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Post by The Rick Jericho on Aug 6, 2018 11:08:50 GMT -5
So people are still talking about this DeRozan-Leonard trade.
For people who don't follow the NBA, everyone thinks the Raptors snaked their franchise player DeRozan. From scrubs to stars and everything in between, people say the franchise did their guy raw. But since when exactly was professional sports based on loyalty? People leave all the time. Both either by management or team decisions. So it is what it is right?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 6, 2018 20:55:32 GMT -5
There's loyalty in some cases but don't ever get it confused it's a business first
Sometimes you end up with a perfect marriage like you had with Tim Duncan and the Spurs and sometimes you do what's best for you (see LeBron James)
The NFL is always a crap shoot of who can get the leverage first. Owners will cut you if you aren't useful on the drop of the time meanwhile players will hold out every year into they get what they want (Darelle Revis)
NBA is a player driven league and as already seen loyalty there is very suspect. However, I don't always fault the players because if you are a star you no doubt spend up to your first 7 years with the team you started with and if you don't have success you are ready to go
MLB is in the middle of NBA and the NFL. Players would rather stay on a losing team which they had previous success (Joey Votto, Adam Jones) but baseball is a sport where you don't really hear players too much complaining about being on a team and even then they don't have to oblige to trade you. There's always a lot of player movement in baseball for the mid level guys but in most cases you are looking to trade your stars only in cases to replenish your team for the future.
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 6, 2018 22:35:17 GMT -5
I don't get why DeRozan is bitter. The dude has his chances with the Raptors and blew it every year, so maybe a change of scenery was needed. Now he gets to play for a HOF caliber coach in Popovich on what could be a very good Spurs team. The Spurs really could be about the 3rd best team in the West next year, given that they basically subtracted little of value from a 47 win team (Leonard was hurt all last year). Adding DeRozan to that team along with Poeltl could get that team to the same 59 wins Toronto had last year.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 6, 2018 23:14:37 GMT -5
I don't get why DeRozan is bitter. The dude has his chances with the Raptors and blew it every year, so maybe a change of scenery was needed. Now he gets to play for a HOF caliber coach in Popovich on what could be a very good Spurs team. The Spurs really could be about the 3rd best team in the West next year, given that they basically subtracted little of value from a 47 win team (Leonard was hurt all last year). Adding DeRozan to that team along with Poeltl could get that team to the same 59 wins Toronto had last year. Because he was lied to which is why he is so pissed. He was in Vegas and when talking plans of the team the GM told him he had no intentions to move him only to move him the next week
Now, he will eventually get over this and realize going to SA might be the best thing to ever happen in his career
However, in saying that Toronto is a better team with how they got now in Leonard and Green so while I can't fault the trade per se, the GM should have been upfront with DeRozan which has led to these bad feeling now
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 6, 2018 23:27:37 GMT -5
There's only loyalty after the guy retires. Then they treat them like they're a conquering hero.
Otherwise, nothing is sacred anymore.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 6, 2018 23:43:11 GMT -5
The saddest part with DeMar is that he actually wanted to be in Toronto. Considering that this is a team in what could be considered the worse market for players (and this is coming from a guy who loved going to Toronto the few times I've been, players are not going to be happy about the cold, living in what is still a foreign country, and TO is always going to belong to the Leafs, no matter how bad they are), finding a guy who actually wants to be there is a rarity. To use him as trade bait was shitty, even if it's the business. You can make the case that getting traded to SA is a blessing, but I feel like their best years are behind them, the core that made them a force in the West is gone, and Pops is looking toward the exit by as early as 2020 after the Olympics. And to be traded from a still wide open East to what is essentially a wasteland ruled by California has got to be disheartening to him.
