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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 25, 2018 5:55:42 GMT -5
Vince had Corny and WWE layers going over WCW contracts during the attitude era, trying to find ways to break them and sign people away, while wailing that big bad WCW was stealing his talent... Yet somehow, people still buy the myth that Vince cares that guys honour their contracts and promises to promoters. If you really think Vince McMahon looks at MLW the same way he looked at WCW, well, I will just allow you to keep thinking that, but sheesh come on... He doesn't need to see MLW as being on the same level as WCW to still see a fledgling wrestling promotion get a TV deal and want to make it take a hit in the process. WWE is really gunshy right now, and in the past couple years they have gone on a major "We'll pay you to not take bookings" hiring spree in the UK, run afoul of contract tampering allegations from ROH, and dropped a C&D on the Young Bucks. Indie guys get snatched up and hoarded even if there isn't really a place for them at that moment in NXT. The overriding feeling that a lot of people get from this is a resurgence of the old territory raids, and MLW doesn't need to be major competition for it to still be a wrestling promotion with television. One that is a lot more vulnerable to being f***ed with than ROH or LU would be. It's worth bearing in mind that Vince raided and f***ed with a lot of smaller territories during the '80s, too. Not every promotion he bought out was as big and notable as GCW. Small territories without any major markets or TV deals beyond maybe some local stuff were steamrolled over by Vince just as readily as the major ones he went to war with. Size didn't matter; Vince wanted to own wrestling and he worked hard to ensure nobody was going to get a leg up on him. It's the exact same pattern of history that has held for almost forty years. |
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Post by abjordans on May 25, 2018 6:43:12 GMT -5
If you really think Vince McMahon looks at MLW the same way he looked at WCW, well, I will just allow you to keep thinking that, but sheesh come on... He doesn't need to see MLW as being on the same level as WCW to still see a fledgling wrestling promotion get a TV deal and want to make it take a hit in the process. WWE is really gunshy right now, and in the past couple years they have gone on a major "We'll pay you to not take bookings" hiring spree in the UK, run afoul of contract tampering allegations from ROH, and dropped a C&D on the Young Bucks. Indie guys get snatched up and hoarded even if there isn't really a place for them at that moment in NXT. The overriding feeling that a lot of people get from this is a resurgence of the old territory raids, and MLW doesn't need to be major competition for it to still be a wrestling promotion with television. One that is a lot more vulnerable to being f***ed with than ROH or LU would be. It's worth bearing in mind that Vince raided and f***ed with a lot of smaller territories during the '80s, too. Not every promotion he bought out was as big and notable as GCW. Small territories without any major markets or TV deals beyond maybe some local stuff were steamrolled over by Vince just as readily as the major ones he went to war with. Size didn't matter; Vince wanted to own wrestling and he worked hard to ensure nobody was going to get a leg up on him. It's the exact same pattern of history that has held for almost forty years. I think WWE is interested in any talented pro wrestler in the world, what company they work for and if that company has tv has little to do with that. I don’t think there was an edict made of “Kill MLW for daring to get on TV!”. It just so happens some of the biggest stars in the indy world work for them, and WWE is putting feelers to everyone. I just think the whole “WWE wants to kill MLW” narrative is largely bullshit. |
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Post by CubsFan71 on May 25, 2018 6:49:17 GMT -5
God forbid they have a little competition
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 25, 2018 7:23:13 GMT -5
He doesn't need to see MLW as being on the same level as WCW to still see a fledgling wrestling promotion get a TV deal and want to make it take a hit in the process. WWE is really gunshy right now, and in the past couple years they have gone on a major "We'll pay you to not take bookings" hiring spree in the UK, run afoul of contract tampering allegations from ROH, and dropped a C&D on the Young Bucks. Indie guys get snatched up and hoarded even if there isn't really a place for them at that moment in NXT. The overriding feeling that a lot of people get from this is a resurgence of the old territory raids, and MLW doesn't need to be major competition for it to still be a wrestling promotion with television. One that is a lot more vulnerable to being f***ed with than ROH or LU would be. It's worth bearing in mind that Vince raided and f***ed with a lot of smaller territories during the '80s, too. Not every promotion he bought out was as big and notable as GCW. Small territories without any major markets or TV deals beyond maybe some local stuff were steamrolled over by Vince just as readily as the major ones he went to war with. Size didn't matter; Vince wanted to own wrestling and he worked hard to ensure nobody was going to get a leg up on him. It's the exact same pattern of history that has held for almost forty years. I think WWE is interested in any talented pro wrestler in the world, what company they work for and if that company has tv has little to do with that. I don’t think there was an edict made of “Kill MLW for daring to get on TV!”