|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on May 20, 2018 3:28:53 GMT -5
It was in MSG which made it a mainstream big deal Except it wasn't. No one outside the wrestling bubble gave a crap. There were no reports of it in the newspapers the next day. No entertainment news show mentioned it that week. The internet did not exist like it does now for it to spread. Nobody cared. |
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 20, 2018 3:31:20 GMT -5
Not for nothing but WWE released a DVD of Taker’s WrestleMania matches as well. I'd say Hogan made Undertaker's character look bad despite losing him to him and it was Shawn Michaels at HIAC that elevated Undertaker into a much bigger star. Shawn Michaels was the guy who beat Bret Hart, Diesel, Vader and afterwards he was selling for Undertaker like no other in there 1997 feud which gave Undertaker that elevation he needed after Hogan messing it up. I'd say Shawn Michaels was the biggest star of the 90's up until Steve Austin won the title. How many of those Manias, was Shawn in the marquee match? How many of those Manias was it Shawn's match front and center selling the show? Just because WWE says something, doesn't mean it's true. Wrestlemania was built on the back of Hulk Hogan, he's Mr Wrestlemania as far as I'm concerned. The WWE likes to say that DX started the Attitude Era, when Goldust had debut 2 years earlier, and was the first time WWE started to push the envelope. And you had Bret vs Austin, which was the feud that kicked the Attitude Era into gear. For the box office, Shawn's numbers were terrible. They had to paper Royal Rumble 1997, Shawn winning the title back in his hometown, and they couldn't move tickets. |
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 20, 2018 3:33:09 GMT -5
It was in MSG which made it a mainstream big deal because it was presented as the defining moment of kayfabe dying or at least declining in a huge way, which could be looked at as a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. WWE still celebrates it today on there official website so I figured they liked the attention they received from it. How old were you when it happened? Yeah... it happened during my like year or 2 hiatus from wrestling... I didn't know about it until years later. and I live IN New York. |
|
|
|
Post by hbkwrestlinggod on May 20, 2018 4:06:24 GMT -5
It was in MSG which made it a mainstream big deal Except it wasn't. No one outside the wrestling bubble gave a crap. There were no reports of it in the newspapers the next day. No entertainment news show mentioned it that week. The internet did not exist like it does now for it to spread. Nobody cared. Well perhaps not at the moment but over time it turned into a huge deal. Kayfabe was huge back in the 80s and kliq breaking it at MSG is looked at as one of the most infamous moments. Curtain call and montreal screwjob both made Shawn Michaels a national star in the long run. Yeah but Shawn Michaels had the nickname "mr wrestlemania" followed by a 3 disc dvd of him shooting on all the wrestlemania matches which means Vince pretty much sees him as the franchise player of wrestlemania through out the years. You also have to remember when Shawn Michaels sat out WrestleMania 13 and Undertaker main evented, the box office bombed badly. I'd say Hogan made Undertaker's character look bad despite losing him to him and it was Shawn Michaels at HIAC that elevated Undertaker into a much bigger star. Shawn Michaels was the guy who beat Bret Hart, Diesel, Vader and afterwards he was selling for Undertaker like no other in there 1997 feud which gave Undertaker that elevation he needed after Hogan messing it up. I'd say Shawn Michaels was the biggest star of the 90's up until Steve Austin won the title. How many of those Manias, was Shawn in the marquee match? How many of those Manias was it Shawn's match front and center selling the show? Just because WWE says something, doesn't mean it's true. Wrestlemania was built on the back of Hulk Hogan, he's Mr Wrestlemania as far as I'm concerned. The WWE likes to say that DX started the Attitude Era, when Goldust had debut 2 years earlier, and was the first time WWE started to push the envelope. And you had Bret vs