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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jun 17, 2018 23:19:43 GMT -5
The majority of this company's booking is ass which in turn gives us the reflex of questioning everything they do. But I'm tickled that people aren't seeing Braun's booking itself as a validation that good booking is really all that matters in getting someone credible to face him if you DO think he's overpowered.
Braun is a guy who showed up as the black sheep and had me going "Damn that guy looks cool, too bad he's too green for them to do anything with". He was a token hoss. How did they get him over? They booked him to win. To his credit he put in the work to improve along the way, but he got into programs with top talent and won. He was allowed to have segments that played to both his look and weird charisma that added to his character. This isn't even about building a top guy, just building someone that can credibly compete with anyone. If Braun was champ and they gave Balor lead-ups where he's winning feuds and having promos dedicated to how he can outlast him, and they book it seriously, you're telling me that wouldn't matter?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:23:12 GMT -5
Also can I just say that the idea of "Brock's Reign ends with a MITB cash-in that probably means nobody gets put over in a real match" is so horrible that I actually wish I was still watching WWE so I could re-quit the show if it goes down that way? It all goes back to Strowman at the end of the day. Rather than using Lesnar to build up someone who needs it, it goes to the guy who's actually been built up to a crazy amount by destroying everyone else who's actually the same as Lesnar. You're basically giving the Lesnar win to Lesnar Jr. Shit is crazy.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 17, 2018 23:23:44 GMT -5
Also can I just say that the idea of "Brock's Reign ends with a MITB cash-in that probably means nobody gets put over in a real match" is so horrible that I actually wish I was still watching WWE so I could re-quit the show if it goes down that way? Yea
Like if they have Braun announce saying he wants Brock at Summerslam for the title then i'll pull back some of my criticism because at least it seems they will have Braun call his shot and win
But if he does the typical person is down and wait to cash in all I can question is why since it doesn't make any sense. The dude destroying people now meekly runs to cash in on a tired or downed Lesnar
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Post by RI Richmark on Jun 17, 2018 23:23:46 GMT -5
I literally have no idea what this even means. It's like reading an alien language. A glitch called MissingNo on Pokemon Red and Blue allowed you to make "infinite" number of whatever item you wanted. In most cases people made Rare Candys which level up your pokemon by 1 level This was a way for you to level up your pokemon without grinding You got me now?
I think I do. I never watched or played Pokémon. I'm old.
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Post by Starshine on Jun 17, 2018 23:29:56 GMT -5
I get the trepidation over how strong he's booked, although I disagree that it's a problem at the moment for reason I've already stated. But could someone please elaborate on this "Braun doesn't need it" thought? I don't understand it. As far as I'm concerned the case is just a prop designed to build intrigue for a potential title match. Out of the options on the table Strowman/Lesnar was the best option. He's already one of the most credible, unstoppable dudes on the roster who won the tag titles singlehandedly, has unresolved issues with Lesnar from the Rumble and from them having him on the backburner in case there was an issue with Mania, and he just won a Royal Rumble a couple months ago. There would be absolutely nothing stopping them from having Braun win a random title shot in a four way or just demand one or something. All giving him Money in the Bank did was blow a once-a-year chance to potentially elevate someone who could use it a lot more than the third most protected guy in the company. And even then, I could live with that if not for the fact they made the entire build, "No one can stop Braun Strowman," and then had him effortlessly smash seven people at once. It's that combined with his lack of need for it that makes the whole situation so stupid. So when you say needs it more, what do you mean? Needs to win the belt more, or needs to hold the briefcase prop? Then if it's the latter, what makes you think it would help them? (*see below) And if the end goal is Strowman decisively beating Lesnar, do you still think it's a bad move to make him look stronger than anyone else on the roster now? Just note, I'm focusing on the now. If your concern is about him being too strong post title win, that's a different argument. I get the trepidation over how strong he's booked, although I disagree that it's a problem at the moment for reason I've already stated. But could someone please elaborate on this "Braun doesn't need it" thought? I don't understand it. As far as I'm concerned the case is just a prop designed to build intrigue for a potential title match. Out of the options on the table Strowman/Lesnar was the best option. Strowman is already an established main event with tons of credibility. The WWE don't need him to win Money in the Bank because he can just kill fools and get Angle to say that he's number one contender. Someone like Balor is a main eventer but he's not established yet; he's mostly feuding with guys in the upper midcard or when a main eventer is holding the IC title. Because of how shit the WWE is at booking, Balor isn't credible as a threat for the title and needs MITB just to be seen as someone that could sneak a win over a Brock or Braun. Same with