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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 20, 2018 20:46:35 GMT -5
In this scenario, is Miz a werewolf? No, he's just ripping on Freddie Blassie. I want Lycan Mizanin. "I'm the Miz, and I'm AWROOOOOOOOO!"
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 20, 2018 20:51:53 GMT -5
Glad he admitted it. Miz is the GOAT and taught Bryan everything he knew
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 20:55:26 GMT -5
They HAVE to do Miz/Bryan at some point. It's one of the only long-term stories they've actually done really well. To not do it would be spitting in the face of years of work by both guys. That's what I say. Yeah, they HAVE to do it due to the work they've put in for it but they need to acknowledge the work. I don't want any storyline changing that goes against they work they've done. As long as they stick to the storyline which plays off of why we've wanted to see it then they've got magic. Summerslam is great but honestly they can make this a WM level feud is possible due to it.
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 21, 2018 0:31:07 GMT -5
They HAVE to do Miz/Bryan at some point. It's one of the only long-term stories they've actually done really well. To not do it would be spitting in the face of years of work by both guys. That's what I say. Yeah, they HAVE to do it due to the work they've put in for it but they need to acknowledge the work. I don't want any storyline changing that goes against they work they've done. As long as they stick to the storyline which plays off of why we've wanted to see it then they've got magic. Summerslam is great but honestly they can make this a WM level feud is possible due to it. The thing is, the story you're describing is only the latest chapter in the ongoing saga these two have had in their feud for lack of a better all encompassing word for it. Miz and Bryan have been intertwined on and off since the moment Bryan came onto WWE programming proper. And, the story was not what you're describing now. It has evolved and changed over the course of time and over the course of developments like Bryan being picked for Team WWE instead of Miz, title aspirations of both, and seemingly retirement for Bryan (which led into the story you're so invested in). I don't think anyone is saying they want them to drop the work Bryan and Miz have done, nor do I think it's really possible to at this point. I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step. Or, make you believe it. Though I'm not saying that's what is happening here either. I do think that the plot needs to advance and continue to evolve like they've done for years now though, I disagree with you strongly there. It can't stay in the state you've praised because the game has been changed, Bryan is active, Miz has been having amazing matches and not needed his goon squad armor to have them. And if this is the start of the shift in direction, I for one accept it and am fine with that. Because I trust Miz and Bryan to make it an entertaining ride like they did when they were rookie & pro, when they feuded over the US title, when Miz dogged Bryan because he knew Bryan "would never wrestle again". This is a story that started in February of 2010, it stretches across almost ten years of the WWE programming. Ten years! That is unheard of in the current climate. This is very much this generation's Rock/HHH, Austin/HHH, Austin/Rock in terms of how woven into each other's careers they are. I don't usually say this about anything WWE related anymore but it deserves some benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Ryushinku on May 21, 2018 4:01:33 GMT -5
It'd be an interesting spin to have it where, instead of the standard "No U!" babyface fire, Bryan's more like "Yeah, y'know, I'm actually not at your level. You're great right now. So I need to beat you to get back up there."
