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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 17:38:56 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I got goosebumps when the Emperor laughed at the end.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 13, 2019 17:41:30 GMT -5
The ones I end up rewatching the most are the original and Return of the Jedi. Though I also like rewatching ROTS for the memes. Empire is fourth or so. Though since The Force Awakens and Rogue One have been on basic cable, I end up rewatching those whenever they're on. I'll probably do the same for Last Jedi. And I always like to marathon the main movies (even Episodes I and II) before the release of a numbered movie. Not sure if I'll add Rogue One or Solo to it before TROS comes out. I've also been meaning to watch the movies in the Machete Order (IV > V > II > III > VI > VII > VIII) one day.
What exactly is the point of the Machete Order? I could never fully grasp it. It's to maintain the surprise of the twist that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker while also informing the audience of just who Anakin Skywalker was as a Jedi, thus adding more emotional weight to his eventual redemption and appearance as a Force Ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi. And in the case of watching the special editions of the original trilogy, giving context to Hayden Christiansen's appearance as Force Ghost Anakin to a first time viewer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 17:50:26 GMT -5
Should Solo, or at least Rogue One be watched at the beginning of Machete Order?
I've read and heard about Machete Order before, but this thread has finally inspired me to do it.
Also, Phantom Menace is really the only Star Wars movie I don't like, so it kinda works out.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 13, 2019 18:08:30 GMT -5
Should Solo, or at least Rogue One be watched at the beginning of Machete Order? I'd put Rogue One first, for obvious reasons. Solo, much as I like it, really doesn't have a place as it detracts from the Han, Chewie and Lando's first appearances in the main saga.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 13, 2019 18:33:59 GMT -5
Should Solo, or at least Rogue One be watched at the beginning of Machete Order? I've read and heard about Machete Order before, but this thread has finally inspired me to do it. Also, Phantom Menace is really the only Star Wars movie I don't like, so it kinda works out. According to the person who created it, any of the side projects like Rogue One, Solo, Clone Wars, Rebels, etc. can be watched afterwards. In spite of where they are on the timeline, they aren't necessary to the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader or Luke's journey in redeeming him.
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kevin
El Dandy
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Post by kevin on Apr 13, 2019 19:08:32 GMT -5
TLJ i will NEVER watch again. A mediocre movie in a series I can do. A mediocre movie with plot holes, inconsistencies, no character loyalty, and that is SO LONG is just not worth the time. This is such a bizarre take. The Last Jedi is an incredible good movie and is probably the best Star Wars movie ever made, only Empire Strikes back is close. There are no plot holes in the film and the characters follow there progression from previous films perfectly. That is why even though this was an incredible trailer, I am still worried. I already know there is no way it will be a good as The Last Jedi but it still has to be a great film while also wrapping up not just this trilogy but the story of all nine films.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 13, 2019 21:37:35 GMT -5
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Post by Duke Cameron on Apr 13, 2019 22:16:08 GMT -5
I outright hated Empire as a kid. It took me until I was much older to really appreciate it. Outside of Hoth. I still find it really boring. RotJ was my favorite as a kid it still is. Same. I love Hoth, but Empire really doesn’t do anything for me after that. Return of the Jedi has always been my favorite.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Apr 14, 2019 0:53:43 GMT -5
TLJ i will NEVER watch again. A mediocre movie in a series I can do. A mediocre movie with plot holes, inconsistencies, no character loyalty, and that is SO LONG is just not worth the time. This is such a bizarre take. The Last Jedi is an incredible good movie and is probably the best Star Wars movie ever made, only Empire Strikes back is close. There are no plot holes in the film and the characters follow there progression from previous films perfectly. That is why even though this was an incredible trailer, I am still worried. I already know there is no way it will be a good as The Last Jedi but it still has to be a great film while also wrapping up not just this trilogy but the story of all nine films. I completely agree. All the complaints about plot holes or stuff not being fully explained is utterly baffling to me. I cannot understand how an adult Star Wars fan could possibly make those