Rusev, he's a big burly dude but he has zero credibility in kayfabe. The only other guy in the match that didn't need MITB was Miz who is a chickenshit heel through and through but has enough of an established mean streak that he could jag a title win by cheating his ass off. How many long term top guys have been established through a MITB case win? More often than not they flounder around losing matches before leading into an underwhelming title run and immediately falling back down the card. It's historically not a device that's successfully helped budding main event careers. Here's a list of guys who you could argue had establishing level runs with the case: Mr. Kennedy CM Punk Jack Swagger The Miz Daniel Bryan Alberto Del Rio Dolph Ziggler Damien Sandow Seth Rollins Carmella Baron Corbin How many out of all those names actually can we point to their runs with the cases as being long terms success stories? The guys who actually went anywhere did so after their middling initial runs at that time. Everyone else just straight up failed and quickly wore out their welcomes. I get the trepidation over how strong he's booked, although I disagree that it's a problem at the moment for reason I've already stated. But could someone please elaborate on this "Braun doesn't need it" thought? I don't understand it. As far as I'm concerned the case is just a prop designed to build intrigue for a potential title match. Out of the options on the table Strowman/Lesnar was the best option. He didn't need it meaning he didn't need that prop to be eligible for a title shot. With how much he's been destroying people he could have easily told Angle I want a title shot against Brock and it would have been done. The briefcase does nothing for him and knowing WWE he probably cashes in on a prone Lesnar instead of a straight up one on one match A guy like Miz could have used it as his character is a worm who uses every opportunity to get by. Joe intimidating people with the briefcase letting them know he's watching. Finn finally getting his title shot etc..
If they do a prone cash-in, I'm in complete agreeance that it's a bad move. But the MITB is a much as a prop as a Royal Rumble win, so I don't see the difference between a guy winning one or the other. They're just objects used to bolster up the excitement of a future title match. The other thing is, they could just as easily book any title match they wanted on SmackDown too. It makes no difference to me however they do it. To me Braun winning the case just puts the spotlight on that being the more important match which is why I believe it was the right move. So in that scenario would Kofi win the belt? We already saw Kofi wrestle Lesnar a year or two ago, and nothing came from it. What difference would that make if he's losing? Isn't it better to make these things count by building up to the match crowds would most likely be into? Smackdown guys can only challenge for the WWE title, so Kofi would be challenging AJ, and I'm like 99% sure if we got Kofi's ascent up to the main event with Xavier and Big E backing him up it could be magical and the crowd would definitely be into it. Fair point, I forgot about that. But that only matters so far as they're willing to push Kofi, which in all liklihood isn't all that far. So in that scenario would Kofi win the belt? We already saw Kofi wrestle Lesnar a year or two ago, and nothing came from it. What difference would that make if he's losing? Isn't it better to make these things count by building up to the match crowds would most likely be into? Who knows because chances are if Kofi won the briefcase he would have cashed in after the Reigns match at Summerslam. Lesnar is strong but he's beatable if he gets hit with another finisher after going against Roman "he's the uncrowned champion" Reigns. Not just Kofi but the same goes for if it were Joe, Miz or anyone else in that match. Strowman, given how overpowered he is, is overkill. If not that the winner could cash in in the middle of the Reigns match and do the same thing Reigns did or, honestly, same thing Alexa did. Just beat down Lesnar, cash in and boom he's lost. The biggest key is when the cash in happen because if it's after a Reigns match then it doesn't matter who cashes in. They're likely beating Lesnar given Reigns is supposedly around his level according to the commentators.
Given he's on SDL though he's facing Styles and yeah, Styles ain't getting up after Kofi's finisher after he's had a long grueling match. Styles is durable but he and Kofi are the same "type" of wrestler. Getting hit with Kofi's finisher is the same as someone getting hit with AJ's Forearm.
See I'm going under the assumption, Strowman announces his title match beforehand (ala RVD). I don't like the thought of him cashing in post-match, and if that's how it goes down, I'm against it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:33:42 GMT -5
Fair point, I forgot about that. But that only matters so far as they're willing to push Kofi, which in all liklihood isn't all that far. Who knows because chances are if Kofi won the briefcase he would have cashed in after the Reigns match at Summerslam. Lesnar is strong but he's beatable if he gets hit with another finisher after going against Roman "he's the uncrowned champion" Reigns. Not just Kofi but the same goes for if it were Joe, Miz or anyone else in that match. Strowman, given how overpowered he is, is overkill. If not that the winner could cash in in the middle of the Reigns match and do the same thing Reigns did or, honestly, same thing Alexa did. Just beat down Lesnar, cash in and boom he's lost. The biggest key is when the cash in happen because if it's after a Reigns match then it doesn't matter who cashes in. They're likely beating Lesnar given Reigns is supposedly around his level according to the commentators.
