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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 5, 2018 20:26:40 GMT -5
Cena ended Triple H's reign. People forget how bad the show was before Cena. His push ended the reign of terror. He was the only one they trusted to dethrone the King of Kings. Dave took the belt off Trips. Then he and big gold were shipped off to the B show, because Cena was who they wanted main eventing the A show.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Aug 5, 2018 20:37:52 GMT -5
I guess in that only 50% of the fans hated him while about 80% hare Reigns. I do think that Reigns is more talented in ring then Cena was in the peak years of his super push (2005-2010). I just don't get why it's so hard for them to have a top face that everyone likes. Because not everyone likes the same stuff. Cena was far and away the best option at the time in terms of popularity, ring work, mic work, etc. Bryan is maybe the closest they've come since they but had he had a long reign I guarantee within six months people would have been saying "OMG SO BORING". See AJ Styles. This isn't a knock on the fanbase. I get it because I've been that guy plenty of times. But sometimes a long term champ with a few interruptions to make them looks strong while selling assloads of merch is the right call. Especially when that same dude comes back to selflessly put over a lot of the next generation.
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Post by asellus on Aug 5, 2018 20:43:39 GMT -5
Cena got over on his own with a gimmick he'd helped graft and even when he became polarizing as SuperCena, he still got tons of cheers from fans along with the boo's. Hell, Cena played off the boo's when they happened because that's what you do as a perfomer, work with what you're given.
Reigns doesn't do that in any way except for that one promo after the Undertaker match. Compared to Cena, reigns has floundered after being part of an over tag team who's breakup it feels like he hasn't gotten over considering he's kept everything from The Shield compared to Ambrose and Rollins who developed past that and still feels like he isn't in the spot he should be, years after they started this push.
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Post by häťhtĂĽ.gdÄlÄĂż on Aug 5, 2018 20:44:03 GMT -5
I've always been very vocally anti-Cena... that said, John Cena's big push never led me to realize watching this sh** full time or ever attending live events in my area just isn't worth it. Only Reigns has had that effect on me.
So, yeah. Cena wins.
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Post by captainhindsite on Aug 5, 2018 21:08:36 GMT -5
I grew up on Hogan Savage Brett Hart and Shawn. Left for a bit came back for N.W.O Dx Austin and the like. Left again right before cena. Always watched rumble and mania but didn't watch like I used too. Started watching regularly again when it was punk and Bryan and such. For me and my friends the Cena hate was more because it was basically letting us know as fans that the attitude era was dead. The one big champ that all the kids loved was back and the show as a whole was now going pg. We never really hated cena the performer just hated that we were getting older and our rasslin was changing. After going back and watching more from cenas time I can say that he was great at what he does. Had I been a kid I would have loved him. This whole reigns thing though has just been awful. He just isn't that good of a performer to always be the main attraction . there is so many people that could fill that spot and do so much better .He has no real rival. No real story behind him. No match or promo that I can look at later and say you know what I might not like it but I get why people do. I don't dislike him cause its cool I dislike him cause he is boring. His matches are boring his promos are boring just nothing about reigns is entertaining and that's the worst thing you can have going as a wrestler. I hated enzo but I got why people liked him. He was entertaining. Maybe I'm not saying this the right way but as much as I didn't like cena it really felt more tounge in cheek. More aw man there goes my era and here comes the new. With reigns its pure get off my t.v.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 5, 2018 21:49:32 GMT -5
I don't want to write a huge post, so bullet points it is.
Cena:
⢠Had the support of the fans at the beginning of his big push ⢠Grew and developed as a performer during his push ⢠Created a catalogue of excellent matches with a huge variety of opponents ⢠Had the talent to justify the push in the first place ⢠Didn't act like a douche/crybaby when fans rejected him
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 6, 2018 0:24:48 GMT -5
Iâm way more pro-Roman than most wrestling fans, but Cena is and was way more charismatic, and Iâd argue a bit more versatile in the ring than he was given credit for. He wasnât any more âfive moves of doomâ any more or less than Bret Hart was.
But keep in mind, I donât mind overpowered top faces on principle. If handled well, theyâre a license to print money. No one wants to get behind an alleged âface of the company/face of Rawâ who jobs clean to the top heel and constantly comes up short the way Roman has.
I can see how people would get tired of Cena always retaining, but he knew how to play off crowds better when he was wrestling someone else popular, and WWE was actually willing to commit to presenting him as a strong, effective champion.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Aug 6, 2018 0:47:41 GMT -5
I can't say that I ever liked either push. Were it not for the Cena push, however, there would be no Reigns push. Even though I find the idea of the Reigns push to be disagreeable, despite not having watched WWE in almost 3 years, I find it nowhere near as bad as the Cena push, which was the first slice of a thousand cuts of the death of my professional wrestling fandom.