complaints in good faith. Look at the original trilogy. And I mean *just* the original trilogy. Only what's shown on screen. *Nothing* outside of the main narrative is explained at *at all* and for a very simple reason. I doesn't matter to the story being told. For all the complaints about Snoke, at least his NAME was used on screen a few times. The original trilogy never even gave the Emperor a name. The word "Sith" was never used. I don't think "apprentice" ever was either, in regards to Vader. We never learned what the hell happened to turn Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader. We never learned how Luke's sister wound up the princess of an entire planet. The only thing ever said about Luke and Leia's mother is that she was "beautiful but sad". We never learned who or what the Stormtroopers were. Because, again, none of that was terribly important to the story of Luke Skywalker overthrowing an evil empire. All I can think of is that, for Star Wars fans of a certain age, the answer to literally *EVERY* question one could think to ask has had an answer in the form of novels, comics, cartoons, video games, or other media. That Last Jedi (part 2 of a 3 part story) left them with unanswered questions is strange new territory. Questions like "Who was Snoke?" or "If hitting light speed while pointing at an unstoppable battleship is a one-hit kill, why hasn't it been done before?" or "What was up with Super-Leia?" don't have answers yet. But they will. They *absolutely* will. Maybe in the excellent Marvel comics, in a spin-off show, in a novel, on a Galaxy's Edge ride, or in some other way (like, I dunno, the last movie in this trilogy?)...all those unanswered questions WILL be answered. As to the Mary Sue thing... Yeah. Again. I cannot understand how that can be said in good faith. Luke "used the force" to blow up the Death Star after what seemed to be an afternoon of "training" from Obi-Wan. Rey held her own against a critically wounded, emotionally wrecked, Kylo Ren because she had a lifetime of experience using melee weapons AND the melee weapon she was currently holding threw him even farther off guard. She could pilot the Falcon because, again, lifetime of experience with machines and that was old-ass technology. It'd be like a modern 20 year old being able to figure out an Atari 2600 game. Not a super steep learning curve. I loved Last Jedi. It's my favorite of the series. Even I don't think it's a perfect movie. There's a ton of stuff I liked, some I didn't. But I can't very well complain about "plot holes" and "unanswered questions" before the trilogy is finished, especially considering how Star Wars has *always* operated.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Apr 14, 2019 1:14:11 GMT -5
At times, I kinda feel that the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument is one that’s borne out of certain people hating the idea that the “main” hero of Star Wars is a woman. Some of those people choosing to harass Daisy Ridley on social media because she’s in Star Wars doesn’t help dispel that notion.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Apr 14, 2019 2:24:50 GMT -5
TLJ i will NEVER watch again. A mediocre movie in a series I can do. A mediocre movie with plot holes, inconsistencies, no character loyalty, and that is SO LONG is just not worth the time. This is such a bizarre take. The Last Jedi is an incredible good movie and is probably the best Star Wars movie ever made, only Empire Strikes back is close. There are no plot holes in the film and the characters follow there progression from previous films perfectly. That is why even though this was an incredible trailer, I am still worried. I already know there is no way it will be a good as The Last Jedi but it still has to be a great film while also wrapping up not just this trilogy but the story of all nine films. You're the Jar Jar Binks of Star Wars fans
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Apr 14, 2019 6:00:19 GMT -5
At times, I kinda feel that the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument is one that’s borne out of certain people hating the idea that the “main” hero of Star Wars is a woman. Some of those harassinf Daisy Ridley on social media doesn’t help dispel that notion. That's pretty much the heart of it unfortunately. Which is a shame because no matter how meh I've been about the new trilogy, the characters have been excellent, for the most part that is. Rey and Poe have been fantastic so far. Though that could also be because a lot of my favorite characters before the Disney buy out were characters from the X-Wing novels.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 14, 2019 8:12:26 GMT -5
I’ve seen too many people say that the people that dislike Last Jedi don’t have a real reason to or that they’re just haters or they’re trolling. This is simply not true. One of the biggest problems with the movie is the lack of respect for the Star Wars universe itself. And no, I don’t mean its fans, but that works too. If you are a fan of Star Wars it really isn’t that hard to see why so many Star Wars fans do not like the movie.
