Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Jun 23, 2018 17:48:42 GMT -5
Jinder has actually been getting boos since coming to RAW. The "wrong heat" argument is usually garbage.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 23, 2018 18:05:54 GMT -5
Look at the monstrous pop AJ got for finally defeating Jinder. The issue we have now is that the heels are trying to be fun and ending up being faces. I guess I'm just a bit old school, but a good heel to me should be absolutely unlikable. WWE is clearly playing the "insider" audience that feel he isn't worthy by featuring the guy more often. Since his move to RAW I can't think of a RAW where his promos didn't get any heat. And WWE shouldn't be playing the "insider" audience by pushing a heel that thanks to being shite in ring and on the mic, gets heat. Considering that AJ is a popular face, he would have gotten a big pop for winning the title off a good heel, and that pop was relief that the Vein Eventer's abominable run with the title was finally over, not that he had finally got his.
"Unlikable" and "Fun to Boo" are not, and really shouldn't be, mutually exclusive. |
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Jun 23, 2018 18:11:21 GMT -5
Jinder isn't even that bad on the ring and has been a decent promo. He also has been getting boos. There isn't really any reason to try to downplay him as a heel other than some saltiness over his WWE title run, which is in the rearview mirror at this point.
When you try to explain what everyone in the crowd was apparently thinking it starts to come off as projection. WWE has no reason not to keep Jinder as a upper midcard heel, as he's getting what they want out of him.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jun 23, 2018 18:17:35 GMT -5
Jinder is salvageable now. I think they could make him a top heel for Raw but something still feels missing with him.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 23, 2018 21:22:49 GMT -5
Jinder is salvageable now. I think they could make him a top heel for Raw but something still feels missing with him. Talent mostly. Jinder sucks. |
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jun 23, 2018 21:54:20 GMT -5
Jinder is salvageable now. I think they could make him a top heel for Raw but something still feels missing with him. Talent mostly. Jinder sucks. Talent can be worked around, especially today when everyone else can go. I'm just talking his packaging and character here. Something big is still lacking that would make him feel like anything other than a midcarder. |
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Post by Topher is Human on Jun 23, 2018 22:01:45 GMT -5
RAW had two bonafide main event level heels who could carry the brand, in Samoa Joe and Miz and then moved them both to Smackdown, which already had Shinsuke Nakamura.
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BigAl
Unicron
Hands of the Wicked Banana
Posts: 2,851
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Post by BigAl on Jun 23, 2018 23:13:52 GMT -5
what about The Sea Creature? I have no idea who that is. The next universal champ |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 24, 2018 0:07:28 GMT -5
Jinder has actually been getting boos since coming to RAW. The "wrong heat" argument is usually garbage. I won’t try and dismiss any argument, but I’d just like to ask how people can tell what the difference is, because it all sounds the same to me. |
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Not related to Phantasmo
Posts: 15,784
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Jun 24, 2018 1:00:01 GMT -5
The thing is, and i stated this before, the problem is that the top heel needs to be top of the f***ing food chain.
You have the company itself, Vince, Stephanie, HHH, Shane, Kurt, Paige, whatever company pet humanitarium/hey look at me project, show stipulation theme that is scheduled, Roman Reigns forever push, asskissing of Brock Lesnar, and then the titles.
How can you have a champ get over?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 24, 2018 1:05:11 GMT -5
The fact is there is no champion there makes pretty much everything pointless as no one has anything really to fight for.
So it's hard for anyone to get over, especially when again you've been trying to build Roman up putting him over heels... so he is on another level to them...
so no one is on his level... and then Brock is higher than him.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,809
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Jun 24, 2018 3:47:16 GMT -5
Jason Jordan is due to come back, if that helps. You want a good wrestler who actually gets heel heat, he’s ya boi.
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Post by Aboutreika18 on Jun 24, 2018 5:56:03 GMT -5
That's what happens when your top heels have been The Authority for years and you haven't bothered to build anyone else up to replace them when they're off TV.
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Post by IMPRESSIVE knightwing1047 on Jun 24, 2018 7:50:04 GMT -5
what about The Sea Creature? OH LAWDD!! |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 24, 2018 12:23:35 GMT -5
Talent mostly. Jinder sucks. Talent can be worked around, especially today when everyone else can go. I'm just talking his packaging and character here. Something big is still lacking that would make him feel like anything other than a midcarder. Right, I agree there. I'll even say the poor guy tries his best; there's just not that 'it' that guys have. |
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Post by bootytea on Jun 24, 2018 12:34:28 GMT -5
Look at the monstrous pop AJ got for finally defeating Jinder. The issue we have now is that the heels are trying to be fun and ending up being faces. I guess I'm just a bit old school, but a good heel to me should be absolutely unlikable. WWE is clearly playing the "insider" audience that feel he isn't worthy by featuring the guy more often. Since his move to RAW I can't think of a RAW where his promos didn't get any heat. And WWE shouldn't be playing the "insider" audience by pushing a heel that thanks to being shite in ring and on the mic, gets heat. Considering that AJ is a popular face, he would have gotten a big pop for winning the title off a good heel, and that pop was relief that the Vein Eventer's abominable run with the title was finally over, not that he had finally got his.
"Unlikable" and "Fun to Boo" are not, and really shouldn't be, mutually exclusive. Since getting a main event spot, the only shit matches I've seen him in involved Shinsuke or the Punjabi Prison match. The other matches have been average to good in my opinion. To say his mic work is shit is something I can not agree with either because he does the best with the material he is given. WWE kinda has to work the "insiders" because there a loud portion of the crowd that wants to be cool and go against the narrative. Jinder was the perfect choice for a top heel that people despised. It was a unique combination of casual viewers not liking the character and "smarks" not liking that WWE didn't choose the heels they adore. Going against a heel that gets universal heat is far more valuable for a face. When a face is up against a despised heel, it's no longer about who can say "bitch" more or look bad ass, but it's about a genuinely good person conquering an asshole. That's the way I prefer wrestling to be quite honestly. I love me some clean cut babyfaces and abhorrent heels. |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 24, 2018 12:55:52 GMT -5
WWE kinda has to work the "insiders" because there a loud portion of the crowd that wants to be cool and go against the narrative. Jinder was the perfect choice for a top heel that people despised. It was a unique combination of casual viewers not liking the character and "smarks" not liking that WWE didn't choose the heels they adore. Going against a heel that gets universal heat is far more valuable for a face. When a face is up against a despised heel, it's no longer about who can say "bitch" more or look bad ass, but it's about a genuinely good person conquering an asshole. That's the way I prefer wrestling to be quite honestly. I love me some clean cut babyfaces and abhorrent heels. Jinder was a f***ing awful choice for a top heel. His in ring work, his work on the mic and making sure that it wasn't possible to watch the program in HD were reasons why. And as for viewers, there was only one needle he was moving, which had nothing to do with ratings.
WWE doesn't have to, and shouldn't be trying to work the insiders by pushing dudes that get X-Pac heat and X-Pac heat only. And WWE main roster wise, seemingly cannot do what you are describing in the second paragraph on a consistent basis.
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