Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,518
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jun 23, 2018 9:38:31 GMT -5
I was just thinking about this during another unpleasant day at work and while I was formulating my response to the "Vince Gives You The Keys To Creative" thread.
Not counting Lesnar since he's hardly ever there or commentary or "Creative" since they don't compete, there are no top heels on RAW: Owens is so damaged that he needs a turn to be a top anything, Zayn is hurt and isn't higher than the midcard right now, Elias is upper midcard, and Mahal and Ziggler are not top guys. Hell, at the moment, RAW's top heel is ALEXA F***ING BLISS!
I know a lot of us, myself included, have beaten the "Roman needs to turn heel" point into the Earth's core, but for crying out loud, we need that and possibly more and we need it badly.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jun 23, 2018 9:41:18 GMT -5
what about The Sea Creature?
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,518
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jun 23, 2018 9:49:22 GMT -5
what about The Sea Creature? I have no idea who that is.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 23, 2018 9:51:32 GMT -5
Raw has no top heel or top babyface really. I have a theory that WWE is trying to make the women's stuff seem better by deliberately tanking the creative for the men. I guess you could argue Strowman has become the top face but I think he's a bit limited in that appeal. It's a shapeless roster whose top star is MIA 80% of the time. There is no midcard to speak of even if you wanted to demote Reigns.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 23, 2018 9:52:35 GMT -5
Adding to the frustration, WWE actually have two dudes that could knock it out of the park as top heels - Lashley (the dominant boss champion that TNA actually booked reasonably well) and Bobby Roode (his 2011-2014 run as the It Factor was excellent as a dude that would do anything to keep the title), but both of them are in the midst of wet fart face runs.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jun 23, 2018 9:53:18 GMT -5
Exactly why Dean Ambrose needs to turn heel as soon as he comes back.
Would be great for both Raw and for Ambrose himself, IMO.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 23, 2018 9:53:35 GMT -5
Maybe this is to pave the way for an Ambrose heel turn.
When Seth won dirty the other night I thought he was being set up to turn again.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Cronant on Jun 23, 2018 10:12:20 GMT -5
Smackdown isn't that much better, since Nak lost. Joe is still kinda there.
We are pretty close to both Womens Champs being the top heels of their shows.
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Post by bootytea on Jun 23, 2018 13:48:07 GMT -5
Jinder Mahal is honestly their only top heel. You could make the argument for Kevin Owens.
The problem is that a vocal portion of the audience start marking for people that are trying to get heat.
Jinder is the only one I know who can be universally hated by the audience when he is supposed to be. That is quite impressive nowadays.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jun 23, 2018 14:06:14 GMT -5
Raw sent their top heel to Smackdown.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 23, 2018 15:01:45 GMT -5
Jinder Mahal is honestly their only top heel. You could make the argument for Kevin Owens. The problem is that a vocal portion of the audience start marking for people that are trying to get heat. Jinder is the only one I know who can be universally hated by the audience when he is supposed to be. That is quite impressive nowadays. Kevin Owens is dead in the water as a heel at the moment - one of the worst title reigns in WWE history will do that. As for the vein eventer, most of his heat is the X-Pac type.
As for universally hated by the audience, Elias can garner those reactions, and while there are some who will cheer for him, Tommaso Ciampa gets incredible heel heat in NXT. Its not the vocal portion of the audience that is the problem - the problem is the writing of both the heels and faces.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Jun 23, 2018 15:39:38 GMT -5
Their only heel with the capcity to be the Top Heel is Owens. Not the babyface situation is any better,their most hot faces are Strowman and Rollins. ROllins is on midcard so he is not a top one. Strowman depends on how they book from now on. Jinder Mahal is honestly their only top heel. You could make the argument for Kevin Owens. The problem is that a vocal portion of the audience start marking for people that are trying to get heat. Jinder is the only one I know who can be universally hated by the audience when he is supposed to be. That is quite impressive nowadays. Apathy is not really hate.Ciampa or Elias are much closer
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jun 23, 2018 15:44:52 GMT -5
But guys, Roman gets booed so he's already the top heel.