I’ve seen some people mention they felt surprised by some of the language. That didn’t bother me as much as the usage of words that just took me out of the moment. Finn saying the word cops, for example. It probably would’ve been better to go with the word security. I know it sounds like nitpicking, but I’ll give another example. That whole exchange with Poe and Hux where Poe says he’s on hold. Telephone slang in the Star Wars universe? Since when? That’s the kind of stuff that makes me feel like I’m not watching a Star Wars movie. It destroys my suspension of disbelief.
Even the reactions from a lot of the first order felt off. The AT-AT commander asking Hux if he think he got him after firing on Luke. The officer telling Hux that he thinks Poe is tooling wth him during their “prank call” exchange. Even Hux going along with it felt unnatural for a Star Wars movie. I get that Poe’s a bit of a jokester. That was established in Force Awakens with his “So, who talks first? You talk first? I talk first?” line with Kylo. When did everyone else become so funny?
There were too many poor one liners and attempts at comedy that just took me right out of the movie. Those are the kind of spots that are added to a crappy comedy to try to get cheap pops. The kind of stuff a studio thinks will get people talking because a line was memorable. It’s really not what most people expect from a Star Wars movie. We’re supposed to be in a galaxy far far away. Don’t take me out of that universe for cheap pops.
The casino planet felt unnecessary. The bad GCI was rough. The little hammered alien trying to use BB8 as a slot machine with a few coins was kind of funny but then BB8 attacking the guards with what seemed like hundreds of coins was absolutely ridiculous and made no sense whatsoever. I get they had to establish the kids. They also wanted to make a point about war profiteering but there could’ve been easier ways to get that over. Finn telling Benecio’s character that he doesn’t know what Rose’s necklace meant to her. Finn didn’t know either. That was never established in any dialogue between them. Then the out of nowhere romantic feelings Rose has for Finn. The movie didn’t earn that moment. Not at all.
Thought they were reaching making a big deal out of the dice from the millennium falcon with Luke and Leia. I just wasn’t feeling the moment. I thought they were reaching with the Leia message from R2 to Luke because it felt like fan service, but it got Luke to come back so I guess it works. I didn’t even get into the miracle spot with Leia or that force ghost Yoda can’t interfere yet he’s blowing up a tree and acting like a goof when force ghosts only appeared when they were needed and always took a serious tone. I can see why people hated those things too.
Even Mark Hamill trashed the movie and said it wasn’t going to be what Star Wars fans wanted. It was a bad look for a beloved Star Wars character to be ripping apart the movie and potentially driving away its target audience. He probably had a meeting or got a call from Disney telling him billions were on the line for him, Disney and the people who worked on the movie so shut up and spin your story. He did. He said he was wrong and acted like he saw the light. Apologists will tell you those are his true feelings but they’re not. He gave those already. He did what he had to do for business. Apologists will tell you he doesn’t need the money. Maybe not but I’m sure he’s happy to set up his family for life. He was going to do what he was told with another job from Disney coming up. He didn’t want to ruin a payday for his friends either. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money and running. Old school fans will always have the original trilogy. He’s just cashing out. I can’t knock the hustle but I respect that initial moment of honesty and I believe we’ll be hearing it again once he’s off the hook from any more Disney projects. The point is even Mark Hamill could see the problems with the movie.
There were a lot of things I liked about Last Jedi but there were too many moments that just shatter the illusion of being caught up in the world of Star Wars. Sure, it made great money because it’s got the Star Wars brand name attached to it, but it could’ve made a whole lot more if more care was put into it. Disney is getting very close to polished turd territory if they keep going down a road that doesn’t respect the established content and continues to go for bad comedy. If you stop caring about how you present a property, especially one as loved as Star Wars, eventually your audience will stop caring too.