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Post by Hobby Drifter on May 21, 2018 4:10:59 GMT -5
If Wrestlemania 35 can't be the coronation of Daniel Bryan as THE guy, then I'm totally okay with it being an epic Bryan/Miz match.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 21, 2018 6:15:41 GMT -5
It'd be an interesting spin to have it where, instead of the standard "No U!" babyface fire, Bryan's more like "Yeah, y'know, I'm actually not at your level. You're great right now. So I need to beat you to get back up there." Yeah I would actually really dig this. Bryan talking about how he's not the same guy he was before the injury... yet. And that for all the years he wasn't wrestling and even all the years he was, the niggle was that he never quite got his hands on Miz. It's a redemption storyline for Bryan. And it doesn't have to be about Miz actually being better, because Miz is a slimy heel. It can be about Bryan finally getting his hands on Miz. Miz can duck the Knee+ for weeks, and when he finally is hit with it, it just be instant death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 9:24:44 GMT -5
That's what I say. Yeah, they HAVE to do it due to the work they've put in for it but they need to acknowledge the work. I don't want any storyline changing that goes against they work they've done. As long as they stick to the storyline which plays off of why we've wanted to see it then they've got magic. Summerslam is great but honestly they can make this a WM level feud is possible due to it. The thing is, the story you're describing is only the latest chapter in the ongoing saga these two have had in their feud for lack of a better all encompassing word for it. Miz and Bryan have been intertwined on and off since the moment Bryan came onto WWE programming proper. And, the story was not what you're describing now. It has evolved and changed over the course of time and over the course of developments like Bryan being picked for Team WWE instead of Miz, title aspirations of both, and seemingly retirement for Bryan (which led into the story you're so invested in). I don't think anyone is saying they want them to drop the work Bryan and Miz have done, nor do I think it's really possible to at this point. I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step. Or, make you believe it. Though I'm not saying that's what is happening here either. I do think that the plot needs to advance and continue to evolve like they've done for years now though, I disagree with you strongly there. It can't stay in the state you've praised because the game has been changed, Bryan is active, Miz has been having amazing matches and not needed his goon squad armor to have them. And if this is the start of the shift in direction, I for one accept it and am fine with that. Because I trust Miz and Bryan to make it an entertaining ride like they did when they were rookie & pro, when they feuded over the US title, when Miz dogged Bryan because he knew Bryan "would never wrestle again". This is a story that started in February of 2010, it stretches across almost ten years of the WWE programming. Ten years! That is unheard of in the current climate. This is very much this generation's Rock/HHH, Austin/HHH, Austin/Rock in terms of how woven into each other's careers they are. I don't usually say this about anything WWE related anymore but it deserves some benefit of the doubt. Your post is the exact reason why there's a disconnect in this thread. You're not understanding why some people don't want this kind of feud. Look at what I've underlined here.
Not everyone cares about this.
I don't care how long Bryan and Miz have intertwined, I don't care how long their history is, I don't care what they've done before that shoot promo, I don't care about any of that. It's the same reason why people say they don't care about The Shield bros mingling, just because it's Bryan and Miz and it's worked you expect everyone to care about that? Not everyone does and I'm one of the people presenting that. You've got people in this very thread saying they don't care fully knowing their history and others flatout saying they don't want to see the "damn, Bryan's not better than Miz so he has to climb back up and face him" feud even though you claim it's an evolution of their history which furthermore proves that. Just because you like the evolution doesn't mean everyone has to love it. That's one kind of fan, a fan who wants to see another Bryan/Miz feud rather than the logistics behind it. You straight up said that regardless what happens they can make it work so you're in with the fan I'm describing. I, and others in this thread against this idea, aren't those kinds of fans so putting your mindset behind everyone is just that, your mindset. It doesn't encompass everyone nor does it throw my points off. You're just mentioning why you've enjoy it rather than, like my posts against this were describing it, me explaining why people are against it. My posts aren't saying "well this is going to be horrible", my posts are saying "this is why I and others don't want to it regardless of why you want it."
There's a disconnect in this thread and one of the points is described in your post when you say "I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step" and that is something not everyone cares about.