And the shittiest part in all of this is you know Kawhai Leonard is peaceing out for LA after 1 season, and there's a good chance he'll pick up another "injury" that will put him out for that entire year. So, they sold out their heart and soul so they could get Danny Green.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 6, 2018 23:51:00 GMT -5
The saddest part with DeMar is that he actually wanted to be in Toronto. Considering that this is a team in what could be considered the worse market for players (and this is coming from a guy who loved going to Toronto the few times I've been, players are not going to be happy about the cold, living in what is still a foreign country, and TO is always going to belong to the Leafs, no matter how bad they are), finding a guy who actually wants to be there is a rarity. To use him as trade bait was shitty, even if it's the business. You can make the case that getting traded to SA is a blessing, but I feel like their best years are behind them, the core that made them a force in the West is gone, and Pops is looking toward the exit by as early as 2020 after the Olympics. And to be traded from a still wide open East to what is essentially a wasteland ruled by California has got to be disheartening to him. And the shittiest part in all of this is you know Kawhai Leonard is peaceing out for LA after 1 season, and there's a good chance he'll pick up another "injury" that will put him out for that entire year. So, they sold out their heart and soul so they could get Danny Green. Well don't quote me on this later but this could be a situation where Kawhi does embrace Toronto like PG did OKC.
However, in saying that yes I think the whole thing with DeRozan should have been handled better. If you were going to shop him and got a trade you couldn't refuse in Kawhi then you be upfront with Demar he at least deserves that respect. I was on board with them trading both him and Lowry instead of firing the coach but they went about this backwards
Facts are facts in regards to Demar not showing up in the playoffs. But as I said he is basically on your short list as best player in the franchise ever next to Bosh and Carter. You lied to his face which is the reason why this is such a big problem because you showed him no respect and the fact that you have to make Toronto an international players marker to attract players shows that you have no pull to attract a start player. With the move you just pulled outside of a trade you still won't attract star players there with that type of treatment
The trade was the right thing to do imo but how it was handled is horribly wrong
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 7, 2018 8:00:41 GMT -5
Nah, I think Kawhi is basically a 1 year rent a player. If that indeed does happen it's hard to see Toronto's logic in this, since they would have given up the guy that wanted to be there (DeRozan) for a guy that didn't want to stay.
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Post by Hurbster on Aug 9, 2018 14:03:21 GMT -5
No Loyalty ?
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Aug 9, 2018 14:11:56 GMT -5
No Loyalty ? I was actually discussing Le Tiss the other day. I’ve no doubt that he was a supremely talented player on his day but there could be an argument that he stayed at a club like Southampton rather than move to a bigger club because he knew he would be a “big fish in a small pond”. Although I’m not doubting his loyalty, which is the topic at hand. My example of loyalty would be Buffon, Nedved, Del Piero and the other players who stayed with Juventus when through no fault of the players the club was relegated as part of the match-rigging scandal.
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Post by Hurbster on Aug 9, 2018 14:45:58 GMT -5
He turned down Spurs in 1990 as he felt he owed Saints and didn't want to move to London, he also admitted that turning down Chelsea in 1995 was a mistake as shortly after Hoddle became England manager.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Aug 10, 2018 19:25:22 GMT -5
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Aug 11, 2018 14:13:18 GMT -5
I don't get why DeRozan is bitter. The dude has his chances with the Raptors and blew it every year, so maybe a change of scenery was needed. Now he gets to play for a HOF caliber coach in Popovich on what could be a very good Spurs team. The Spurs really could be about the 3rd best team in the West next year, given that they basically subtracted little of value from a 47 win team (Leonard was hurt all last year). Adding DeRozan to that team along with Poeltl could get that team to the same 59 wins Toronto had last year. Because he was lied to which is why he is so pissed. He was in Vegas and when talking plans of the team the GM told him he had no intentions to move him only to move him the next week Now, he will eventually get over this and realize going to SA might be the best thing to ever happen in his career
However, in saying that Toronto is a better team with how they got now in Leonard and Green so while I can't fault the trade per se, the GM should have been upfront with DeRozan which has led to these bad feeling now
But it could also backfire too. The fact that he was lied to and he's pissed could ultimately affect his mindset and game play. It's quite possible he won't be any good when he gets to San Antonio. It's happened before.