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Post by Clint Bobski on Apr 14, 2019 9:20:07 GMT -5
I’ve seen too many people say that the people that dislike Last Jedi don’t have a real reason too or that they’re just haters or they’re trolling. This is simply not true. One of the biggest problems with the movie is the lack of respect for the Star Wars universe itself. And no, I don’t mean its fans, but that works too. If you are a fan of Star Wars it really isn’t that hard to see why so many Star Wars fans do not like the movie. I’ve seen some people mention they felt surprised by some of the language. That didn’t bother me as much as the usage of words that just took me out of the moment. Finn saying the word cops, for example. It probably would’ve been better to go with the word security. I know it sounds like nitpicking, but I’ll give another example. That whole exchange with Poe and Hux where Poe says he’s on hold. Telephone slang in the Star Wars universe? Since when? That’s the kind of stuff that makes me feel like I’m not watching a Star Wars movie. It destroys my suspension of disbelief. Even the reactions from a lot of the first order felt off. The AT-AT commander asking Hux if he think he got him after firing on Luke. The officer telling Hux that he thinks Poe is tooling wth him during their “prank call” exchange. Even Hux going along with it felt unnatural for a Star Wars movie. I get that Poe’s a bit of a jokester. That was established in Force Awakens with his “So, who talks first? You talk first? I talk first?” line with Kylo. When did everyone else become so funny? There were too many poor one liners and attempts at comedy that just took me right out of the movie. Those are the kind of spots that are added to a crappy comedy to try to get cheap pops. The kind of stuff a studio thinks will get people talking because a line was memorable. It’s really not what most people expect from a Star Wars movie. We’re supposed to be in a galaxy far far away. Don’t take me out of that universe for cheap pops. The casino planet felt unnecessary. The bad GCI was rough. The little hammered alien trying to use BB8 as a slot machine with a few coins was kind of funny but then BB8 attacking the guards with what seemed like hundreds of coins was absolutely ridiculous and made no sense whatsoever. I get they had to establish the kids. They also wanted to make a point about war profiteering but there could’ve been easier ways to get that over. Finn telling Benecio’s character that he doesn’t know what Rose’s necklace meant to her. Finn didn’t know either. That was never established in any dialogue between them. Then the out of nowhere romantic feelings Rose has for Finn. The movie didn’t earn that moment. Not at all. Thought they were reaching making a big deal out of the dice from the millennium falcon with Luke and Leia. I just wasn’t feeling the moment. I thought they were reaching with the Leia message from R2 to Luke because it felt like fan service, but it got Luke to come back so I guess it works. I didn’t even get into the miracle spot with Leia or that force ghost Yoda can’t interfere yet he’s blowing up a tree and acting like a goof when force ghosts only appeared when they were needed and always took a serious tone. I can see why people hated those things too. Even Mark Hamill trashed the movie and said it wasn’t going to be what Star Wars fans wanted. It was a bad look for a beloved Star Wars character to be ripping apart the movie and potentially driving away its target audience. He probably had a meeting or got a call from Disney telling him billions were on the line for him, Disney and the people who worked on the movie so shut up and spin your story. He did. He said he was wrong and acted like he saw the light. Apologists will tell you those are his true feelings but they’re not. He gave those already. He did what he had to do for business. Apologists will tell you he doesn’t need the money. Maybe not but I’m sure he’s happy to set up his family for life. He was going to do what he was told with another job from Disney coming up. He didn’t want to ruin a payday for his friends either. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money and running. Old school fans will always have the original trilogy. He’s just cashing out. I can’t knock the hustle but I respect that initial moment of honesty and I believe we’ll be hearing it again once he’s off the hook from any more Disney projects. The point is even Mark Hamill could see the problems with the movie. There were a lot of things I liked about Last Jedi but there were too many moments that just shatter the illusion of being caught up in the world of Star Wars. Sure, it made great money because it’s got the Star Wars brand name attached to it, but it could’ve made a whole lot more if more care was put into it. Disney is getting very close to polished turd territory if they keep going down a road that doesn’t respect the established content and continues to go for bad comedy. If you stop caring about how you present a property, especially one as loved as Star Wars, eventually your audience will stop caring too.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 14, 2019 9:20:10 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but aside from the very justified complaints about the casino shit, a lot of ^^^^ that post just feels like “But it wasn’t MY Star Wars!!! How dare they do things I disagree with!!”
