Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,077
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Apr 14, 2019 13:46:08 GMT -5
Ehhhhhh, my dislike has nothing to do with language usage. I mean, picking apart language opens the bag up to start nitpicking every piece of dialog in all the movies wondering the origin of certain phrases that wouldn't work unless Earth was canon in SW. Never once have I been taken out of a scene because of word usage. My primary complaints have been posted already and imo are not nitpicks. Yoda lighting a tree on fire was weird but I actually liked that scene. Felt like even Yoda knew the Jedi way was outdated and didn't work. His time on Dagobah was probably a lot of introspection. But everyone has their reasons for liking or not liking something so I can't refute what was said. Just that there are apparent flaws within Last Jedi and to a lesser degree Force Awakens, and even those haven't killed my excitement about anything Star Wars related. Rise of Skywalker sounds badass and looks neat so far, can't wait.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2019 13:55:04 GMT -5
We had Sith Lord spirits possessing and murdering people in the old EU and there's a lot of weird shit in even the new, 100% canon EU, so the Force Ghost of a Jedi as ridiculously powerful and wise as Yoda lighting a tree on fire never seemed odd at all to me.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 14:05:28 GMT -5
Even Mark Hamill trashed the movie and said it wasn’t going to be what Star Wars fans wanted. It was a bad look for a beloved Star Wars character to be ripping apart the movie and potentially driving away its target audience. He probably had a meeting or got a call from Disney telling him billions were on the line for him, Disney and the people who worked on the movie so shut up and spin your story. He did. He said he was wrong and acted like he saw the light. Apologists will tell you those are his true feelings but they’re not. He gave those already. He did what he had to do for business. Apologists will tell you he doesn’t need the money. Maybe not but I’m sure he’s happy to set up his family for life. He was going to do what he was told with another job from Disney coming up. He didn’t want to ruin a payday for his friends either. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money and running. Old school fans will always have the original trilogy. He’s just cashing out. I can’t knock the hustle but I respect that initial moment of honesty and I believe we’ll be hearing it again once he’s off the hook from any more Disney projects. The point is even Mark Hamill could see the problems with the movie. Hamill didn't trash the movie, he simply disagreed with the direction chosen to go with Luke. That's fine. Whether he actually did come around after seeing the completed movie or is toeing the company line we'll probably never know, but ultimately it still boils down to the "It's not MY Star Wars" mentality that a previous poster pointed out. Equally, not every actor in the film had the same opinion about the way their character was written as Hamill, but still received the "It's not MY Star Wars" responses.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 14:11:30 GMT -5
Obi Wan and Yoda should have used force ghost lightning powers to cause a power surge in the Death Star cores, thus saving the rebels all the trouble,
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 14, 2019 14:15:20 GMT -5
Even Mark Hamill trashed the movie and said it wasn’t going to be what Star Wars fans wanted. It was a bad look for a beloved Star Wars character to be ripping apart the movie and potentially driving away its target audience. He probably had a meeting or got a call from Disney telling him billions were on the line for him, Disney and the people who worked on the movie so shut up and spin your story. He did. He said he was wrong and acted like he saw the light. Apologists will tell you those are his true feelings but they’re not. He gave those already. He did what he had to do for business. Apologists will tell you he doesn’t need the money. Maybe not but I’m sure he’s happy to set up his family for life. He was going to do what he was told with another job from Disney coming up. He didn’t want to ruin a payday for his friends either. There’s nothing wrong with taking the money and running. Old school fans will always have the original trilogy. He’s just cashing out. I can’t knock the hustle but I respect that initial moment of honesty and I believe we’ll be hearing it again once he’s off the hook from any more Disney projects. The point is even Mark Hamill could see the problems with the movie. Hamill didn't trash the movie, he simply disagreed with the direction chosen to go with Luke. That's fine. Whether he actually did come around after seeing the completed movie or is toeing the company line we'll probably never know, but ultimately it still boils down to the "It's not MY Star Wars" mentality that a previous poster pointed out. Equally, not every actor in the film had the same opinion about the way their character was written as Hamill, but still received the "It's not MY Star Wars" responses. I guess that’s one case of whataboutism involving one fan. I wouldn’t agree with it but whatever. Wasn’t my point. I don’t see it as “Not my Star Wars.” I’ve already explained that my opinion as well as many other fans that didn’t care for the movie see it as disrespecting the established universe that came before it. That was already set. It has nothing to do with me or what I’d want. Stop taking care of that and fans will stop caring too. It’s not hard to understand. That’s why so many have been turned off to Last Jedi. There have been plenty of horror movie sequels that do the same and bomb. They don’t have the luxury of having a brand name like Star Wars attached to it.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 14, 2019 14:33:33 GMT -5
I love Hamil, but he ain't the arbiter of whether I like a Star Wars movie even if he is Luke.
