Steamboat on what he'd change about WM3 match

[héad.casé]

"I didn't realize it then, it was only later, that with the number of guys coming up and talking about the match, and I'm going back years later, and how we kind of changed the blueprint of how you put together a match because of all the false finishes in that match. And the false finishes to me is what made it a championship match. He's trying to hold onto the belt and I'm trying to win it from him. I think if my memory serves me, we had 21 false finishes in a match that went about 17 minutes. The hard part is when you're caught up in all the action, all the drama, and the story that you're trying to tell, is trying to remember 21 false finishes in the sequence that it was laid out. I was really stressed out before that match. I kept going through the match and all of the false finishes over and over and over in my mind, but, God, that was hard to do because customarily you would understand back then, a lot of the matches, we called it in the ring. Nothing was really set up from A to Z like this one. We took notes on a legal pad, a yellow legal pad, and, God, I can't remember how many steps we had, but once we got the match down, I'll give you an example, at night, I would get with Randy and say, 'okay, number 32 is this, this, and this. Tell me the rest of the match.' And he would go, 'number 33 is this, this, and this. 34 is…' and we would quiz each other back and forth, back and forth, just so we would have it."

"If I was to add something to that match, it would have been this one moment to which I would have come off the top rope with my dive, which was my finish and I would have had a 1-2 count and Randy kick out just so the fans could have a little curve ball thrown in there." Steamboat explained, "back then, you never really prostituted your finish, but I think it would have fit. It would've worked. You see it sometimes in the main events today, a guy's finish, especially with two top guys, and the other guy kick out only later on in the match to be caught in the finish again and for it to work."

www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0503/639564/ricky-steamboat-reveals-the-one-thing-hed-change-in-his/

[Hit Girl]

Incredible perfectionism. Amazing attention to detail.

[Deleted]

“Back then you never really prostituted your finish” lol

[Deleted]

May 3, 2018 15:42:13 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

"The hard part is when you're caught up in all the action, all the drama, and the story that you're trying to tell, is trying to remember 21 false finishes in the sequence that it was laid out. I was really stressed out before that match. I kept going through the match and all of the false finishes over and over and over in my mind, but, God, that was hard to do because customarily you would understand back then, a lot of the matches, we called it in the ring. Nothing was really set up from A to Z like this one. We took notes on a legal pad, a yellow legal pad, and, God, I can't remember how many steps we had, but once we got the match down, I'll give you an example, at night, I would get with Randy and say, 'okay, number 32 is this, this, and this. Tell me the rest of the match.' And he would go, 'number 33 is this, this, and this. 34 is…' and we would quiz each other back and forth, back and forth, just so we would have it."

Welcome to 98% of pro wrestling in 2018. Execpt without the legal pad.

[Hot Noodle Truck]

I know some people hate that guys will lay out matches like this but Savage was a master at what he did. This is one the few matches from that time that I can watch today and still get caught up and invested in. Two dudes in their prime just doing wonderful work.

[Aceorton]

Point of order: Is every 2-count a false finish? I think of false finishes as being the moments when the crowd truly believes the match is OVER, and then it isn't. Savage-Steamboat may have had 21 two-counts, but only a few of those (e.g. the chop off the top where the crowd prematurely lost its shit; a couple of the roll-ups and reversals; Savage's elbow with no ref to count the pin) were actually false finishes.

[johnnyk9]

they both listened to each other very well

["Playboy" Don Douglas]

I'm a big fan of both guys, but I have never really liked this match. I guess it's the same reason I can't get into so many current matches. If you have 22 false finishes, none of them are false finishes. They're just a bunch of two counts.

[lildude8218]

Yeah, every 2-count isn't necessarily a false finish.

[David-Arquette was in WCW 2000]

After years of hype I finally watched this match a few years back and was pretty underwhelmed. It WAS very ahead of it's time and it's a solid match, but a lot of people still see this as the best Wrestlemania match of all time. There are many, many others that have it beat though, both from a technical standpoint and from sheer spectacle. It's all personal opinion, of course, but I wouldn't put this anywhere near a top ten.

[Deleted]

May 4, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5 David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 said:

After years of hype I finally watched this match a few years back and was pretty underwhelmed. It WAS very ahead of it's time and it's a solid match, but a lot of people still see this as the best Wrestlemania match of all time. There are many, many others that have it beat though, both from a technical standpoint and from sheer spectacle. It's all personal opinion, of course, but I wouldn't put this anywhere near a top ten.

I think that has to be viewed through the lens of 1987 more than anything. Really good match, but in 1987 it was mind blowing for the WWF. Of course the in ring aspect won’t compare to something more recent with nonstop action.

[EyeofTyr]

Honestly, as much as I stand by that on general calling it in the ring works better for some talent, I think it's not as black and white as a lot of people feel. Some guys I feel work better calling it in the ring, some guys I think need the prematch set-up. Or more accurately work best with it.