Austin, which was the feud that kicked the Attitude Era into gear. For the box office, Shawn's numbers were terrible. They had to paper Royal Rumble 1997, Shawn winning the title back in his hometown, and they couldn't move tickets. Shawn Michaels was the top heel in the company at wrestlemania 14 and a white hot heel because of the montreal screwjob and HIAC match. I say his impact on wrestlemania 12-14 was obviously felt as there was a 500k increase with him at wrestlemania 14 and a decrease from wrestlemania 12 where he won title to wrestlemania 13 where he was off the card. Wrestlemania 20 he main evented, wrestlemania 21 icon vs icon booked match vs kurt angle a side attraction draw, wrestlemania 23 he main evented, wrestlemania 24 he retired ric flair i think that was a side atrraction draw as well, wrestlemania 25 had the longest match, wrestlemania 26 was the main event. Looks to me like starting from wrestlemania 11 he was always the main event or a major side attraction to the main event. So he either main evented and stole the show five different times and stole the show lesser on the card which makes him mr wrestlemania. Plus, he drew the second best summerslam ppv buy ever in 2005 when he was still in his late prime. |
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,905
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 20, 2018 4:34:30 GMT -5
Except it wasn't. No one outside the wrestling bubble gave a crap. There were no reports of it in the newspapers the next day. No entertainment news show mentioned it that week. The internet did not exist like it does now for it to spread. Nobody cared. Well perhaps not at the moment but over time it turned into a huge deal. Kayfabe was huge back in the 80s and kliq breaking it at MSG is looked at as one of the most infamous moments. Curtain call and montreal screwjob both made Shawn Michaels a national star in the long run. How many of those Manias, was Shawn in the marquee match? How many of those Manias was it Shawn's match front and center selling the show? Just because WWE says something, doesn't mean it's true. Wrestlemania was built on the back of Hulk Hogan, he's Mr Wrestlemania as far as I'm concerned. The WWE likes to say that DX started the Attitude Era, when Goldust had debut 2 years earlier, and was the first time WWE started to push the envelope. And you had Bret vs Austin, which was the feud that kicked the Attitude Era into gear. For the box office, Shawn's numbers were terrible. They had to paper Royal Rumble 1997, Shawn winning the title back in his hometown, and they couldn't move tickets. Shawn Michaels was the top heel in the company at wrestlemania 14 and a white hot heel because of the montreal screwjob and HIAC match. I say his impact on wrestlemania 12-14 was obviously felt as there was a 500k increase with him at wrestlemania 14 and a decrease from wrestlemania 12 where he won title to wrestlemania 13 where he was off the card. Wrestlemania 20 he main evented, wrestlemania 21 icon vs icon booked match vs kurt angle a side attraction draw, wrestlemania 23 he main evented, wrestlemania 24 he retired ric flair i think that was a side atrraction draw as well, wrestlemania 25 had the longest match, wrestlemania 26 was the main event. Looks to me like starting from wrestlemania 11 he was always the main event or a major side attraction to the main event. So he either main evented and stole the show five different times and stole the show lesser on the card which makes him mr wrestlemania. Plus, he drew the second best summerslam ppv buy ever in 2005 when he was still in his late prime. Mania 14 had Austin on the rise and Mike Tyson. HBK was the side attraction. |
|
|
|
Post by Ryushinku on May 20, 2018 5:15:33 GMT -5
Austin-Hogan is both the biggest missed possible match, and also something I'm very confident in feeling would've absolutely sucked.
Austin would just be no fun in there. And without someone to sell his back rakes and eye pokes and shoves and Hulk Up, Hogan's not going to be able to make up the difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on May 20, 2018 5:22:19 GMT -5
Biggest match? I'd say that would go to Austin vs. Hogan, though Rock/HBK is up there as one of them.