And that’s what it boils down to for me. So many complaints I see about TLJ don’t point out structural flaws, or technical f*** ups, they’re just “But in my head, things wouldn’t be this way!!! Waaa waaa waaa head cannon!!!!” They used modern earth slang!!! Oh no!!! It’s not like when Han used Correllian slang to call Luke “Kid”. Nobody in the original movies used any American based slang, Fuzzball is a term of endearment on Kyshyyyk
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Apr 14, 2019 9:53:17 GMT -5
My main flaw with this trilogy is I just dont care for any of the characters except Kylo Ren.
Rey is just... ok. She lacks the likeability that Luke had.
Poe was cool in TFA but TLJ killed his character. Hes a f***wit. I hope he gets killed off. That phone call scene is the worst ever Star Wars scene. It was painfully unfunny.
Finn just seems directionless. His feud with Phasma is over and felt tacked on anyway. Hes got no story arc now.
Chewie is Chewie. An ok supporting character.
Kylo Ren. He's great.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 10:46:52 GMT -5
TLJ i will NEVER watch again. A mediocre movie in a series I can do. A mediocre movie with plot holes, inconsistencies, no character loyalty, and that is SO LONG is just not worth the time. This is such a bizarre take. The Last Jedi is an incredible good movie and is probably the best Star Wars movie ever made, only Empire Strikes back is close. There are no plot holes in the film and the characters follow there progression from previous films perfectly. That is why even though this was an incredible trailer, I am still worried. I already know there is no way it will be a good as The Last Jedi but it still has to be a great film while also wrapping up not just this trilogy but the story of all nine films. Hi Rian!
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2019 12:24:00 GMT -5
It's not only nitpicking, but nonsensical nitpicking, as "cop" has been previously used as slang in-universe.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 14, 2019 12:50:30 GMT -5
It's not only nitpicking, but nonsensical nitpicking, as "cop" has been previously used as slang in-universe. I don’t recall the word cops being used in the Star Wars universe before but I’ll take your word for it. I still see the movies as a stand alone project. I think most casual fans do too. You only addressed one of my points. Feel free to address my other points in that post too. It’s all rather moot because the movie is Episode VIII. It’s part of a series of iconic movies. If people have to tell others that they should have watched a cartoon or read a book or a comic to understand something in that movie, it’s not really working in that movie’s favor. A very small percentage of viewers are going to care enough to do something like that. People have already invested in several other movies in the series, or at least you would think they have. I understand Disney trashing everything from the old EU and giving you their own material because they want you buying their products to know what’s going on in and around their Star Wars property. They want your money. It’s business. That’s perfectly understandable but I’m only interested in the movies at this point. I didn’t even need the EU to get what was going on in the prequels. They had their share of problems, but they still had a very Star Wars feel to them. If these new movies deviate too far from that enough times, it’s going to turn people off, which is part of the reason this movie has become so polarizing to a lot of people, mainly the hardcore Star Wars fans. A lot of things in the movie just didn’t make any sense. That odd part of the movie during the casino scene where this intoxicated little alien puts a couple coins into BB8 thinking he’s a slot machine. Not too long after that BB8 sprays the guards with a ton of coins. That made zero sense to me. Am I suppose to wait for a comic where BB8 stood there getting filled with coins for a lot longer than we thought he did? No thanks. What I saw in that scene was enough to take me out of the moment.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2019 13:33:44 GMT -5
I don't really care to address the rest of your points because I find them silly, to be perfectly honest. That one just stuck out because not only is it silly, but outright wrong.
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