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Post by brown bricks on Aug 6, 2018 1:11:26 GMT -5
As much shit as people want to throw at Cena, he's not nearly as bad in hindsight. Cena was/is just more charismatic and talented than Roman. The only decent thing Roman Reigns has done is open my eyes to the fact that John Cena isn't nearly as awful as I once thought he was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 3:24:45 GMT -5
The difference for me is investment. 90% of the time, I was invested in what Cena was doing. I may or may not have been a fan at the moment, but when it came to the matches, I was in. I can go back and point to all the matches of Cena's that I was excited for or the promo moments that hooked me. Roman does nothing for me. I don't look forward to his matches, they're a chore to get through. He isn't charismatic enough to sell water to an ocean, so the builds are boring as well. There is no hook to Roman outside of "how much will the fans audibly shit on his match?" And even that element is played out.
I watched all of Cena's run from Thuganomics heel to Big Match John. I got frustrated, but I didn't stop watching. During this Roman run, I've quit watching for months at a time over the years, including currently since the week after Mania. It's not interesting, I'm not invested, I just don't care. That's why Cena's run was better. At least I still gave a shit.
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Post by honsou on Aug 6, 2018 5:27:02 GMT -5
During Super Cena I watched to hope he would lose. The Reigns push made me stop watching.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Aug 6, 2018 6:45:41 GMT -5
During Super Cena I watched to hope he would lose. The Reigns push made me stop watching. You know this is pretty spot on. At Mania, I expected Roman to win. He lost and I had no reaction other than ".....oh" Same with all his other loses. At least when Cena lost (other than Orton loses) you'd get something more complete apathy.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 6, 2018 9:28:16 GMT -5
Dave took the belt off Trips. Then he and big gold were shipped off to the B show, because Cena was who they wanted main eventing the A show. Revisionist theory. Big Dave was more popular and "shipped" to the "B" show to increase its audience and strengthen it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 6, 2018 12:06:48 GMT -5
Dave took the belt off Trips. Then he and big gold were shipped off to the B show, because Cena was who they wanted main eventing the A show. Revisionist theory. Big Dave was more popular and "shipped" to the "B" show to increase its audience and strengthen it. Yeah, Big Dave was sent to Smackdown to help Smackdown not because he was a failure.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 6, 2018 12:43:03 GMT -5
Cena at his most unbearable was at least still interesting. At least I would still care about angles he was involved in. Roman doesn't even have that.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Aug 6, 2018 12:45:48 GMT -5
Super Cena was annoying because of "LOL Cena wins". Roman doesn't even win at title matches most of the time.
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gbo86
Mephisto
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Post by gbo86 on Aug 6, 2018 14:10:31 GMT -5
Cena was far and away better but his character development was still really stupid. His superpush basically sapped my passion for wrestling and led me to pay very scant attention between 08 and 14. It was just so...dull (with some notable exceptions).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 2:52:16 GMT -5
Cena is one of the best ever so it's an unfair comparison to an extent. But it felt like he went all in one his gimmick, the superman push fitted him so well.
Roman feels like he'd rather be playing someone else.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Aug 7, 2018 3:25:13 GMT -5
People really hated Cena at times here too. Don't forget the hate he got for no selling concrete ddts or group beatdowns. One of the different things is because of his attitude "rise above hate" "people boo me that's fine but i got passion of my fans" and of course his 'heel' turn after WM finally made people groan inwardly and accept it.
I think the WWE think the same will happen with Roman, that if they just push him hard enough and long enough, then people will finally just say "ok ok, we accept him even if he is corny and says suffering suckotash like cena said baloney fudge and mustard". Vince wants to prove once and for all that he controls the fans, he is the master conductor. He doesn't mind failures like Jinder or fan pushed like Bryan, but at the core, the centre, he sees himself as the WWE god.
He's stubborn and....i mean realistically he might be right in a way, he's got the ability to give fans everything else they want except this, and in his mind he'll outlast them. Even if it takes another 10 years, by which time a new generation have grown up with Roman and accept him just out of nostalgia or familiarity.
He might even think he's doing the right thing, making a megastar who will last for ages long like the rock. Because he has no natural megastars at the moment beyond brock and Cena, and he feels his company needs one. One who has felt humiliation, but who never gave up, one who was just so 'cool and chill' like 1995 Diesel. Can you imagine that Diesel headlining 4 wrestlemanias in a row until WMXV in 1999, still being pushed over Rock and Austin and HHH?
It's clear that they expected Roman to be sympathised with when he points out how he should be champion or deserves a title shot. You could even argue he's trying to recreate a reign of terror for Brock where you will cheer whoever finally takes the title from him, whoever disposes of the bad guy, not realising that unlike HHH, you could book Brock much more interestingly, and (some) fans would STILL want him to remain champion.
I think if Vince is stubborn enough, he'll get what he wants. Kids liking Roman and accepting a 50/50 boo/cheer scenario. But it will harm his company to do so. Regardless of how stable it's doing financially, creatively it can top out. Even the Simpsons is still profitable and marketable, even when they produce horrible episodes (lady gaga).
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 7, 2018 11:34:56 GMT -5
Revisionist theory. Big Dave was more popular and "shipped" to the "B" show to increase its audience and strengthen it. Yeah, Big Dave was sent to Smackdown to help Smackdown not because he was a failure. Oh I apologize if that was the impression I gave. No Big Dave wasn't a failure. I am saying they wanted the bling bling spinner belt on the A show and obviously Cena with it. I am saying they didn't feel the need to have Trips rescue ratings, they let Cena be generally the focus.
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