As far as the Curtain Call, I never heard it mentioned anywhere outside of the dirt sheets/WWE.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mid-Carder on May 20, 2018 5:37:49 GMT -5
Austin-Hogan is both the biggest missed possible match, and also something I'm very confident in feeling would've absolutely sucked. Austin would just be no fun in there. And without someone to sell his back rakes and eye pokes and shoves and Hulk Up, Hogan's not going to be able to make up the difference. Plus neither would have been willing to take the loss. |
|
|
|
Post by 111111 on May 20, 2018 6:05:20 GMT -5
Kayfabe was huge back in the 80s and kliq breaking it at MSG is looked at as one of the most infamous moments. I think you're over estimating how big kayfabe really was. Watch the Slammy awards from the year before the curtain call they were breaking kayfabe all night. Even in the 80s I doubt anybody other than children and "slower" adults really believed wrestling was real even if the wrestlers and company painstakingly went out of their way to try and maintain kayfabe. And if you want to point to something that actually got national attention that broke kayfabe then I'd say Jim Duggan and The Iron Sheik getting arrested traveling together was a far bigger deal |
|
|
|
Post by The Barber on May 20, 2018 6:40:47 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels match with Hogan summerslam 2005 drew bigger than any hogan savage match and that was when Hogan was on decline. A heel turn from shawn michaels was what drew the second biggest ever buyrate at Summerslam 2005 and Hogan was far past his prime. Michaels also drew great with Cena 1 on 1 and did a great raw rating with him the night after. The Austin and Shawn Michaels feud was the biggest feud of the monday night wars that was much more successful than Sting-Hogan. The curtain call received national attention. Despite being undefeated at wrestlemania for the longest time, its Shawn Michaels who WWE brands as mr wrestlemania and makes a dvd out of it not Undertaker. I love Undertaker top 10 favorite but he was never the guy like Shawn Michaels was. Shawn Michaels also helped increase buys at royal rumble 1998 as he was the main event. Id say Shawn Michaels is very underrated as a draw and can hold his own with just about anybody besides Rock-Austin-Hogan. Rock was a bigger draw than Austin and Hogan and thats why I think his match with HBK is the biggest match ever: biggest draw vs best ring worker and not to mention attitude era creator vs attitude era peaker. As far as Goldberg I don't think he's in any potential biggest match to ever happen. Goldberg did not even draw big with The Rock the biggest mainstream star ever, Goldberg is just a flash in the pan because Hogan made him look awful with the finger poke of dome and making him a second fiddle paper champion, never the guy just like Taker.  Not for nothing but WWE released a DVD of Taker’s WrestleMania matches as well. Yeah but Shawn Michaels had the nickname "mr wrestlemania" followed by a 3 disc dvd of him shooting on all the wrestlemania matches which means Vince pretty much sees him as the franchise player of wrestlemania through out the years. You also have to remember when Shawn Michaels sat out WrestleMania 13 and Undertaker main evented, the box office bombed badly. I'd say Hogan made Undertaker's character look bad despite losing him to him and it was Shawn Michaels at HIAC that elevated Undertaker into a much bigger star. Shawn Michaels was the guy who beat Bret Hart, Diesel, Vader and afterwards he was selling for Undertaker like no other in there 1997 feud which gave Undertaker that elevation he needed after Hogan messing it up. I'd say Shawn Michaels was the biggest star of the 90's up until Steve Austin won the title. That 'Mr. WrestleMania' nickname was given to Shawn by WWE, not dedicated by other people.
I'm starting to think you are believing WWE's bullshit a little too much.
Do you also think that Ted Turner saw how good the ratings did for Black Saturday and decided to sign WCW to compete with Vince?
The curtain call received national attention. Which nation was this?  |
|
|
|
Post by The Barber on May 20, 2018 6:42:56 GMT -5
Yeah but Shawn Michaels had the nickname "mr wrestlemania" followed by a 3 disc dvd of him shooting on all the wrestlemania matches which means Vince pretty much sees him as the franchise player of wrestlemania through out the years. You also have to remember when Shawn Michaels sat out WrestleMania 13 and Undertaker main evented, the box office bombed badly. I'd say Hogan made Undertaker's character look bad despite losing him to him and it was Shawn Michaels at HIAC that elevated Undertaker into a much bigger star. Shawn Michaels was the guy who beat Bret Hart, Diesel, Vader and afterwards he was selling for Undertaker like no other in there 1997 feud which gave Undertaker that elevation he needed after Hogan messing it up. I'd say Shawn Michaels was the biggest star of the 90's up until Steve Austin won the title. How many of those Manias, was Shawn in the marquee match? How many of those Manias was it Shawn's match front and center selling the show? Just because WWE says something, doesn't mean it's true. Wrestlemania was built on the back of Hulk Hogan, he's Mr Wrestlemania as far as I'm concerned. The WWE likes to say that DX started the Attitude Era, when Goldust had debut 2 years earlier, and was the first time WWE started to push the envelope. And you had Bret vs Austin, which was the feud that kicked the Attitude Era into gear. For the box office, Shawn's numbers were terrible. They had to paper Royal Rumble 1997, Shawn winning the title back in his hometown, and they couldn't move tickets. 