And hell, honestly Last Jedi is his best acting out of the entire series.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 14:36:14 GMT -5
My Star Wars - Rebel leaders calmly and rationally explaining the plans to rebels who then bravely execute said plan even at the cost of their lives.
Not My Star Wars - Inexplicably bitchy admiral refusing to tell her shitty plan to a hot headed man...something something flyboy etc....Rescuing space horses. Milking a land whale. Casino thief, and evil businessmen selling weapons to both sides in a galaxy perpetually at war.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Apr 14, 2019 14:36:52 GMT -5
yoda only said THERE IS ANOTHER to ghost obi wan, because luke wasn't tried and tested enough to face the might of vader, and was pretty much resigned to that probability of training up leia instead ..... even though the wee midget wouldn't DARE tell her she was too old to start training, leia would have slapped him a few times then got on with it so those guys are talking pish and it ISN'T ANYONES STAR WARS it's EVERYONE STAR WARS and i have LOVED how it's gone with the new trilogy and the stand alones
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Post by eJm on Apr 14, 2019 14:38:45 GMT -5
I love Hamil, but he ain't the arbiter of whether I like a Star Wars movie even if he is Luke. And hell, honestly Last Jedi is his best acting out of the entire series. I’d say there’s a really good argument that it’s a career highlight for the guy, and this is the same dude that knocked it out of the park as The Joker on a consistent basis.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Apr 14, 2019 14:41:02 GMT -5
that said CAPTAIN PHASMA GOT SCREWED sod her "not being in the last one ..... take off her helmet, like the DIDN'T tell finn to do, and reveal a nice eye patch ..... and let her KICK ASSINGLY LOOSE!
even to the point of a standalone movie
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Apr 14, 2019 14:41:28 GMT -5
We had Sith Lord spirits possessing and murdering people in the old EU and there's a lot of weird shit in even the new, 100% canon EU, so the Force Ghost of a Jedi as ridiculously powerful and wise as Yoda lighting a tree on fire never seemed odd at all to me. This, and from what we know (unless it's stated otherwise at some point in the new canon) force ghosts are literally...force users going back to being one with the force. You know, the thing that let's them do all their neat tricks that people see and then clap over? Telepathy, telekinesis, mind tricks, lightning, shields, and so on...So, if tapping into that energy let's them do all that, why wouldn't they be able to do stuff like that when they are one with it? It always tracked pretty well for me and why I didn't even blink when Yoda did what he did in TLJ. Similar topic but I always kind of figured, and unless RoS proves otherwise when I watch it it's what I'm assuming is allowing Luke to talk after his death in TLJ, Luke was coming back as a force ghost for the third one. You know, like how Ben did in ESB and RotJ and how Lucas wanted Qui-Gon to in the prequels. It's kind of the Jedi's thing.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 14, 2019 14:43:18 GMT -5
Star Wars, like Wutang, is for the children. You can love it all your life&love parts of it dislike other parts and it not be a big deal.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 14, 2019 14:43:33 GMT -5
I don't really care to address the rest of your points because I find them silly, to be perfectly honest. That one just stuck out because not only is it silly, but outright wrong. That’s cool. If that’s all you got then that’s all you got. I can’t find anyone that can justify a lot of that stuff either.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 14:47:55 GMT -5
that said CAPTAIN PHASMA GOT SCREWED sod her "not being in the last one ..... take off her helmet, like the DIDN'T tell finn to do, and reveal a nice eye patch ..... and let her KICK ASSINGLY LOOSE! even to the point of a standalone movie To be fair, there was only a limited amount of screentime. They couldn't develop an interesting character like the female stormtrooper commander too much because they had to deal with important characters like a stuttering criminal who shockingly betrays our brave heroes about a day after first meeting them, thus making them look utterly stupid for trusting such obvious duplicity.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Apr 14, 2019 14:56:59 GMT -5
and you know what I LOVED THE LAST JEDI from Luke throwing his lightsabre over his shoulder the bombing run on the dreadnaught the submission to Canto Bight INCLUDING the very fun grand national escape THE ABSOLUTELY STUNNING AND JAWDROPPING LAST DITCH SUICIDAL EFFORT BY HOLDO Yoda being solid! midichlorians eh, more like nanobots ..... and the FACT that you don't need places to practice jedi-ism but the KNOWLEDGE! even Finn and Rose's little relationship was cute, and she "rescuing" him in that ground defense on Crait, even the overlapping of missions to save the desperate rebels escaping ..... and where are you gonna get blue milk at that time of the day? Lukes face when he gulps it down was hilarious, and it doesn't need to be super-poe faced and super super serious you know even ade edmondson having a right old larf when hux DOESN'T GET IT it's STAR WARS and that's all that matters to me
