2018 11:32:00 GMT -5
I remember on austins podcast. Vince complaining how The wrestlers now do not want to grab the brass ring. Well how can they or even be inspired to. When they are not given a chance to. or bust there buts to get over, only for the legs to be cut from under them... Lets face it there is no brass ring in the WWE. Vince pushes who he wants. no matter if they are not over or in there 50s. The brass ring phrase is such a load of crap. How many times have we seen wrestlers attempt to grab the brass ring only for them to be de-pushed? I seem to remember Ziggler, Ryder, Punk, Bryan, and even Ambrose to an extent attempt to grab the brass ring only to have their momentum shifted at their hottest. I bring up Ambrose because his earlier feud with Rollins was so intense, brutal, unique, and hot that I literally thought we were looking at the next Austin honestly. Ambrose literally had that everyman look with the sweaty tank top shirt, worn down jeans, and looking completely unkempt that he just looked and acted the part, along with the fans buying into his character. Then they watered him down and made him into a comedic buffoon rather than an unpredictable threat. So that whole "brass ring" phrase Vince can literally shove up his ass.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 7, 2018 11:35:32 GMT -5
I have a deep (and apparently shameful) love for Kane. That aside, I think Vince has reached an age where his thinking is very set, and he doesn't want to take chances, he wants to go with what he knows works. The problem is, he's looking at what worked 10-20 years ago and expecting it to still work now, and it doesn't. In Vince's mind, why take a chance pushing an unknown quantity like Balor, when he 'knows' Kane works? People liked him decades ago, they'll like him now. And when forced to push a new guy he picks Roman, the closest thing he has to the Rock, because the Rock worked. So again, in his head, we're wrong for not liking Roman, because we liked the Rock, goddammit. The irony is people would like Roman if Vince just backed off and let him be himself. He ruined Roman the moment he had Roman talking, making jokes, and watering him down from being the badass silent enforcer. Fans LOVED the Roman that walked through the crowd, didn't talk, looked badass, and you knew when he stepped in the ring someone was getting their ass kicked. That's the Roman fans wanted to get behind.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2018 11:42:58 GMT -5
There has really never been anything like it. Kane main eventing is like someone who main evented in 1979 main eventing this in 1999. I know in other promotions it has been done a lot, but in WWE it is just Kane, Undertaker, HHH, and HBK. Pretty elite group.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 7, 2018 13:30:09 GMT -5
Kane is "main eventing" the Rumble so both Braun and Lesnar don't have to eat a pin. And it's not just Lesnar v Lane because nobody wants Kane in a one in o e title match
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Post by facethatrunstheplace on Jan 7, 2018 13:36:19 GMT -5
This is the equivalent of Sgt Slaughter main eventing against Austin in '99, instead of developing The Rock/HHH Slaughter had a PPV match with HHH in '99. Actually that match happened at D-Generation X: In Your House which was in december 1997.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 7, 2018 13:38:43 GMT -5
This is the equivalent of Sgt Slaughter main eventing against Austin in '99, instead of developing The Rock/HHH Slaughter had a PPV match with HHH in '99. Holy crap. They pulled slaughter out for a match during the attitude era? I wonder if this was DX HHH vs. Slaughter or Corporate HHH or The Game HHH. Need to find this match.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jan 7, 2018 13:46:29 GMT -5
Kane is "main eventing" the Rumble so both Braun and Lesnar don't have to eat a pin. And it's not just Lesnar v Lane because nobody wants Kane in a one in o e title match Yeah on this occasion I can live with it because you know Kane's taking the pin and Braun still gets the boost of the title match. It's what older guys past their prime should be doing. The problem is, this a rare case and usually the older guys are the ones being protected.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
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Post by EyeofTyr on Jan 7, 2018 13:47:17 GMT -5
I remember on austins podcast. Vince complaining how The wrestlers now do not want to grab the brass ring. Well how can they or even be inspired to. When they are not given a chance to. or bust there buts to get over, only for the legs to be cut from under them... Lets face it there is no brass ring in the WWE. Vince pushes who he wants. no matter if they are not over or in there 50s. The brass ring phrase is such a load of crap. How many times have we seen wrestlers attempt to grab the brass ring only for them to be de-pushed? I seem to remember Ziggler, Ryder, Punk, Bryan, and even Ambrose to an extent attempt to grab the brass ring only to have their momentum shifted at their hottest. I bring up Ambrose because his earlier feud with Rollins was so intense, brutal, unique, and hot that I literally thought we were looking at the next Austin honestly. Ambrose literally had that everyman look with the sweaty tank top shirt, worn down jeans, and looking completely unkempt that he just looked and acted the part, along with the fans buying into his character. Then they watered him down and made him into a comedic buffoon rather than an unpredictable threat. So that whole "brass ring" phrase Vince can literally shove up his ass. To paraphrase one of the men you mentioned that said something that's rung true for decades now, "I've grabbed every imaginary brass ring Vince McMahon can make." And, it's true. One of the WWE's biggest issues in any era, but especially the past two decades, has been Vince's ever moving the goal post on guys. "Oh, you want to be the man? You got to do this." "...Oh, you did that?! God dammit, I meant you have to do THIS!" "What?! What do you mean you did that too, you son of a bitch! Well, only the one true guy could possibly do this!" "...You managed that too? ... Dunn, we got to cut this guy's legs out from under him."Partially I chalk it up to something that's even leaked into the in universe canon over the years and genuinely become a character trait of the Mr. McMahon character too. Abandonment issues. Vince by all accounts has had them since childhood and it's reflected in how he handles his talent, all the moreso after certain talents have walked out on the company. For as much as some people harped on Bret Hart's complaints about the WWE after the screwjob, if you ever heard Vince's side, he sounded even more like a jilted lover than Bret did. Nevermind the Hogan situation and how incredibly unhealthy psychologically that seemed to be for Vince for decades.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 7, 2018 14:24:42 GMT -5
Slaughter had a PPV match with HHH in '99. Actually that match happened at D-Generation X: In Your House which was in december 1997. You're right, dunno how I got my hairs crossed on that one. Holy crap. They pulled slaughter out for a match during the attitude era? I wonder if this was DX HHH vs. Slaughter or Corporate HHH or The Game HHH. Need to find this match. It was DX HHH vs Slaughter - it was during the time when Slaughter was still the babyface commissioner having to deal with DX doing things like put on the masks with windshield wipers and such. Shortly after, he'd turn heel and become a McMahon stooge.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 7, 2018 14:26:34 GMT -5
Actually that match happened at D-Generation X: In Your House which was in december 1997. You're right, dunno how I got my hairs crossed on that one. Holy crap. They pulled slaughter out for a match during the attitude era? I wonder if this was DX HHH vs. Slaughter or Corporate HHH or The Game HHH. Need to find this match. It was DX HHH vs Slaughter - it was during the time when Slaughter was still the babyface commissioner having to deal with DX doing things like put on the masks with windshield wipers and such. Shortly after, he'd turn heel and become a McMahon stooge. Damn you got my hopes up man. Because I know Patterson and Brisco worked matches in 19999 and 2000 I thought Slaughter did too!
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Post by Hickster on Jan 7, 2018 14:32:34 GMT -5
Slaughter had a PPV match with HHH in '99. Holy crap. They pulled slaughter out for a match during the attitude era? I wonder if this was DX HHH vs. Slaughter or Corporate HHH or The Game HHH. Need to find this match. Sarge wanted revenge for DX stealing his tank the night they destroyed WCW.
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