I think it's a testament that it's not so black and white that DDP & Savage, two men notorious for the prematch set-up, have some of the greatest matches arguably in the sport and I feel in a lot of ways their matches have aged more gracefully than a lot of their contemporaries that called it in the ring.

[GuyOfOwnage]

May 4, 2018 17:55:36 GMT -5 EyeofTyr said:

Honestly, as much as I stand by that on general calling it in the ring works better for some talent, I think it's not as black and white as a lot of people feel. Some guys I feel work better calling it in the ring, some guys I think need the prematch set-up. Or more accurately work best with it.

I think it's a testament that it's not so black and white that DDP & Savage, two men notorious for the prematch set-up, have some of the greatest matches arguably in the sport and I feel in a lot of ways their matches have aged more gracefully than a lot of their contemporaries that called it in the ring.

I think being able to call a match on the fly is a skill every talent needs, even if it's not something they always use. Say you pre-plan a match and for one reason or another, you start to lose the audience. You need to know how to change things up on the fly to get them back into it, instead of continuing along the same path that wasn't working.

[somsta]

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen someone mistakenly refer to this match as a 30 minute or 45 minute match. Shows how much was packed into it but none of it seemed rushed or pointless.

[evilone]

Back then matches like these were very few and in between. It was a prototype for many future main events to come.

[corndog]

May 4, 2018 17:43:57 GMT -5 @akeemresurrection said:

May 4, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5 David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 said:

After years of hype I finally watched this match a few years back and was pretty underwhelmed. It WAS very ahead of it's time and it's a solid match, but a lot of people still see this as the best Wrestlemania match of all time. There are many, many others that have it beat though, both from a technical standpoint and from sheer spectacle. It's all personal opinion, of course, but I wouldn't put this anywhere near a top ten.

I think that has to be viewed through the lens of 1987 more than anything. Really good match, but in 1987 it was mind blowing for the WWF. Of course the in ring aspect won’t compare to something more recent with nonstop action.

Yeah, compared to everything else you saw in the WWF at the time, this match was mind blowing. I just remember the first time I rented Wrestlemania III, mostly looking forward to Hogan and Andre(which sucked) and watching this match not expecting what I ended up seeing.

[Deleted]

May 4, 2018 17:43:57 GMT -5 @akeemresurrection said:

May 4, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5 David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 said:

After years of hype I finally watched this match a few years back and was pretty underwhelmed. It WAS very ahead of it's time and it's a solid match, but a lot of people still see this as the best Wrestlemania match of all time. There are many, many others that have it beat though, both from a technical standpoint and from sheer spectacle. It's all personal opinion, of course, but I wouldn't put this anywhere near a top ten.

I think that has to be viewed through the lens of 1987 more than anything. Really good match, but in 1987 it was mind blowing for the WWF. Of course the in ring aspect won’t compare to something more recent with nonstop action.

It happened a little before my time, but I do feel like it's one of those "you had to have been there/watched it live" matches. That said, it's still excellent. I guess it's kinda like the first Black Sabbath album or something.It sounds great in 2018, but I can only imagine what it must've been like when it first came out.

[Reflecto]

May 4, 2018 17:43:57 GMT -5 @akeemresurrection said:

May 4, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5 David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 said:

After years of hype I finally watched this match a few years back and was pretty underwhelmed. It WAS very ahead of it's time and it's a solid match, but a lot of people still see this as the best Wrestlemania match of all time. There are many, many others that have it beat though, both from a technical standpoint and from sheer spectacle. It's all personal opinion, of course, but I wouldn't put this anywhere near a top ten.

I think that has to be viewed through the lens of 1987 more than anything. Really good match, but in 1987 it was mind blowing for the WWF. Of course the in ring aspect won’t compare to something more recent with nonstop action.

Even in the lens of 1987, it still didn't work as well because of a glaring flaw in the match:

The whole reason Ricky Steamboat and Randy Savage were feuding was that in 1986 during a match, Randy Savage used a ringbell on Steamboat to crush his larynx. This required Steamboat to be out of action for months in kayfabe, even learning how to speak again.

This led to the Wrestlemania III match where Steamboat would get his revenge, for a serious larynx/throat injury that nearly ended his career, mind you, and meant that Steamboat was going into this match with Savage with a giant, glaring bullseye on his neck due to his severely weakened throat/larynx from this brutal injury.


...and yet, with this storyline going into play: Savage didn't work Steamboat's neck in the match. There were only a couple inconsequential moments where Savage even attacked Steamboat's neck, much less worked the neck.

With how acrobatic and high-flying the match was for 1987, it would be hard to use more working the neck in the match, but for a storyline where the whole crux of it was "Steamboat's throat was badly injured by Savage to a point it nearly ended his career", not working the neck (and its subsequent "he's trying to attack the throat again" storyline reason) was a DAMNING blow for the match.

[Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV]

"Well, um, I would have added thumbtacks.."

[Mozenrath]

May 5, 2018 2:12:53 GMT -5 Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV said:

"Well, um, I would have added thumbtacks.."

"George wanted to use glass lighttubes, but we couldn't source any. It haunts me to this day."