|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jun 15, 2018 23:07:29 GMT -5
I mean on one hand Bret is one of the best storytellers in wrestling ever, on the other, the wrestlers aren't allowed to tell stories anymore. Bret working to laboriously lay out matches designed to accentuate both workers' strengths and creating something spectacular in the ring isn't allowed to happen anymore, because everyone's movesets are distilled down to the core pop-getting moves and some minor transitional stuff, while the match structure itself is usually just the same flow chart pattern over and over again. It's the same issue I have whenever Austin complains about people not "breaking out"; it seems anyone not currently deep within the day-to-day of the company seems unaware of how today's WWE doesn't allow people these freedoms or chances. Yeah, it's on the company, a lot. They don't allow much storytelling anymore. When it's allowed, it works and they get the crowd into it, just look at the Miz vs Ambrose series of matches. People don't have stories, so there's not much reason to care about a match. Is WWE not inducting Owen an ethical or legal question? Of course they wouldn't do it if Martha is against it for moral and (perhaps more importantly for them) publicity reasons. However, if they ignored that, could they do it? If they said they were inducting him, used the footage they already own for his package, and had someone like Bret induct him, could Martha stop it? WWE could do it, but they won't. The huge PR backlash would be insane. They ain't going to do shit without Martha's approval, or if she dies without giving approval, they'll only do it with Owen's children's approval. The most we're going to rightfully get right now is a mention by guys like Jarrett and Mark Henry, who were close to Owen.
|
|
trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
|
Post by trollrogue on Jun 16, 2018 1:27:24 GMT -5
We need a Table For 3 episode with Bret, Bischoff, and Cornette after this Breant (Bret + rant), all 3 of these guys think they can run WWE better and hate the other guys' respective guts (but can express themselves in entertaining ways!)
|
|
|
Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jun 16, 2018 2:11:07 GMT -5
The people can't tell stories because they're not allowed to tell stories.
Everything is so scripted and micro managed no one is allowed to bring any of themselves into their characters to even begin to tell the stories they could tell if they were allowed to play to their individualities as performers. I've said it before if Bret came up today he'd be just another good wrestler. If Austin came up today we'd have NO Austin 3:16 promo. They were allowed to flourish on their strong points as performers and cut promos that sounded like they were actually coming from them as people, because they were.
And the parts that are scripted and micro managed are done so by people who have NO IDEA how to tell stories. 2...3 dozen writers and no one knows how to tell a story. Nothing means anything, they just try and create "moments" for the sake of having them, not because they organically got there.
Then look at NXT. Look at Velveteen's ability to tell stories with just one expression to Ricochet because he's allowed to be this character and portray it as it plays to his strengths. Or his feud with Alesiter...so simple, yet amazing because the storytelling was basic and played to both men's characters as polar opposites.
But when they get called up, they'll lose all of that and be Asuka'd or Bayley'd within weeks.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 16, 2018 3:59:21 GMT -5
It's an uphill battle for talent, first they're subject to the whims of a 70 year old man who doesn't believe in selling, managers or anything that traditionally helped people get over in previous eras of wrestling, then you have a cloud of yesmen who were never any great shakes in the ring, guys like Hayes and Road Dogg who were great promo guys but all kinds of arse between the ropes, and these guys are the road agents telling others how to work. Then you have constant TV matches 52 weeks a year, with PPVs and specials thrown in, burning through what little original material creative are able to come up with that survives the McMahon filter...
|
|
|
Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jun 16, 2018 4:37:34 GMT -5
He’s right. They can’t tell stories anymore and they are great athletes, probably better. They all do the same moves, spots, it doesn’t matter who wins or loses. Nothing matters. It’s just a show on TV. This. It's pointless having the Cruiserweights division because most of the main roster wrestles the same kinda style as them. If there was good storytelling and character work it would be fine, but it's just the same shit by bland characters.
|
|
|
Post by Mid-Carder on Jun 16, 2018 12:49:34 GMT -5
I wish Bret was taking over from Vince instead of the useless, egocentric Levesques.