/WWE logic
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
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Post by schizo on Jun 23, 2018 15:57:58 GMT -5
Booking opinion aside, based on how they're protrayed on TV this is how I see it...
RAW Top Faces: Seth Rollins Braun Strowman Finn Balor Roman Reigns Bobby Lashley
Top Heels: Jinder Mahal Kevin Owens Elias Dolph Ziggler Drew Mcintyre Baron Corbin
SDL Top Faces: AJ Styles Daniel Bryan Jeff Hardy Rusev?
Top Heels: Nakamura Samoa Joe The Miz
Pretty cut and dry to me IMO
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Post by bootytea on Jun 23, 2018 16:07:00 GMT -5
Jinder Mahal is honestly their only top heel. You could make the argument for Kevin Owens. The problem is that a vocal portion of the audience start marking for people that are trying to get heat. Jinder is the only one I know who can be universally hated by the audience when he is supposed to be. That is quite impressive nowadays. Kevin Owens is dead in the water as a heel at the moment - one of the worst title reigns in WWE history will do that. As for the vein eventer, most of his heat is the X-Pac type.
As for universally hated by the audience, Elias can garner those reactions, and while there are some who will cheer for him, Tommaso Ciampa gets incredible heel heat in NXT. Its not the vocal portion of the audience that is the problem - the problem is the writing of both the heels and faces. Kevin Owens still entertains me at times, but he is kind of floundering right now. Heat is heat to me. I always found the whole "X-Pac heat" thing to be ridiculous. It would be far worse for the audience to sit there and not care or leave to get concessions. I also forgot about Elias getting heat as well, but he needs to stop playing to the crowd. Haven't seen Tommaso since the Takeover where he betrayed Gargano, but I'm quite certain he will constantly be cheered once he moves onto the main roster. It seems the only way to get heat from the audience is to be a guy like Jinder or Roman because they were selected by the establishment to have prominent roles. Their only heel with the capcity to be the Top Heel is Owens. Not the babyface situation is any better,their most hot faces are Strowman and Rollins. ROllins is on midcard so he is not a top one. Strowman depends on how they book from now on. Jinder Mahal is honestly their only top heel. You could make the argument for Kevin Owens. The problem is that a vocal portion of the audience start marking for people that are trying to get heat. Jinder is the only one I know who can be universally hated by the audience when he is supposed to be. That is quite impressive nowadays. Apathy is not really hate.Ciampa or Elias are much closer If apathy is getting the crowd to boo you on a consistent basis, Jinder is great at it. I understand if you dislike the guy, but people are more invested to see him get his ass kicked than most of the heels on RAW.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 23, 2018 16:36:06 GMT -5
Kevin Owens is dead in the water as a heel at the moment - one of the worst title reigns in WWE history will do that. As for the vein eventer, most of his heat is the X-Pac type.
As for universally hated by the audience, Elias can garner those reactions, and while there are some who will cheer for him, Tommaso Ciampa gets incredible heel heat in NXT. Its not the vocal portion of the audience that is the problem - the problem is the writing of both the heels and faces. Kevin Owens still entertains me at times, but he is kind of floundering right now. Heat is heat to me. I always found the whole "X-Pac heat" thing to be ridiculous. It would be far worse for the audience to sit there and not care or leave to get concessions. I also forgot about Elias getting heat as well, but he needs to stop playing to the crowd. Haven't seen Tommaso since the Takeover where he betrayed Gargano, but I'm quite certain he will constantly be cheered once he moves onto the main roster. It seems the only way to get heat from the audience is to be a guy like Jinder or Roman because they were selected by the establishment to have prominent roles. Their only heel with the capcity to be the Top Heel is Owens. Not the babyface situation is any better,their most hot faces are Strowman and Rollins. ROllins is on midcard so he is not a top one. Strowman depends on how they book from now on. Apathy is not really hate.Ciampa or Elias are much closer If apathy is getting the crowd to boo you on a consistent basis, Jinder is great at it. I understand if you dislike the guy, but people are more invested to see him get his ass kicked than most of the heels on RAW. Good heat is like a nice campfire, while X-Pac heat is like a microwave that has caught fire. One is desireable, the other should be avoided at all costs and if performers are getting it, then their writing should be changed, or taken off the TV. It should be fun to boo heels and want them to get beat, not a chore when you just want them to f*** off.