I became invested in another Miz/Bryan feud due to Miz shooting on Bryan when he couldn't compete, when he had his girls and goons protecting him through title defense after title defense and Bryan couldn't stop it, when Miz was commenting on Bryan week after week, when Miz was the cheating heel all throughout the shows, when Bryan was cleared and Miz is afraid of Bryan, that's why I'm invested in the feud because at that point? It caught me and it wasn't due to the fact that it's due to 2 guys who have had history since 2010, it was due to the fact that I loved what I was seeing at that point and time. Now, we can finally get payoff to all Miz has done over those years in the form of a Bryan who can now compete. It makes perfect sense from a story perspective...and now you're telling me that "the game has changed, Miz and Bryan can make this new direction work, it's part of a long history for them-", nah, that's not what I signed up for nor is it going to be something that I've been fully invested in these past 2 years. From a storyline standpoint, it's like building up Freeza vs Goku on Namek just for Piccolo to show up and be the one to defeat Freeza in a fight before Goku. You cannot build up something for years and then suddenly switch the direction and expect everyone to love that. As a writer, I call that bad storytelling given the boundaries of said situation. Some might love it (like you and others) but others can hate it and you can't say a thing against it.
You mentioning you wanting the plot to "evolve", that type of thing, again, falls into the line of thought by the same fans who'd want another Miz/Bryan feud given their history. Again, not everyone is that kind of fan.
Basically, my post was describing why some people don't want this feud and want it to go a different way and your post was describing why you want this feud. Yeah, we know why you want this feud but that doesn't go against those who don't.
That's the disconnect between the 2 people.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 21, 2018 10:13:59 GMT -5
It'd be an interesting spin to have it where, instead of the standard "No U!" babyface fire, Bryan's more like "Yeah, y'know, I'm actually not at your level. You're great right now. So I need to beat you to get back up there." It can be a good storyline Not with Bryan and Miz. There is no way to believe Bryan is not 10x Above Miz.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 21, 2018 13:37:08 GMT -5
The thing is, the story you're describing is only the latest chapter in the ongoing saga these two have had in their feud for lack of a better all encompassing word for it. Miz and Bryan have been intertwined on and off since the moment Bryan came onto WWE programming proper. And, the story was not what you're describing now. It has evolved and changed over the course of time and over the course of developments like Bryan being picked for Team WWE instead of Miz, title aspirations of both, and seemingly retirement for Bryan (which led into the story you're so invested in). I don't think anyone is saying they want them to drop the work Bryan and Miz have done, nor do I think it's really possible to at this point. I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step. Or, make you believe it. Though I'm not saying that's what is happening here either. I do think that the plot needs to advance and continue to evolve like they've done for years now though, I disagree with you strongly there. It can't stay in the state you've praised because the game has been changed, Bryan is active, Miz has been having amazing matches and not needed his goon squad armor to have them. And if this is the start of the shift in direction, I for one accept it and am fine with that. Because I trust Miz and Bryan to make it an entertaining ride like they did when they were rookie & pro, when they feuded over the US title, when Miz dogged Bryan because he knew Bryan "would never wrestle again". This is a story that started in February of 2010, it stretches across almost ten years of the WWE programming. Ten years! That is unheard of in the current climate. This is very much this generation's Rock/HHH, Austin/HHH, Austin/Rock in terms of how woven into each other's careers they are. I don't usually say this about anything WWE related anymore but it deserves some benefit of the doubt. Your post is the exact reason why there's a disconnect in this thread. You're not understanding why some people don't want this kind of feud. Look at what I've underlined here.
Not everyone cares about this.
I don't care how long Bryan and Miz have intertwined, I don't care how long their history is, I don't care what they've done before that shoot promo, I don't care about any of that. It's the same reason why people say they don't care about The Shield bros mingling, just because it's Bryan and Miz and it's worked you expect everyone to care about that? Not everyone does and I'm one of the people presenting that. You've got people in this very thread saying they don't care fully knowing their history and others flatout saying they don't want to see the "damn, Bryan's not better than Miz so he has to climb back up and face him" feud even though you claim it's an evolution of their history which furthermore proves that. Just because you like the evolution doesn't mean everyone has to love it. That's one kind of fan, a fan who wants to see another Bryan/Miz feud rather than the logistics behind it. You straight up said that regardless what happens they can make it work so you're in with the fan I'm describing. I, and others in this thread against this idea, aren't those kinds of fans so putting your mindset behind everyone is just that, your mindset. It doesn't encompass everyone nor does it throw my points off. You're just mentioning why you've enjoy it rather than, like my posts against this were describing it, me explaining why people are against it. My posts aren't saying "well this is going to be horrible", my posts are saying "this is why I and others don't want to it regardless of why you want it."