|
|
|
Post by The Thread Barbi on Jun 16, 2018 13:28:46 GMT -5
It's an uphill battle for talent, first they're subject to the whims of a 70 year old man who doesn't believe in selling, managers or anything that traditionally helped people get over in previous eras of wrestling, then you have a cloud of yesmen who were never any great shakes in the ring, guys like Hayes and Road Dogg who were great promo guys but all kinds of arse between the ropes, and these guys are the road agents telling others how to work. Then you have constant TV matches 52 weeks a year, with PPVs and specials thrown in, burning through what little original material creative are able to come up with that survives the McMahon filter... As much as I long for the style of wrestling from Hart's heyday, the cranky 70 yr old has made infinitely more money than when Bret Hart was working for him. Commercial success > critical acclaim and sadly, McMahon wins
|
|
Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
|
Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jun 16, 2018 13:36:27 GMT -5
I love listening to Bret talk wrestling. If you listen to him talk about any of his matches you can hear how meticulous and thought out everything was. It's crazy. I know he's said before he reached out to WWE asking to get involved backstage and they said no for some reason. He should totally be in NXT at least.
|
|
|
Post by superbigjohnsons on Jun 16, 2018 13:54:18 GMT -5
I always compare current WWE to American ninja warrior It’s just a show where athletes pretend to be wrestlers
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 14:19:24 GMT -5
The people can't tell stories because they're not allowed to tell stories. Everything is so scripted and micro managed no one is allowed to bring any of themselves into their characters to even begin to tell the stories they could tell if they were allowed to play to their individualities as performers. I've said it before if Bret came up today he'd be just another good wrestler. If Austin came up today we'd have NO Austin 3:16 promo. They were allowed to flourish on their strong points as performers and cut promos that sounded like they were actually coming from them as people, because they were. And the parts that are scripted and micro managed are done so by people who have NO IDEA how to tell stories. 2...3 dozen writers and no one knows how to tell a story. Nothing means anything, they just try and create "moments" for the sake of having them, not because they organically got there. Then look at NXT. Look at Velveteen's ability to tell stories with just one expression to Ricochet because he's allowed to be this character and portray it as it plays to his strengths. Or his feud with Alesiter...so simple, yet amazing because the storytelling was basic and played to both men's characters as polar opposites. But when they get called up, they'll lose all of that and be Asuka'd or Bayley'd within weeks. Yeah, aren't wrestlers actually told most of the time to not even sell injuries from PPV matches? That's insane to me. I don't put most of this on the wrestlers themselves.
|
|
Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,373
|
Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jun 16, 2018 19:43:16 GMT -5
The people can't tell stories because they're not allowed to tell stories. Everything is so scripted and micro managed no one is allowed to bring any of themselves into their characters to even begin to tell the stories they could tell if they were allowed to play to their individualities as performers. I've said it before if Bret came up today he'd be just another good wrestler. If Austin came up today we'd have NO Austin 3:16 promo. They were allowed to flourish on their strong points as performers and cut promos that sounded like they were actually coming from them as people, because they were. And the parts that are scripted and micro managed are done so by people who have NO IDEA how to tell stories. 2...3 dozen writers and no one knows how to tell a story. Nothing means anything, they just try and create "moments" for the sake of having them, not because they organically got there. Then look at NXT. Look at Velveteen's ability to tell stories with just one expression to Ricochet because he's allowed to be this character and portray it as it plays to his strengths. Or his feud with Alesiter...so simple, yet amazing because the storytelling was basic and played to both men's characters as polar opposites. But when they get called up, they'll lose all of that and be Asuka'd or Bayley'd within weeks. Yeah, aren't wrestlers actually told most of the time to not even sell injuries from PPV matches? That's insane to me. I don't put most of this on the wrestlers themselves. Last time I remember someone truly selling PPV injuries on TV it was Matt Hardy selling injuries during his comeback feud with Edge. I'm sure Punk and Bryan had TV matches where they acted sore from their PPV matches, but I think Hardy actually lost to enhancement talent to sell the beating Edge put on him. Before that Hunter skipped one TV taping to sell his injuries from Austin dropping him in a car two stories with a forklift. One whole taping!
