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Post by héad.casé on Aug 27, 2018 15:36:21 GMT -5
It's something they also famously tried and failed with The Shield Reigns ---> singles Roman Reigns. Somehow once WWE embraces you as a face, it's no longer 'cool' to cheer for the babyface over all the other Superstars. Bex is getting cheers today, but if she suddenly got the double-turn and got Charlotte's push in a few weeks people might complain about SuperBex being shoved down our throats. It just depends on the Superstar it seems, The Rock it work, the Rock's nephew Reigns it's not so easy. I think Becky Lynch has been setup for success once she gets another face push with the title, as long as she gets good heel rivals (make Charlotte cheat to retain her strap against Becky and you have a classic feud right there). A few weeks after The Shield split, Roman Reigns spiked the coffee of Stephanie McMahon, causing her to vomit all over Vickie Guerrero. And his punishment was being put into a match for the vacant WWE Title.
I vividly remember the thread that was made on here about that when that RAW was over, and people said "Well, Roman didn't need to do this because he's not Cena, so hopefully it was a one off". I think we kinda knew then that WWE would start turning Roman's character that way.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 27, 2018 17:29:30 GMT -5
It's almost a case of 'WWE wins either way' either the forced heel turn continues to fire up audience and excite crowds every match Becky is in, OR they play it up like another self-fulfilling prophecy where somebody like The Rock when he was a heel (but popular) called himself 'The People's Champ' and people had an excuse to give him a face pop for that (or when Elias asks what W-W-E-stands-for) when The Rock finally went 'face' he didn't have to change what got him over, same with Stone Cold Steve Austin who basically turned face because he passed out refusing to tap out. It's something they also famously tried and failed with The Shield Reigns ---> singles Roman Reigns. Somehow once WWE embraces you as a face, it's no longer 'cool' to cheer for the babyface over all the other Superstars. Bex is getting cheers today, but if she suddenly got the double-turn and got Charlotte's push in a few weeks people might complain about SuperBex being shoved down our throats. It just depends on the Superstar it seems, The Rock it work, the Rock's nephew Reigns it's not so easy. I think Becky Lynch has been setup for success once she gets another face push with the title, as long as she gets good heel rivals (make Charlotte cheat to retain her strap against Becky and you have a classic feud right there). One or two big overpushes turning the tide of the crowd doesn't mean that someone will get booed for getting pushed as a face. New Day is basically the most decorated tag team in WWE right now, they get pops. Seth and Dean are huge crowd favorites and both have been Very Important pretty much any second they've spent kicking around since the Shield split. Some people are tired of AJ's run but he still has the crowd super behind him and short of Brock or Roman is the most protected guy on the roster. The idea the audience just suddenly hates any face once they get a push is hilariously not accurate.
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Aug 27, 2018 18:03:52 GMT -5
The thing about this that I find so frustrating is that WWE actually did a decent job of foreshadowing Becky turning heel. Becky was clearly unhappy Charlotte was added to the match. Even the week before Summerslam, Becky refused to tag Charlotte in to their tag match. Becky was acting more heelish. From that stand point, her snapping makes sense as a heel turn. However, that doesn't gel with what WWE was doing to build to the match before that. Becky going though most of the roster to finally get a shot, she cuts a great promo about the hard road she's had, it's flipping gears too fast. Really, what they should have done was do Becky vs Carmella at Summerslam, Becky wins and gets her moment, then after Becky does the rematch, Charlotte issues the challenge, respectfully saying how honored she'd be to face her best friend for the title and how they'd tear the house down and all that. Then during the title match, Becky cheats to win and then says that Charlotte couldn't let Becky just enjoy being champion again and you turn her heel that way. With this, Becky IS the bad guy because she's twisting Charlotte's actions into something nefarious when they weren't. To actually make Becky an effective heel and make Charlotte look sympathetic, or at least have a better shot at it.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Aug 27, 2018 18:09:53 GMT -5
It's something they also famously tried and failed with The Shield Reigns ---> singles Roman Reigns. Somehow once WWE embraces you as a face, it's no longer 'cool' to cheer for the babyface over all the other Superstars. Bex is getting cheers today, but if she suddenly got the double-turn and got Charlotte's push in a few weeks people might complain about SuperBex being shoved down our throats. It just depends on the Superstar it seems, The Rock it work, the Rock's nephew Reigns it's not so easy. I think Becky Lynch has been setup for success once she gets another face push with the title, as long as she gets good heel rivals (make Charlotte cheat to retain her strap against Becky and you have a classic feud right there). A few weeks after The Shield split, Roman Reigns spiked the coffee of Stephanie McMahon, causing her to vomit all over Vickie Guerrero. And his punishment was being put into a match for the vacant WWE Title. WWE Fans didn't stop cheering for Roman because he was turned face. They stopped cheering him because WWE turned him from a Silent Badass Killer into quite simply an ass.