There's a disconnect in this thread and one of the points is described in your post when you say "I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step" and that is something not everyone cares about.
I became invested in another Miz/Bryan feud due to Miz shooting on Bryan when he couldn't compete, when he had his girls and goons protecting him through title defense after title defense and Bryan couldn't stop it, when Miz was commenting on Bryan week after week, when Miz was the cheating heel all throughout the shows, when Bryan was cleared and Miz is afraid of Bryan, that's why I'm invested in the feud because at that point? It caught me and it wasn't due to the fact that it's due to 2 guys who have had history since 2010, it was due to the fact that I loved what I was seeing at that point and time. Now, we can finally get payoff to all Miz has done over those years in the form of a Bryan who can now compete. It makes perfect sense from a story perspective...and now you're telling me that "the game has changed, Miz and Bryan can make this new direction work, it's part of a long history for them-", nah, that's not what I signed up for nor is it going to be something that I've been fully invested in these past 2 years. From a storyline standpoint, it's like building up Freeza vs Goku on Namek just for Piccolo to show up and be the one to defeat Freeza in a fight before Goku. You cannot build up something for years and then suddenly switch the direction and expect everyone to love that. As a writer, I call that bad storytelling given the boundaries of said situation. Some might love it (like you and others) but others can hate it and you can't say a thing against it.
You mentioning you wanting the plot to "evolve", that type of thing, again, falls into the line of thought by the same fans who'd want another Miz/Bryan feud given their history. Again, not everyone is that kind of fan.
Basically, my post was describing why some people don't want this feud and want it to go a different way and your post was describing why you want this feud. Yeah, we know why you want this feud but that doesn't go against those who don't.
That's the disconnect between the 2 people.
That statement was hyperbole, an exaggeration, a compliment given to the quality of performers Miz and Bryan are. If it wasn't logical, I'd question it. Showing that you aren't fully understanding what some people are saying in this thread because things might go in a direction you don't want them to. Might. And, I don't think "people" care as much as you care about this. Because ultimately you are the only one in this thread really pushing back so hard against this one-off interview in a different media not even properly affiliated with the WWE, and ultimately you can only really speak for you. I get it, you're unhappy if it goes this way. But you seem awfully hung up on how the narrative MUST stay in this crystallized cocoon when very few stories in wrestling do. I'm not saying it will go the exact way you suggested, or even one of the ways I suggested, but it will most likely change. My attempt to point out their history was not to gush over it but to give context to the fact that as the lyrics go "time's they are a changin'", to explain that Miz & Bryan's dynamic has mutated multiple times. Your DBZ comparison isn't quite accurate. It's less building up to Goku vs. Frieza and getting Piccolo defeating Frieza, and more Frieza revealing he has another form like he did multiple times or putting himself up to his full power. I know this is a dirty term to wrestling fans but it raises the stakes and puts a question in people's mind, can Goku still beat up Frieza like we want to see? It's basic story structure and a common feature of stories because of that. I also feel you are getting confused about something. Their history isn't the selling point. Orton and Cena have history but god willing if they could make that compelling or make anyone care. The story and their interactions very much are the selling point, their ability to make them compelling is the selling point. It's what has you so invested in your expectations of the story, the chemistry these two had in their interactions and their ability to make you care. It's the difference between the apathetic sigh another Cena/Orton match usually gets and this, which has been perpetually white hot any time Miz and Bryan have had substantial time around each other in the ten years this has been going. The history more than anything serves to show that these two have made all of their major programs together compelling, and was why I suggested that rather than jumping the gun about the direction this story is going in and whether that's great or terrible to wait till they really get going with it again on the programming. I will say I do agree there's a disconnect going on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 14:19:06 GMT -5
Your post is the exact reason why there's a disconnect in this thread. You're not understanding why some people don't want this kind of feud. Look at what I've underlined here.