BTW, my choice was 'Other' as I feel that Austin-Goldberg was the biggest missed opportunity, but only if the 'InVasion' had a successful run.
|
|
|
|
Post by abjordans on May 20, 2018 7:43:54 GMT -5
The curtain call received national attention. If you're saying anyone outside of wrestling gave a crap about that, I have to disagree. Somewhat strongly. Not even everyone who followed wrestling knew about the curtain call, it was different times back then, IWC was in its infancy and kayfabe on its last legs. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 8:36:25 GMT -5
No one else remembers CNN and ESPN covering the curtain call? I believe Clinton was even asked about his thoughts on it right after it happened. It was everywhere.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,931 
|
Post by fw91 on May 20, 2018 9:17:34 GMT -5
You're thinking way too much about it. Maybe Rock didn't like HBK early on, but to say he returned regulary only when HBK retired is a tad ridiculously. HBK was around for the 2002-2004 and that includes the Hollywood Rock saga. Also Rock said how he wished he worked with him during his induction speech for his Dad and Grandfather at the 2008 hof ceremony.
|
|
|
|
Post by hbkwrestlinggod on May 20, 2018 10:04:14 GMT -5
You're thinking way too much about it. Maybe Rock didn't like HBK early on, but to say he returned regulary only when HBK retired is a tad ridiculously. HBK was around for the 2002-2004 and that includes the Hollywood Rock saga. Also Rock said how he wished he worked with him during his induction speech for his Dad and Grandfather at the 2008 hof ceremony. Shawn Michaels return match was Summerslam 2002. Rock worked about four more ppv matches after that and was gone. It seems Shawn returned when he saw Rock was headed to Hollywood and HHH was stepping into the role of top guy. There was also rumors that Vince Mcmahon wanted Shawn Michaels vs Rock at Wrestlemania 20 but Rock did the foley evolution match instead and michaels was than inserted into the main event. I don't think it's exaggeration when you have Rock's own dad saying Michaels and Rock fought and the fight was over Rock thinking Michaels stiffed him. Plus the interviews turning down Shawn Michaels dream match on multiple occasions? Rock flat out said he had no interest in working with him. |
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,931
|
Post by fw91 on May 20, 2018 10:26:51 GMT -5
You're thinking way too much about it. Maybe Rock didn't like HBK early on, but to say he returned regulary only when HBK retired is a tad ridiculously. HBK was around for the 2002-2004 and that includes the Hollywood Rock saga. Also Rock said how he wished he worked with him during his induction speech for his Dad and Grandfather at the 2008 hof ceremony. Shawn Michaels return match was Summerslam 2002. Rock worked about four more ppv matches after that and was gone. It seems Shawn returned when he saw Rock was headed to Hollywood and HHH was stepping into the role of top guy. There was also rumors that Vince Mcmahon wanted Shawn Michaels vs Rock at Wrestlemania 20 but Rock did the foley evolution match instead and michaels was than inserted into the main event. I don't think it's exaggeration when you have Rock's own dad saying Michaels and Rock fought and the fight was over Rock thinking Michaels stiffed him. Plus the interviews turning down Shawn Michaels dream match on multiple occasions? Rock flat out said he had no interest in working with him. I meant more of Rock's 2011 return. I think that was independent of HBK retiring. The OP suggests that HBK being gone was a major factor in the Rock coming back when he did. I very much doubt that. |
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 20, 2018 10:29:56 GMT -5
I like both guys, but it's not even a match I have much interest in at all. It's like, if they had, fine. But the fact that they didn't doesn't remotely bother me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on May 20, 2018 11:47:53 GMT -5
Well perhaps not at the moment but over time it turned into a huge deal. Man, it wasn't even a huge deal to the WWF when it first happened. No one cared. Seriously. NO ONE CARED. As far as breaking kayfabe goes, you do know that Vince McMahon *did* make national news about 10 years before this by going in front of the New Jersey commission and admitting wrestling was fake so that the WWF could have shows there, right? THAT made national news. It was even in TV Guide. The curtain call? Nowhere. I think you have some serious misconceptions on how much the outside world cares about wrestling storylines. |
|
Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
|
Post by Jiren on May 20, 2018 11:51:43 GMT -5
The only person who cared about the curtain call was Jim Cornette, Hell just mention it to him today and he has a conniption fit.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,905
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 20, 2018 14:02:30 GMT -5
The only person who cared about the curtain call was Jim Cornette, Hell just mention it to him today and he has a conniption fit. He did on Twitter today. |
|