Given he's on SDL though he's facing Styles and yeah, Styles ain't getting up after Kofi's finisher after he's had a long grueling match. Styles is durable but he and Kofi are the same "type" of wrestler. Getting hit with Kofi's finisher is the same as someone getting hit with AJ's Forearm.
See I'm going under the assumption, Strowman announces his title match beforehand (ala RVD). I don't like the thought of him cashing in post-match, and if that's how it goes down, I'm against it. If Strowman announces his cash-in early then the whole process of him beating Lesnar is less upsetting. Sure, he's still overpowered and they need to fix his booking, character and they need to show some weaknesses but the whole "Strowman beats Lesnar" thing would be better in itself if he outrights beats him from the gate without doing the whole "guy cashes in when superstar is down" moment.
And random comment about the Kofi thing, rumors had it that the company was going to put Big E in this match instead of Kofi to start some push for Big E, that's why he was mostly the guy getting these wins recently. Come to find out that Kofi was in the match so maybe they're doing something with him soon? Who knows but I do know that for weeks it was planned to be Big E. I was surprised to see Kofi get the shot.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 17, 2018 23:35:13 GMT -5
A glitch called MissingNo on Pokemon Red and Blue allowed you to make "infinite" number of whatever item you wanted. In most cases people made Rare Candys which level up your pokemon by 1 level This was a way for you to level up your pokemon without grinding You got me now?
I think I do. I never watched or played Pokémon. I'm old. Someone needs to get this man a gameboy 10 packs of batteries that you will run through in 2 hours and Pokemon Red
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Post by Starshine on Jun 17, 2018 23:37:41 GMT -5
Fair point, I forgot about that. But that only matters so far as they're willing to push Kofi, which in all liklihood isn't all that far. See I'm going under the assumption, Strowman announces his title match beforehand (ala RVD). I don't like the thought of him cashing in post-match, and if that's how it goes down, I'm against it. If Strowman announces his cash-in early then the whole process of him beating Lesnar is less upsetting. Sure, he's still overpowered and they need to fix his booking, character and they need to show some weaknesses but the whole "Strowman beats Lesnar" thing would be better in itself if he outrights beats him from the gate without doing the whole "guy cashes in when superstar is down" moment. And random comment about the Kofi thing, rumors had it that the company was going to put Big E in this match instead of Kofi to start some push for Big E, that's why he was mostly the guy getting these wins recently. Come to find out that Kofi was in the match so maybe they're doing something with him soon? Who knows but I do know that for weeks it was planned to be Big E. I was surprised to see Kofi get the shot. Could also be because he's the reliable high spot guy (ala, why Shelton Benjamin kept getting added to the old ladder matches years ago).
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 17, 2018 23:38:25 GMT -5
Fair point, I forgot about that. But that only matters so far as they're willing to push Kofi, which in all liklihood isn't all that far. See I'm going under the assumption, Strowman announces his title match beforehand (ala RVD). I don't like the thought of him cashing in post-match, and if that's how it goes down, I'm against it. If Strowman announces his cash-in early then the whole process of him beating Lesnar is less upsetting. Sure, he's still overpowered and they need to fix his booking, character and they need to show some weaknesses but the whole "Strowman beats Lesnar" thing would be better in itself if he outrights beats him from the gate without doing the whole "guy cashes in when superstar is down" moment.