Not everyone cares about this.
I don't care how long Bryan and Miz have intertwined, I don't care how long their history is, I don't care what they've done before that shoot promo, I don't care about any of that. It's the same reason why people say they don't care about The Shield bros mingling, just because it's Bryan and Miz and it's worked you expect everyone to care about that? Not everyone does and I'm one of the people presenting that. You've got people in this very thread saying they don't care fully knowing their history and others flatout saying they don't want to see the "damn, Bryan's not better than Miz so he has to climb back up and face him" feud even though you claim it's an evolution of their history which furthermore proves that. Just because you like the evolution doesn't mean everyone has to love it. That's one kind of fan, a fan who wants to see another Bryan/Miz feud rather than the logistics behind it. You straight up said that regardless what happens they can make it work so you're in with the fan I'm describing. I, and others in this thread against this idea, aren't those kinds of fans so putting your mindset behind everyone is just that, your mindset. It doesn't encompass everyone nor does it throw my points off. You're just mentioning why you've enjoy it rather than, like my posts against this were describing it, me explaining why people are against it. My posts aren't saying "well this is going to be horrible", my posts are saying "this is why I and others don't want to it regardless of why you want it."
There's a disconnect in this thread and one of the points is described in your post when you say "I feel like no matter what was done, Bryan and Miz are so capable of working with whatever they're given that they could logically integrate it into the plot and make it the next logical step" and that is something not everyone cares about.
I became invested in another Miz/Bryan feud due to Miz shooting on Bryan when he couldn't compete, when he had his girls and goons protecting him through title defense after title defense and Bryan couldn't stop it, when Miz was commenting on Bryan week after week, when Miz was the cheating heel all throughout the shows, when Bryan was cleared and Miz is afraid of Bryan, that's why I'm invested in the feud because at that point? It caught me and it wasn't due to the fact that it's due to 2 guys who have had history since 2010, it was due to the fact that I loved what I was seeing at that point and time. Now, we can finally get payoff to all Miz has done over those years in the form of a Bryan who can now compete. It makes perfect sense from a story perspective...and now you're telling me that "the game has changed, Miz and Bryan can make this new direction work, it's part of a long history for them-", nah, that's not what I signed up for nor is it going to be something that I've been fully invested in these past 2 years. From a storyline standpoint, it's like building up Freeza vs Goku on Namek just for Piccolo to show up and be the one to defeat Freeza in a fight before Goku. You cannot build up something for years and then suddenly switch the direction and expect everyone to love that. As a writer, I call that bad storytelling given the boundaries of said situation. Some might love it (like you and others) but others can hate it and you can't say a thing against it.
You mentioning you wanting the plot to "evolve", that type of thing, again, falls into the line of thought by the same fans who'd want another Miz/Bryan feud given their history. Again, not everyone is that kind of fan.
Basically, my post was describing why some people don't want this feud and want it to go a different way and your post was describing why you want this feud. Yeah, we know why you want this feud but that doesn't go against those who don't.
That's the disconnect between the 2 people.