Let us also not forget those awful 'live via satellite' promos they had Reigns cut while he was briefly injured. Screamed of a needy "hey, we gotta remind you this guy is a star."
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 27, 2018 18:12:28 GMT -5
It's almost a case of 'WWE wins either way' either the forced heel turn continues to fire up audience and excite crowds every match Becky is in, OR they play it up like another self-fulfilling prophecy where somebody like The Rock when he was a heel (but popular) called himself 'The People's Champ' and people had an excuse to give him a face pop for that (or when Elias asks what W-W-E-stands-for) when The Rock finally went 'face' he didn't have to change what got him over, same with Stone Cold Steve Austin who basically turned face because he passed out refusing to tap out. It's something they also famously tried and failed with The Shield Reigns ---> singles Roman Reigns. Somehow once WWE embraces you as a face, it's no longer 'cool' to cheer for the babyface over all the other Superstars. Bex is getting cheers today, but if she suddenly got the double-turn and got Charlotte's push in a few weeks people might complain about SuperBex being shoved down our throats. It just depends on the Superstar it seems, The Rock it work, the Rock's nephew Reigns it's not so easy. I think Becky Lynch has been setup for success once she gets another face push with the title, as long as she gets good heel rivals (make Charlotte cheat to retain her strap against Becky and you have a classic feud right there). One or two big overpushes turning the tide of the crowd doesn't mean that someone will get booed for getting pushed as a face. New Day is basically the most decorated tag team in WWE right now, they get pops. Seth and Dean are huge crowd favorites and both have been Very Important pretty much any second they've spent kicking around since the Shield split. Some people are tired of AJ's run but he still has the crowd super behind him and short of Brock or Roman is the most protected guy on the roster. The idea the audience just suddenly hates any face once they get a put is hilariously not accurate. Not to mention BRAUUUUN! Is still pretty damned over as an unstoppable face monster
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 27, 2018 18:43:57 GMT -5
The thing about this that I find so frustrating is that WWE actually did a decent job of foreshadowing Becky turning heel. Becky was clearly unhappy Charlotte was added to the match. Even the week before Summerslam, Becky refused to tag Charlotte in to their tag match. Becky was acting more heelish. From that stand point, her snapping makes sense as a heel turn. However, that doesn't gel with what WWE was doing to build to the match before that. Becky going though most of the roster to finally get a shot, she cuts a great promo about the hard road she's had, it's flipping gears too fast. Really, what they should have done was do Becky vs Carmella at Summerslam, Becky wins and gets her moment, then after Becky does the rematch, Charlotte issues the challenge, respectfully saying how honored she'd be to face her best friend for the title and how they'd tear the house down and all that. Then during the title match, Becky cheats to win and then says that Charlotte couldn't let Becky just enjoy being champion again and you turn her heel that way. With this, Becky IS the bad guy because she's twisting Charlotte's actions into something nefarious when they weren't. To actually make Becky an effective heel and make Charlotte look sympathetic, or at least have a better shot at it. I also wonder how much better received it would be if they had gone through it that way and we got to see Becky have her big heroic triumph moment, the catharsis that people weren't given that's now only making this even less wanted or liked.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Aug 28, 2018 1:09:00 GMT -5