And random comment about the Kofi thing, rumors had it that the company was going to put Big E in this match instead of Kofi to start some push for Big E, that's why he was mostly the guy getting these wins recently. Come to find out that Kofi was in the match so maybe they're doing something with him soon? Who knows but I do know that for weeks it was planned to be Big E. I was surprised to see Kofi get the shot. However, that also fits into the problem
If Braun calls his shot against Lesnar, why couldn't he do that without the case. What was stopping him from calling out Lesnar each and every week until he got a response and they set the match up at Summerslam
That's where it's like even if they used the MITB case "correctly" it still sort of fits into my argument of he didn't need it but the MITB is just used to give him something on his resume plus make his title shot "legit"
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Post by Starshine on Jun 17, 2018 23:42:56 GMT -5
If Strowman announces his cash-in early then the whole process of him beating Lesnar is less upsetting. Sure, he's still overpowered and they need to fix his booking, character and they need to show some weaknesses but the whole "Strowman beats Lesnar" thing would be better in itself if he outrights beats him from the gate without doing the whole "guy cashes in when superstar is down" moment. And random comment about the Kofi thing, rumors had it that the company was going to put Big E in this match instead of Kofi to start some push for Big E, that's why he was mostly the guy getting these wins recently. Come to find out that Kofi was in the match so maybe they're doing something with him soon? Who knows but I do know that for weeks it was planned to be Big E. I was surprised to see Kofi get the shot. However, that also fits into the problem If Braun calls his shot against Lesnar, why couldn't he do that without the case. What was stopping him from calling out Lesnar each and every week until he got a response and they set the match up at Summerslam That's where it's like even if they used the MITB case "correctly" it still sort of fits into my argument of he didn't need it but the MITB is just used to give him something on his resume plus make his title shot "legit"
I guess if they were thinking outside of the box (ha!) the cash in could be used to contratually "force" Lesnar into wrestling on a date he wasn't going to be present for. But honestly I don't give WWE that much credit. I'm just looking at it from a very basic business position. To me MITB was built to promise a future Lesnar/Strowman match. If they fail to deliver, you won't see me defending it again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:47:48 GMT -5
However, that also fits into the problem If Braun calls his shot against Lesnar, why couldn't he do that without the case. What was stopping him from calling out Lesnar each and every week until he got a response and they set the match up at Summerslam That's where it's like even if they used the MITB case "correctly" it still sort of fits into my argument of he didn't need it but the MITB is just used to give him something on his resume plus make his title shot "legit"
Yep that's what I'm saying. We know Braun is strong. We know he's a threat. He could easily call Lesnar out again and Lesnar, given he's destroyed him in the past, could accept and underestimate Strowman. He really didn't need the briefcase. Could also be because he's the reliable high spot guy (ala, why Shelton Benjamin kept getting added to the old ladder matches years ago). They had too many big men in the match regardless so Kofi made the most sense. He almost won too so that's something but then again, he's almost won plenty of times.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 17, 2018 23:49:17 GMT -5
However, that also fits into the problem If Braun calls his shot against Lesnar, why couldn't he do that without the case. What was stopping him from calling out Lesnar each and every week until he got a response and they set the match up at Summerslam That's where it's like even if they used the MITB case "correctly" it still sort of fits into my argument of he didn't need it but the MITB is just used to give him something on his resume plus make his title shot "legit"
I guess if they were thinking outside of the box (ha!) the cash in could be used to contratually "force" Lesnar into wrestling on a date he wasn't going to be present for. But honestly I don't give WWE that much credit. I'm just looking at it from a very basic business position. To me MITB was built to promise a future Lesnar/Strowman match. If they fail to deliver, you won't see me defending it again. Yea, that's why I said I think they mostly did this to make the title shot "legit"
If WWE is smart you have Strowman say Lesnar is fighting me on X day and he better be ready. However, a part of me can't help but shake that they will do this the regular way cash in for when the guy is down or just finished a match and you have Braun pick the bones
The worst things they can do is have Roman win the belt and Strowman cashes in or Brock wins and Strowman cashes in. You could also have the Seth Rollins option for when both guys are down and they make it a triple threat match
If you're going to go all in with Braun you need to think outside the box. You want to make this man why not have him say he's cashing in at Wrestlemania since that hasn't been done in terms of planning your match so far ahead of time
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Jun 17, 2018 23:54:20 GMT -5
That’s a really good point about Braun doing the usual cash-in. It really would kneecap the whole idea of what he’s supposed to be.
And I suppose, while I’m still a fan and his booking doesn’t bother me, why he maybe wasn’t the best choice to hold the briefcase.