. It just so happens some of the biggest stars in the indy world work for them, and WWE is putting feelers to everyone. I just think the whole “WWE wants to kill MLW” narrative is largely bullshit. But we've seen this exact thing play out in the UK where whether or not those guys were on Triple H's radar, it went pretty quickly into "hotshot a half-baked idea for a product out there right now, get on top of this shit, and start paying dudes we used for one booking and like nothing else". They went from being friendly with a selection of UK indies to running to the front of the line screaming "Nobody move I'm here now!" and they have literally given people contracts where they pay them money to not take certain bookings. Not to actually get booked and work their shows. All because ITV tried to get a really shitty product off the ground staring f***ing Grado. It might not be "kill MLW", but "This wouldn't be a bad time to try and snatch these guys up and screw around with them before they've really found their footing" doesn't really sound unreasonable to me. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 25, 2018 7:50:18 GMT -5
Also I don't think this is really "WWE wants to raid company that just got a TV deal" or "WWE wants to screw Bauer". MLW books a few guys who have been really building up the resume in the last 2/3 years. Strickland,MJF,Janela, Cobb, Havoc, Penta, Fenix... they are pretty much big deals everywhere they go
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Post by abjordans on May 25, 2018 8:40:40 GMT -5
I think WWE is interested in any talented pro wrestler in the world, what company they work for and if that company has tv has little to do with that. I don’t think there was an edict made of “Kill MLW for daring to get on TV!”. It just so happens some of the biggest stars in the indy world work for them, and WWE is putting feelers to everyone. I just think the whole “WWE wants to kill MLW” narrative is largely bullshit. But we've seen this exact thing play out in the UK where whether or not those guys were on Triple H's radar, it went pretty quickly into "hotshot a half-baked idea for a product out there right now, get on top of this shit, and start paying dudes we used for one booking and like nothing else". They went from being friendly with a selection of UK indies to running to the front of the line screaming "Nobody move I'm here now!" and they have literally given people contracts where they pay them money to not take certain bookings. Not to actually get booked and work their shows. All because ITV tried to get a really shitty product off the ground staring f***ing Grado. It might not be "kill MLW", but "This wouldn't be a bad time to try and snatch these guys up and screw around with them before they've really found their footing" doesn't really sound unreasonable to me. It is a completely different situation, World of Sport is on one of the biggest networks in one of WWE’s most coveted markets, white WWE only airs on a subscription channel. That isn’t a precedent for this. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 8:52:59 GMT -5
Yet somehow, people still buy the myth that Vince cares that guys honour their contracts and promises to promoters. Nobody claims Vince/WWE cared about guys honoring their commitments in the 80s and 90s. It's a recent development but absolutely not a myth. I mean guys like Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles worked some indy shows while they were on WWE television. There's countless examples of indy wrestlers saying they won't be accepting more bookings after a certain date 2 or 3 months down the road and then like a week after that date they show up at the Performance Center. I believe Cesaro had his original WWE contract pulled because WWE found out he cancelled a bunch of bookings so he could start with WWE sooner. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 25, 2018 9:23:59 GMT -5