It's almost a case of 'WWE wins either way' either the forced heel turn continues to fire up audience and excite crowds every match Becky is in, OR they play it up like another self-fulfilling prophecy where somebody like The Rock when he was a heel (but popular) called himself 'The People's Champ' and people had an excuse to give him a face pop for that (or when Elias asks what W-W-E-stands-for) when The Rock finally went 'face' he didn't have to change what got him over, same with Stone Cold Steve Austin who basically turned face because he passed out refusing to tap out. It's something they also famously tried and failed with The Shield Reigns ---> singles Roman Reigns. Somehow once WWE embraces you as a face, it's no longer 'cool' to cheer for the babyface over all the other Superstars. Bex is getting cheers today, but if she suddenly got the double-turn and got Charlotte's push in a few weeks people might complain about SuperBex being shoved down our throats. It just depends on the Superstar it seems, The Rock it work, the Rock's nephew Reigns it's not so easy. I think Becky Lynch has been setup for success once she gets another face push with the title, as long as she gets good heel rivals (make Charlotte cheat to retain her strap against Becky and you have a classic feud right there). One or two big overpushes turning the tide of the crowd doesn't mean that someone will get booed for getting pushed as a face. New Day is basically the most decorated tag team in WWE right now, they get pops. Seth and Dean are huge crowd favorites and both have been Very Important pretty much any second they've spent kicking around since the Shield split. Some people are tired of AJ's run but he still has the crowd super behind him and short of Brock or Roman is the most protected guy on the roster. The idea the audience just suddenly hates any face once they get a push is hilariously not accurate. Again I think it really depends on the Superstar. Braun has been handled relatively well particularly with the Mixed Match Challenge series (which he lost) in addition to all other non-World Title accolades (most eliminations in a Rumble, Greatest Royal Rumble winner, MITB winner, can flip over mach trucks, etc.) unlike Roman people bought him winning against all odds. When they pushed ADR as a face, or Miz as a face, or Jason Jordan-- you start to see that it's the guy's charisma or inherent tendencies to not be a true 'face' that hinders the WWE plan. Again I'm not saying every face that WWE pushes will automatically be booed by smark crowds, but for instance I WWE wanted to push Samoa Joe as a babyface I don't think any crowd would buy it-- but damned if WWE won't try to do it if it's 'best for business'
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 28, 2018 1:25:50 GMT -5
One or two big overpushes turning the tide of the crowd doesn't mean that someone will get booed for getting pushed as a face. New Day is basically the most decorated tag team in WWE right now, they get pops. Seth and Dean are huge crowd favorites and both have been Very Important pretty much any second they've spent kicking around since the Shield split. Some people are tired of AJ's run but he still has the crowd super behind him and short of Brock or Roman is the most protected guy on the roster. The idea the audience just suddenly hates any face once they get a push is hilariously not accurate. Again I think it really depends on the Superstar. Braun has been handled relatively well particularly with the Mixed Match Challenge series (which he lost) in addition to all other non-World Title accolades (most eliminations in a Rumble, Greatest Royal Rumble winner, MITB winner, can flip over mach trucks, etc.) unlike Roman people bought him winning against all odds. When they pushed ADR as a face, or Miz as a face, or Jason Jordan-- you start to see that it's the guy's charisma or inherent tendencies to not be a true 'face' that hinders the WWE plan. Again I'm not saying every face that WWE pushes will automatically be booed by smark crowds, but for instance I WWE wanted to push Samoa Joe as a babyface I don't think any crowd would buy it-- but damned if WWE won't try to do it if it's 'best for business' But you're taking guys who were, respectively a) heel 2) heel 3) tag team guy turning sudden upper midcard babyface with a weird gimmick nobody was too keen on in front of an audience that already wasn't hot with him 4) best heel going right now, and trying to use them as examples to compare to someone who has been the most over female face on Smackdown since the brand split to say that the crowd would turn on them. The points aren't really coming together very well. Becky winning the belt wouldn't even have been a Braun-level push or anything
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Aug 28, 2018 1:59:48 GMT -5
Hmm I was totally saying Bex would be a great person to turn babyface instead of those other guys, particularly because she's a charismatic babyface-- sorry if that wasn't clear.