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Post by thegame415 on Jun 17, 2018 23:54:26 GMT -5
Here it comes...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 23:59:02 GMT -5
I think I do. I never watched or played Pokémon. I'm old. Someone needs to get this man a gameboy 10 packs of batteries that you will run through in 2 hours and Pokemon Red
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 0:00:17 GMT -5
I guess if they were thinking outside of the box (ha!) the cash in could be used to contratually "force" Lesnar into wrestling on a date he wasn't going to be present for. But honestly I don't give WWE that much credit. I'm just looking at it from a very basic business position. To me MITB was built to promise a future Lesnar/Strowman match. If they fail to deliver, you won't see me defending it again. Yea, that's why I said I think they mostly did this to make the title shot "legit" If WWE is smart you have Strowman say Lesnar is fighting me on X day and he better be ready. However, a part of me can't help but shake that they will do this the regular way cash in for when the guy is down or just finished a match and you have Braun pick the bones The worst things they can do is have Roman win the belt and Strowman cashes in or Brock wins and Strowman cashes in. You could also have the Seth Rollins option for when both guys are down and they make it a triple threat match If you're going to go all in with Braun you need to think outside the box. You want to make this man why not have him say he's cashing in at Wrestlemania since that hasn't been done in terms of planning your match so far ahead of time
If I were the WWE I'd have Strowman say he's cashing in at WM and whoever's champion better be ready. You could have Lesnar beaten by guys like Rollins or whoever, just cycle the belt until WM season and then at WM time regardless of who's champion and if a Raw guy won the Rumble, Strowman's having a match that night and he wins the title. It gives others a chance with the belt before Strowman starts his long ass reign.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 18, 2018 0:05:18 GMT -5
Yea, that's why I said I think they mostly did this to make the title shot "legit" If WWE is smart you have Strowman say Lesnar is fighting me on X day and he better be ready. However, a part of me can't help but shake that they will do this the regular way cash in for when the guy is down or just finished a match and you have Braun pick the bones The worst things they can do is have Roman win the belt and Strowman cashes in or Brock wins and Strowman cashes in. You could also have the Seth Rollins option for when both guys are down and they make it a triple threat match If you're going to go all in with Braun you need to think outside the box. You want to make this man why not have him say he's cashing in at Wrestlemania since that hasn't been done in terms of planning your match so far ahead of time
If I were the WWE I'd have Strowman say he's cashing in at WM and whoever's champion better be ready. You could have Lesnar beaten by guys like Rollins or whoever, just cycle the belt until WM season and then at WM time regardless of who's champion and if a Raw guy won the Rumble, Strowman's having a match that night and he wins the title. It gives others a chance with the belt before Strowman starts his long ass reign. Or hell make it a triple threat which would be the big babyface thing to do
Strowman can be like I said I would cash in at Mania and whether it's against one man or 10 i'm getting my title shot. That's the "stupid babyface" thing to do but with how confident he is and how much he's destroyed people you could play if off as confidence
Plus with Strowman announcing his title shot so early it frees him up to do other stuff and even go after other belts like the IC or tag without fear of him being stuck there. They got a few ways to play this but they can always go lazy and f*** it all up
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 0:07:54 GMT -5
If I were the WWE I'd have Strowman say he's cashing in at WM and whoever's champion better be ready. You could have Lesnar beaten by guys like Rollins or whoever, just cycle the belt until WM season and then at WM time regardless of who's champion and if a Raw guy won the Rumble, Strowman's having a match that night and he wins the title. It gives others a chance with the belt before Strowman starts his long ass reign. Or hell make it a triple threat which would be the big babyface thing to do Strowman can be like I said I would cash in at Mania and whether it's against one man or 10 i'm getting my title shot. That's the "stupid babyface" thing to do but with how confident he is and how much he's destroyed people you could play if off as confidence Plus with Strowman announcing his title shot so early it frees him up to do other stuff and even go after other belts like the IC or tag without fear of him being stuck there. They got a few ways to play this but they can always go lazy and f*** it all up
You also gotta think about this. If Lesnar's run is this long, how long is Strowman holding that belt and who's beating him who's not Reigns? I'm dreading it.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Jun 18, 2018 0:13:36 GMT -5
The whole build was him destroying everyone and he literally damn near does the same thing in the match against everyone fighting against him For as much as people complain about Roman you can't say this man isn't OP. He literally just went 1 on everyone else and he f***ing won sheesh
Only Braun's OP makes sense.
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JCBaggee
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Post by JCBaggee on Jun 18, 2018 0:14:39 GMT -5
Braun's booking week to week is hilarious, and I love it. Braun's booking at Pay Per Views is boring, and I'm over it. Braun enters a match. Everyone beats up Braun until he takes a nap in the corner. Braun wakes up refreshed but angry that he didn't get to sleep longer, and proceeds to win the match because he's the tallest and the strongest and the screamiest.
There's a lot of Braun booked to perfection. The ridiculous feats of strength, the mildly self-deprecating humor. Running through the ladder was such a great spot. He shouldn't have won. He shouldn't be winning these matches.
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