Yet somehow, people still buy the myth that Vince cares that guys honour their contracts and promises to promoters. Nobody claims Vince/WWE cared about guys honoring their commitments in the 80s and 90s. It's a recent development but absolutely not a myth. I mean guys like Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles worked some indy shows while they were on WWE television. There's countless examples of indy wrestlers saying they won't be accepting more bookings after a certain date 2 or 3 months down the road and then like a week after that date they show up at the Performance Center. I believe Cesaro had his original WWE contract pulled because WWE found out he cancelled a bunch of bookings so he could start with WWE sooner. He took Ric Flair back despite his owing dates and tens of thousands of dollars to Ring of Honour and Highspots, having held up a convention promoter for money he wasn't owed and having acted up to get himself fired from TNA the moment the WWE showed interest in him. I don't buy it's an honour thing, more not wanting the headache of being sued by promoters who got the talent they've signed to sign more than just a handshake deal saying they'd be at their event. It's cheaper to let them work the shows than to fight a lawsuit or have a legal team look at what they've committed to. |
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 25, 2018 9:29:30 GMT -5
I think WWE is interested in any talented pro wrestler in the world, what company they work for and if that company has tv has little to do with that. I don’t think there was an edict made of “Kill MLW for daring to get on TV!”. It just so happens some of the biggest stars in the indy world work for them, and WWE is putting feelers to everyone. I just think the whole “WWE wants to kill MLW” narrative is largely bullshit. But we've seen this exact thing play out in the UK where whether or not those guys were on Triple H's radar, it went pretty quickly into "hotshot a half-baked idea for a product out there right now, get on top of this shit, and start paying dudes we used for one booking and like nothing else". They went from being friendly with a selection of UK indies to running to the front of the line screaming "Nobody move I'm here now!" and they have literally given people contracts where they pay them money to not take certain bookings. Not to actually get booked and work their shows. All because ITV tried to get a really shitty product off the ground staring f***ing Grado. It might not be "kill MLW", but "This wouldn't be a bad time to try and snatch these guys up and screw around with them before they've really found their footing" doesn't really sound unreasonable to me. And yet they STILL had no interest in signing "f***ing Grado" (I move that he should always be referred to as "F***ing Grado"), so what does that say about him? |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 25, 2018 9:49:29 GMT -5
But we've seen this exact thing play out in the UK where whether or not those guys were on Triple H's radar, it went pretty quickly into "hotshot a half-baked idea for a product out there right now, get on top of this shit, and start paying dudes we used for one booking and like nothing else". They went from being friendly with a selection of UK indies to running to the front of the line screaming "Nobody move I'm here now!" and they have literally given people contracts where they pay them money to not take certain bookings. Not to actually get booked and work their shows. All because ITV tried to get a really shitty product off the ground staring f***ing Grado. It might not be "kill MLW", but "This wouldn't be a bad time to try and snatch these guys up and screw around with them before they've really found their footing" doesn't really sound unreasonable to me. It is a completely different situation, World of Sport is on one of the biggest networks in one of WWE’s most coveted markets, white WWE only airs on a subscription channel. That isn’t a precedent for this. But again I'm not saying that MLW is on that same level, I'm saying that there is a pattern of behavior across the scene and WWE doing a lot of things to try and control the independent scene. Nobody is implying MLW is on the level of threat World of Sport was, and fittingly, WWE isn't trying to sign the indies to "don't work" deals in an attempt to stifle it, they're just trying to tempt people out of their contracts. My point goes to the point of the behavior and the tone being set here, so I'm going to say it again and then stop responding because this is just going in circles: Vince f***ed with all the small territories who posed zero threat to his nationally televised empire too. Vince wants the whole pie and MLW being on TV is still taking a piece of that, no matter how small. |
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Post by americanoutlaw911 on May 25, 2018 10:00:21 GMT -5
Not a lot of wrestlers that are worth signing
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Post by abjordans on May 25, 2018 11:22:08 GMT -5