If the writing of faces and heels was better, then people would be far more invested in seeing the heels get theirs. And if that actually happened, then such an awful performer such as Jinder (who only gets booed because the audience want him to f*** off) would be sent back to developmental, not positioned as he is now.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 23, 2018 16:36:47 GMT -5
I guess maybe they're trying to set up the Ziggler/McIntyre duo as a main event act which would explain Ziggler's random IC title win. If Brock could be bothered to show up or if they would just finally turn Reigns heel they would actually have a pretty strong heel roster as the heels they do have at the moment are all good upper mid card guys. Just none of them are main eventers for variety of reasons. Mahal has the look but lacks the ability, Owens has the ability but lacks the look, Elias and Corbin have gimmicks that work well in the midcard but aren't suited for main event, Ziggler lacks credibility from so man stop and starts and being around too long, and McIntyre hasn't built up enough credibility yet due to not being around long enough with him just coming back.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,713
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Post by Nosnorb on Jun 23, 2018 16:39:41 GMT -5
McIntyre hasn't built up enough credibility yet due to not being around long enough with him just coming back. And to a large proportion of the audience, he is the guy that got hardly any heat when Vince McMahon wasn't around during his first run and was part of the jobber stable 3MB.
It will take time to build up the cred of Drew, but its worth it, considering the dude has the look and the skill.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 23, 2018 16:46:05 GMT -5
I understand if you dislike the guy, but people are more invested to see him get his ass kicked than most of the heels on RAW. Jinder RARELY gets boos. He almost always comes out to crickets... and leaves to crickets. Dude is not a top anything.
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Post by bootytea on Jun 23, 2018 17:07:38 GMT -5
Kevin Owens still entertains me at times, but he is kind of floundering right now. Heat is heat to me. I always found the whole "X-Pac heat" thing to be ridiculous. It would be far worse for the audience to sit there and not care or leave to get concessions. I also forgot about Elias getting heat as well, but he needs to stop playing to the crowd. Haven't seen Tommaso since the Takeover where he betrayed Gargano, but I'm quite certain he will constantly be cheered once he moves onto the main roster. It seems the only way to get heat from the audience is to be a guy like Jinder or Roman because they were selected by the establishment to have prominent roles. If apathy is getting the crowd to boo you on a consistent basis, Jinder is great at it. I understand if you dislike the guy, but people are more invested to see him get his ass kicked than most of the heels on RAW. Good heat is like a nice campfire, while X-Pac heat is like a microwave that has caught fire. One is desireable, the other should be avoided at all costs and if performers are getting it, then their writing should be changed, or taken off the TV. It should be fun to boo heels and want them to get beat, not a chore when you just want them to f*** off.
If the writing of faces and heels was better, then people would be far more invested in seeing the heels get theirs. And if that actually happened, then such an awful performer such as Jinder (who only gets booed because the audience want him to f*** off) would be sent back to developmental, not positioned as he is now.
The whole idea of a heel isn't for it to be fun though. Guys like Iron Sheik were absolutely despised by the audience for more reasons unrelated to being fun. Look at the monstrous pop AJ got for finally defeating Jinder. The issue we have now is that the heels are trying to be fun and ending up being faces. I guess I'm just a bit old school, but a good heel to me should be absolutely unlikable. WWE is clearly playing the "insider" audience that feel he isn't worthy by featuring the guy more often. I understand if you dislike the guy, but people are more invested to see him get his ass kicked than most of the heels on RAW. Jinder RARELY gets boos. He almost always comes out to crickets... and leaves to crickets. Dude is not a top anything. Hmm, the RAW's I've been watching sounded like Jinder was getting quite a bit of heat. Since his move to RAW I can't think of a RAW where his promos didn't get any heat.
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