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deezy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,676
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Post by deezy on Aug 13, 2018 14:08:54 GMT -5
Darrell Green was with the Redskins for 20 years. That's very rare to be with the same team that long.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Aug 14, 2018 11:34:15 GMT -5
Jason Witten.
That guy was one of the best TEs in the NFL the past 15 years. He probably could've went to a better team, got a ring, etc., but he stayed with Dallas his entire career.
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4TheGlory
Vegeta
The Fun One At Parties
Posts: 9,747
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Post by 4TheGlory on Aug 16, 2018 5:23:05 GMT -5
I can see Big Ben going his full career as a Pittsburgh Steeler. He is constantly restructuring his contract to free up space for the Steelers to better compete.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,077
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Aug 16, 2018 7:18:16 GMT -5
Him and Wainwright were my first thoughts about this. Sometimes in baseball you get guys who are willing to take discounts for their team to stay in that city. Votto is another great example, guy has to know Cincinnati won't be winning anything while he is there and still signed a long term contract.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Aug 16, 2018 20:07:13 GMT -5
Him and Wainwright were my first thoughts about this. Sometimes in baseball you get guys who are willing to take discounts for their team to stay in that city. Votto is another great example, guy has to know Cincinnati won't be winning anything while he is there and still signed a long term contract. So true. The thing about Yadi was he was going in his last year, the team had a top catching prospect and still do. Yadi who mid 30s could be easily been let to walk, instead the team gave him what he wanted and deserves as he still playing out of his mind. Wainright will be interesting this off season, free agent. Still showing desire to pitch even though his body telling him otherwise as we seen the last three years. Team is load with young pitching as we are seeing right now and the success, and kept in mind this is all happening without Reyes. So will Wainright get another contract from the Cardinals? Will he retire? or will he go else where to pitch? Yadi was an easier move because he was still playing at a high level and still is.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,077
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Aug 16, 2018 20:29:34 GMT -5
Him and Wainwright were my first thoughts about this. Sometimes in baseball you get guys who are willing to take discounts for their team to stay in that city. Votto is another great example, guy has to know Cincinnati won't be winning anything while he is there and still signed a long term contract. So true. The thing about Yadi was he was going in his last year, the team had a top catching prospect and still do. Yadi who mid 30s could be easily been let to walk, instead the team gave him what he wanted and deserves as he still playing out of his mind. Wainright will be interesting this off season, free agent. Still showing desire to pitch even though his body telling him otherwise as we seen the last three years. Team is load with young pitching as we are seeing right now and the success, and kept in mind this is all happening without Reyes. So will Wainright get another contract from the Cardinals? Will he retire? or will he go else where to pitch? Yadi was an easier move because he was still playing at a high level and still is. I'm pretty sure they'll let Wainwright walk and I'm sure he'll understand. He's pragmatic. He'll probably go somewhere cheap on a one year deal. Honestly though, he should hang it up. Between all the injuries piling up and his stuff diminishing I think father time is trying to tell him something.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Aug 16, 2018 21:14:12 GMT -5
Him and Wainwright were my first thoughts about this. Sometimes in baseball you get guys who are willing to take discounts for their team to stay in that city. Votto is another great example, guy has to know Cincinnati won't be winning anything while he is there and still signed a long term contract. Votto hates Canada apparently so he will never come home, so I think that's why he wants to stay in Cincy. "I don’t care almost at all about Canadian baseball," said Votto "As far as Toronto, and Canadian baseball, and the country of Canada, and (James Paxton) being Canadian, I don’t care at all," said Votto. "(Paxton), or the Jays, or Canada, in general, may disagree with that, but I really couldn’t give a rat’s ass about that."
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