That statement was hyperbole, an exaggeration, a compliment given to the quality of performers Miz and Bryan are. If it wasn't logical, I'd question it. Showing that you aren't fully understanding what some people are saying in this thread because things might go in a direction you don't want them to. Might. And, I don't think "people" care as much as you care about this. Because ultimately you are the only one in this thread really pushing back so hard against this one-off interview in a different media not even properly affiliated with the WWE, and ultimately you can only really speak for you. I get it, you're unhappy if it goes this way. But you seem awfully hung up on how the narrative MUST stay in this crystallized cocoon when very few stories in wrestling do. I'm not saying it will go the exact way you suggested, or even one of the ways I suggested, but it will most likely change. My attempt to point out their history was not to gush over it but to give context to the fact that as the lyrics go "time's they are a changin'", to explain that Miz & Bryan's dynamic has mutated multiple times. Your DBZ comparison isn't quite accurate. It's less building up to Goku vs. Frieza and getting Piccolo defeating Frieza, and more Frieza revealing he has another form like he did multiple times or putting himself up to his full power. I know this is a dirty term to wrestling fans but it raises the stakes and puts a question in people's mind, can Goku still beat up Frieza like we want to see? It's basic story structure and a common feature of stories because of that. I also feel you are getting confused about something. Their history isn't the selling point. Orton and Cena have history but god willing if they could make that compelling or make anyone care. The story and their interactions very much are the selling point, their ability to make them compelling is the selling point. It's what has you so invested in your expectations of the story, the chemistry these two had in their interactions and their ability to make you care. It's the difference between the apathetic sigh another Cena/Orton match usually gets and this, which has been perpetually white hot any time Miz and Bryan have had substantial time around each other in the ten years this has been going. The history more than anything serves to show that these two have made all of their major programs together compelling, and was why I suggested that rather than jumping the gun about the direction this story is going in and whether that's great or terrible to wait till they really get going with it again on the programming.
I will say I do agree there's a disconnect going on.Wait, wait, wait, wait...
Bruh...there's one thing you're not understanding in this entire situation and it's questioning why you even responded to me in the first place. You jumped into this discussion for no reason as this isn't what you think it is.
Someone said they didn't know why people wanted to see the version I mentioned and my post explained why, why people are against what Miz and Bryan's quotes are responding to. If you think I'm the only one against the narrative that's been presented then you need to reread the entire first page of this thread, I'm clearly not. I don't care if you think others care about this as much as me. So? Regardless, I explained why some people are against it. Your post in response to it is just your opinion why you like this direction. You state that "things are changing" and "they've evolved this feud before" and "it's something that's repeatedly happened" and "still it's jumping the gun" and all that stuff but regardless, you literally posted the gif above stating "that's just your opinion man" and that's literally it....
Of course it's my opinion. That was the entire point of the first post.
The entire reason I responded in the first place was explaining my opinion and the opinion of others. This isn't a debate as to "what's better" or "well they've done this before" or "how does this make sense", it was literally me explaining the other's position towards something they didn't want to see. Your posts responding to mine are taking this as it's a debate when the reality is it's clearly not that. You can literally bring up multiple situations but at the end of the day that doesn't change a thing towards people who like what they like and dislike what they dislike. I and others know what others like but that in itself doesn't discount what we like nor does that make things better. Everybody is different. Again, this isn't a debate and if anything there's 2 responses here:
1. You mistook the response for what it was, and assuming this was some sort of debate/argument, when the reality is it was me explaining a POV.
2. You knew what this was and given you're defensive towards you liking this and others not liking it, you responded to it.
So why are you responding in the first place? If you think this is a debate and not me explaining a POV then shit you've got the entirely wrong thread. You can keep trying to debate but there's really nothing to debate given it's not a debate. Even in what I responded to right now I mentioned "not everyone caring about this" and I'm speaking purely from what people like, dislike and such rather than speaking towards the characters, how things have changed with their feuds or whatnot.
You've completely misread what this is about. What's up?
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Post by freeze Austin on May 21, 2018 22:57:35 GMT -5
If the plan isn't a slow build to Bryan/Miz where Bryan eventually takes the WWE Title off of him, then Road Dogg needs to submit his resignation and never come back (he needs to do that anyway, but still).
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Post by mauled on May 22, 2018 2:14:27 GMT -5
I dunno. I'm not really interested in a Daniel Bryan who genuinely thinks he's not better than The Miz. I saw the wrestle at the echo arena the other week and it was the defo the best match on the card
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