It is a completely different situation, World of Sport is on one of the biggest networks in one of WWE’s most coveted markets, white WWE only airs on a subscription channel. That isn’t a precedent for this. But again I'm not saying that MLW is on that same level, I'm saying that there is a pattern of behavior across the scene and WWE doing a lot of things to try and control the independent scene. Nobody is implying MLW is on the level of threat World of Sport was, and fittingly, WWE isn't trying to sign the indies to "don't work" deals in an attempt to stifle it, they're just trying to tempt people out of their contracts. My point goes to the point of the behavior and the tone being set here, so I'm going to say it again and then stop responding because this is just going in circles: Vince f***ed with all the small territories who posed zero threat to his nationally televised empire too. Vince wants the whole pie and MLW being on TV is still taking a piece of that, no matter how small. What territory did Vince f*** with after he had national exposure that posed no threat to him? What you are saying is just not correct on any front. And again, I am sure they want or at least have some of this taken on their radar. I don’t think it is because they want to kill any other wrestling on TV. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 25, 2018 11:43:50 GMT -5
But again I'm not saying that MLW is on that same level, I'm saying that there is a pattern of behavior across the scene and WWE doing a lot of things to try and control the independent scene. Nobody is implying MLW is on the level of threat World of Sport was, and fittingly, WWE isn't trying to sign the indies to "don't work" deals in an attempt to stifle it, they're just trying to tempt people out of their contracts. My point goes to the point of the behavior and the tone being set here, so I'm going to say it again and then stop responding because this is just going in circles: Vince f***ed with all the small territories who posed zero threat to his nationally televised empire too. Vince wants the whole pie and MLW being on TV is still taking a piece of that, no matter how small. What territory did Vince f*** with after he had national exposure that posed no threat to him? What you are saying is just not correct on any front. And again, I am sure they want or at least have some of this taken on their radar. I don’t think it is because they want to kill any other wrestling on TV. Lutte Internationale in Quebec. Got f***ed with by Vince despite being in another country, having only local television, and he trashed the territory with backhanded deals with their main venue and talent raids in 1986, when Vince already had everything he wanted. And that's just one. And if you want more then try Google or some shit, this last response is just to back up that I'm not talking out of my ass. |
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Post by abjordans on May 25, 2018 11:47:17 GMT -5
What territory did Vince f*** with after he had national exposure that posed no threat to him? What you are saying is just not correct on any front. And again, I am sure they want or at least have some of this taken on their radar. I don’t think it is because they want to kill any other wrestling on TV. Lutte Internationale in Quebec. Got f***ed with by Vince despite being in another country, having only local television, and he trashed the territory with backhanded deals with their main venue and talent raids in 1986, when Vince already had everything he wanted. And that's just one. And if you want more then try Google or some shit, this last response is just to back up that I'm not talking out of my ass. Dude, don’t reply to my posts anymore if I am inconvenienceing you by responding. We are only having this back and forth because of you replying to me. |
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on May 25, 2018 12:32:54 GMT -5
The point is, yes, Vince has absolutely f***ed territories in the past for shits and giggles. Lutte International is just the most convenient example to hand. And sadly, this is no different. Vince and Trips want the whole damn bakery, not just their slice of pie.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 13:17:23 GMT -5
The point is, yes, Vince has absolutely f***ed territories in the past for shits and giggles. Lutte International is just the most convenient example to hand. And sadly, this is no different. Vince and Trips want the whole damn bakery, not just their slice of pie. And the only way those pieces remain at the table is if WWE is the one setting it. And really that is what I think it comes down to more than anything ..not so much about wiping the indies and other little companies out but keep the WWE thumb on them so WWE can controll them and work for him....the more companies he gets funneling talent to him the less work he has to do because all the other companies he has swalloed up do it for Vince. MLW is the little guy but with access to stars that WWE clearly does not want them to have so ballparking the scenario..WWE if they cannot get their roster is gonna atleast make false promises to bauer...get the company on the network much more exposure etc...all for the little favor of letting WWE dictate how they do business. |
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