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 15:03:43 GMT -5
I don’t see it as “Not my Star Wars.” I’ve already explained that my opinion as well as many other fans that didn’t care for the movie see it as disrespecting the established universe that came before it. That was already set. It has nothing to do with me or what I’d want. Stop taking care of that and fans will stop caring too. It’s not hard to understand. That’s why so many have been turned off to Last Jedi. There have been plenty of horror movie sequels that do the same and bomb. They don’t have the luxury of having a brand name like Star Wars attached to it. I reread your earlier post half a dozen times and I just don't see anything that "disrespects the established universe." Telephone slang in Star Wars? Any civilisation that has instantaneous direct audio communication is going to have the concept of being put on hold. In a franchise set in a galaxy far, far away where the literal Hell is name dropped, hot chocolate, coffeee and doughnuts are a thing, and you have Lukes, Leias, Wills, Dexters, Orsons, Bens, Owens and all kinds of other commonplace Earth names wandering around, a telephone joke seems a very arbitrary place for people to draw the line.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 15:07:02 GMT -5
and you know what I LOVED THE LAST JEDI from Luke throwing his lightsabre over his shoulder the bombing run on the dreadnaught the submission to Canto Bight INCLUDING the very fun grand national escape THE ABSOLUTELY STUNNING AND JAWDROPPING LAST DITCH SUICIDAL EFFORT BY HOLDO Yoda being solid! midichlorians eh, more like nanobots ..... and the FACT that you don't need places to practice jedi-ism but the KNOWLEDGE! even Finn and Rose's little relationship was cute, and she "rescuing" him in that ground defense on Crait, even the overlapping of missions to save the desperate rebels escaping ..... and where are you gonna get blue milk at that time of the day? Lukes face when he gulps it down was hilarious, and it doesn't need to be super-poe faced and super super serious you know even ade edmondson having a right old larf when hux DOESN'T GET IT it's STAR WARS and that's all that matters to me And and and......the PORGS too!!!!! 😍😜🤡🤗😒
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 15:22:49 GMT -5
My Star Wars - Rebel leaders calmly and rationally explaining the plans to rebels who then bravely execute said plan even at the cost of their lives. Not My Star Wars - Inexplicably bitchy admiral refusing to tell her shitty plan to a hot headed man...something something flyboy etc.... Counterpoint: Hotheaded man had prior plan calmly and rationally explained to him, then went against said orders and got the whole bombing fleet killed. Can't understand why they refused to let him in on the next plan! Rescuing space horses. Milking a land whale. Casino thief, and evil businessmen selling weapons to both sides in a galaxy perpetually at war. Yeah, most of that is relatively pointless fluff, I'll grant you.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 14, 2019 15:40:19 GMT -5
For me personally, no one has to have a justification for why they did or didn't like a movie. It's all completely subjective, so anyone's viewpoint is necessarily rooted totally in opinion. Ya don't have to defend that. There's no possible way ya can defend that, cuz it's all arbitrary and based on how you felt about something.
That movie is almost 2 years old now. If you liked it, cool maybe you'll also like the next one. If ya didn't, cool, maybe instead you'll like the next one.
Beyond that, I don't get all the hubbub.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 15:51:35 GMT -5
My Star Wars - Rebel leaders calmly and rationally explaining the plans to rebels who then bravely execute said plan even at the cost of their lives. Not My Star Wars - Inexplicably bitchy admiral refusing to tell her shitty plan to a hot headed man...something something flyboy etc.... Counterpoint: Hotheaded man had prior plan calmly and rationally explained to him, then went against said orders and got the whole bombing fleet killed. Can't understand why they refused to let him in on the next plan! Rescuing space horses. Milking a land whale. Casino thief, and evil businessmen selling weapons to both sides in a galaxy perpetually at war. Yeah, most of that is relatively pointless fluff, I'll grant you. A better question is why Rian Johnson decided to change a character who was trusted enough to retrieve a map fragment which could locate Luke Skywalker into a strawman intended solely to make a shittier character look better by comparison (and still failing).
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