And I just watched the end of RAW, Braun turns heel haha
Edit: since I wasn't being coherent it seems, I'll try to encapsulate what I was trying to say earlier I guess. Basically now that Becky is a "heel" (read: Daniel Bryan-like smark face) she's getting more over than the other SDLive babyfaces which is a #rocketstrap sign that WWE will notice. The fact that she's more over arguably now than she ever was as a face will tell WWE to milk the heel run as long as possible to a nice crescendo babyface turn, which could compare to the other aforementioned in this thread Superstars who were heels but turned face. I think Becky would be a no brainer top face after this delayed gratification turn push, but again they turned a no-brainer in Roman Reigns to absolute dreck so I have to factor in the fates to how things will turn out with whatever the WWE has planned for Becky Lynch after they started her off Irish jiggin' on NXT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 8:58:53 GMT -5
Didn't feel like making a new thread for it, so thought I'd post it in here.
She's such a treasure.
Edit: Done before SummerSlam.
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Post by sunnytaker on Aug 28, 2018 11:42:16 GMT -5
I know how to make this heel turn work
becky comes out tonight and announces "I actually hate quinoa" (mic drop)
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 28, 2018 11:43:01 GMT -5
I know how to make this heel turn work becky comes out tonight and announces "I actually hate quinoa" (mic drop) People would just go "you know she is right" and chant "QUINOA SUCKS" Then Road Dogg would go on twitter and argue with fans that Quinoa does not suck.
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Post by freeze Austin on Aug 28, 2018 12:02:46 GMT -5
WWE should just keep pushing Charlotte as the top face until she becomes the top merchandise and ratings mover for the women by default, and then they have their forever argument for why a change can't be made.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 28, 2018 12:20:16 GMT -5
WWE should just keep pushing Charlotte as the top face until she becomes the top merchandise and ratings mover for the women by default, and then they have their forever argument for why a change can't be made. the funny thing is I'm pretty sure the current top Female merch mover is a heel.
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Post by theironyuppie on Aug 28, 2018 12:26:21 GMT -5
I know how to make this heel turn work becky comes out tonight and announces "I actually hate quinoa" (mic drop) People would just go "you know she is right" and chant "QUINOA SUCKS" Then Road Dogg would go on twitter and argue with fans that Quinoa does not suck.
"They climbed the same mountain, Charlotte and Becky both hate quinoa."
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 28, 2018 13:35:37 GMT -5
WWE should just keep pushing Charlotte as the top face until she becomes the top merchandise and ratings mover for the women by default, and then they have their forever argument for why a change can't be made. I think Meltzer was the one that commented "Well Charlotte doesnt even move merchandinse,she is not the top merchandise seller as Roman Reigns is so they dont even have that excuse"(paraphrasing of course)
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Aug 28, 2018 13:36:38 GMT -5
You know what? I kinda don't want to watch Smackdown. Like, Becky as a face wasn't my main draw but the fact they want to force this narrative just turns me off from wanting to watch. I just know my intelligence is going to continue to be insulted.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 28, 2018 13:41:26 GMT -5
You know what? I kinda don't want to watch Smackdown. Like, Becky as a face wasn't my main draw but the fact they want to force this narrative just turns me off from wanting to watch. I just know my intelligence is going to continue to be insulted. That is reallly the worst f***ing part. WWE treats their fan like they are f***ing morons.They think they can lie about what happened straight to our faces ,tells us we did something we did the opposite of and we are supposed to buy it.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Aug 28, 2018 14:14:14 GMT -5
I know how to make this heel turn work becky comes out tonight and announces "I actually hate quinoa" (mic drop) People would just go "you know she is right" and chant "QUINOA SUCKS" Then Road Dogg would go on twitter and argue with fans that Quinoa does not suck. "The important thing is that quinoa gets A REACTION. Cheers or boos, people pay attention to quinoa!"
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 28, 2018 14:24:26 GMT -5
You know what? I kinda don't want to watch Smackdown. Like, Becky as a face wasn't my main draw but the fact they want to force this narrative just turns me off from wanting to watch. I just know my intelligence is going to continue to be insulted. That is reallly the worst f***ing part. WWE treats their fan like they are f***ing morons.They think they can lie about what happened straight to our faces ,tells us we did something we did the opposite of and we are supposed to buy it. The WWE does this constantly. They stumble their way into genuine feelgood, cathartic moments, where a wrestler has the chance to blow the roof off the building... and then they pull the rug out from under everyone. Without fail. They just choose the worst possible climax to a storyline. Whether it's the plucky underdog losing, or a senseless heel turn, or a third party coming in and ruining it all. In Becky's case, they managed all three at once.
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