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jun 16, 2018 20:19:10 GMT -5
More guys need to just take f***ing risks IMO. What are they gonna do fire them? they are so bent on hiring every gawd damn worker with a notable name that getting fired is pretty much impossible so I would use that knowledge to just do whatever the hell I wanted with whoever I am working with. Pretty much. They aren’t releasing anyone and they’re signing EVERYONE. Besides there are a lot of places to make good money Wrestling currently and anyone that’s even a semi-regular on WWE TV would have no problem finding work in the bigger indies promotions/Japan/Mexico. f*** it, just go wild guys. Still won’t matter though, because the writing is such complete and utter shit. Sure but the money they would make from those places is nowhere near the money you could potentially make in WWE from merchandise, image rights etc. So why would you speak out when you could potentially take money away from yourself?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 20:22:52 GMT -5
Pretty much. They aren’t releasing anyone and they’re signing EVERYONE. Besides there are a lot of places to make good money Wrestling currently and anyone that’s even a semi-regular on WWE TV would have no problem finding work in the bigger indies promotions/Japan/Mexico. f*** it, just go wild guys. Still won’t matter though, because the writing is such complete and utter shit. Sure but the money they would make from those places is nowhere near the money you could potentially make in WWE from merchandise, image rights etc. So why would you speak out when you could potentially take money away from yourself? I’m not going to fault anyone for taking a steady paycheck, but is being a guy that doesn’t get featured much better than betting on yourself being good enough to make a splash on the indies and potentially come back and make even more money? I mean CJ Parker is in New Japan and doing well for himself.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jun 16, 2018 20:29:43 GMT -5
Sure but the money they would make from those places is nowhere near the money you could potentially make in WWE from merchandise, image rights etc. So why would you speak out when you could potentially take money away from yourself? I’m not going to fault anyone for taking a steady paycheck, but is being a guy that doesn’t get featured much better than betting on yourself being good enough to make a splash on the indies and potentially come back and make even more money? I mean CJ Parker is in New Japan and doing well for himself. For most of the roster? Probably, yeah. For every CJ Parker, there’s dozens of former WWE people who aren’t on a big stage like LU or AAA or NJPW and people who aren’t capable of putting in the same hustle someone like McIntyre, Lashley or EC3 did to get back in the company. It’s not like WWE’s going to listen when Saudi Arabia’s giving them $1bn over 10 years and Fox and USA are willing to give them $1bn each year for 5 years. They’ll just keep them on to bury them and keep them away from that cash.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 16, 2018 23:19:36 GMT -5
These guys couldn't storytell if they wanted to. The WWE crowd is conditioned for high sports and kickouts. Look how the Nakamura-AJ match tanked because they tried to do some selling, and it didn't get over.
|
|
|
Post by mauled on Jun 17, 2018 4:02:38 GMT -5
We need a Table For 3 episode with Bret, Bischoff, and Cornette after this Breant (Bret + rant), all 3 of these guys think they can run WWE better and hate the other guys' respective guts (but can express themselves in entertaining ways!) It would go like this; Eric: You made that up,none of this was my fault Bret: You're the stupidest guy in wrestling Corvette: Motherbleep..
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,626
|
Post by cjh on Jun 17, 2018 7:22:44 GMT -5
We need a Table For 3 episode with Bret, Bischoff, and Cornette after this Breant (Bret + rant), all 3 of these guys think they can run WWE better and hate the other guys' respective guts (but can express themselves in entertaining ways!) The only pair that have problems right now are Bischoff and Bret. I don't know of Bret and Cornette ever having heat, and Bischoff and Cornette seem to be on much better terms after they did WWE's "Table for 3" together last year.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 17, 2018 7:46:40 GMT -5
We need a Table For 3 episode with Bret, Bischoff, and Cornette after this Breant (Bret + rant), all 3 of these guys think they can run WWE better and hate the other guys' respective guts (but can express themselves in entertaining ways!) The only pair that have problems right now are Bischoff and Bret. I don't know of Bret and Cornette ever having heat, and Bischoff and Cornette seem to be on much better terms after they did WWE's "Table for 3" together last year. Bret has popped in to at least one live event with Corny so I'd say they're on decent terms.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
|
Post by The Ichi on Jun 17, 2018 10:53:18 GMT -5
More guys need to just take f***ing risks IMO. What are they gonna do fire them? Maybe not fire, but suspend, de-push, give embarrassing gimmick etc. We should all know the "act like a rebel and Vince will love you" thing is a meme by now.
|
|
Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,526
Member is Online
|
Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jun 17, 2018 16:07:26 GMT -5
Well said counselor.
|
|