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Post by wrestlingrecap on Aug 26, 2018 21:42:02 GMT -5
I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on SummerSlam 1993. Anyone that follows the ICOPOD podcast, knows that we are up to this point and will be recording a podcast on the event this Thursday. There's quite a bit going on...
Bret vs. Lawler to determined the real king
Lex Luger trying to be the next Hulk Hogan and win the WWF World Championship from Yokozuna
Shawn Michaels defends the WWF IC Championship against Mr. Perfect
Those are the three major angles. I'm curious to see if anyone was sold on Luger at this point or if it came across as being shoved down your throat.
I look forward to discussion!
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Aug 27, 2018 0:11:47 GMT -5
It's a downright Great-With-a-Capital-G show...until the ending just sours everything.
Luger did come across as being shoved down my throat at the time, and I totally wasn't buying how a Narcissist became a humble All-American overnight. And yet I still felt ripped off at the ending--"You push this guy to this level and then don't even have the guts to pull the trigger??!"
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
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Post by SmashTV on Aug 27, 2018 5:24:21 GMT -5
As a Brit, America loving Luger meant nothing to me (no disrespect to America!), but the gimmick was outdated, corny and yes, rammed down the throat. As a result, after all the hype and seemingly endless campaign, the countout ending made little sense. Luger just looked a bit stupid sitting astride the Steiners' shoulders after a cheap victory, and in doing so killed any momentum he might have had. I know he was still in the title picture up until WMX, but after this it seemed to me that fan allegiances lay strongly with Bret.
The Hart/Lawler feud was well delivered, and Lawler's fake injury was a proper old school heel tactic. Bret's match against Doink was pretty good, but when he got his hands on Lawler the fans wanted to see him get hurt! Incidentally, this was one of my last kayfabe moments - 18 year old me shouted 'Just hit him, Bret!', which with the benefit of hindsight shows what a great heel Lawler was.
I was disappointed with the Michaels/Perfect match; on paper it looked incredible, but for some reason they just didn't gel. A shame, as you could usually count on both men to really deliver.
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Post by chronocross on Aug 27, 2018 8:50:26 GMT -5
I thought it was a good show, great opener with Razor putting DiBiase away and the tag title match was great also.
HBK vs Perfect was so-so, not bad but they didn’t click IMO, the way it ended made it clear they were going to continue this going into the fall, though HBK being suspended would put an end to that.
I liked Bret vs. Doink and Lawler and thought it was a great way to continue the feud with Bret keeping the sharpshooter on Lawler after the bell, however Lawler would be out in a couple of months due to legal issues.
If you’re trying to push Luger as the next Hogan, you should have pulled the trigger on the title switch and maybe have Yoko win it back at Survivor Series or at a MSG show. He looked like an idiot celebrating a count out win like he won the WWF title.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 10:52:20 GMT -5
I'm curious to see if anyone was sold on Luger at this point or if it came across as being shoved down your throat. I was still moreorless a gullible mark at that point, but even I saw that they were trying to make Luger into the new Hogan and it was coming across as very phony. And as with many MANY other people, I've since seen & learned, the post-match celebration was senseless and seemed like a parody.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Aug 27, 2018 10:53:47 GMT -5
Luger should have never been turned face. He should have won the title instead of Yokozuna. A Luger/Hart feud culminating at Mania X would have been great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 13:07:12 GMT -5
I had to watch that sumbitch ride in a bus for 2 friggen months and listen to that damn “Hero” song over and over and then he doesn’t win the title? Now let me 1st clarify I was a huge Enrique Iglesias fan at the time and knew in my soul he’d make a song that would do Heroes justice in about 8 years and it would feature prime JLH in the music video...They should have put the belt on Enrique.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Aug 27, 2018 15:45:08 GMT -5
I have a weird soft spot for this show, since I watched the VHS tape of it as a kid with a startling regularity. The high point is easily Bret vs. Doink and then Bret vs. Lawler. Just an amazing angle and two great matches into the pot.
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Post by horsemen4ever on Aug 27, 2018 16:02:16 GMT -5
I was appaled at the disrespect the Japanese national anthem, like Japan is the Soviet Union during the Cold Wars, they are allies, and friends, our Japanese deseve better. They give us the best video games, electroics, not to mention anime and manga, what is Vince's problem with Japan. Just disgraceful and embarassing.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 27, 2018 17:44:34 GMT -5
Luger looked like a dick celebrating a countout win.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Aug 27, 2018 18:20:54 GMT -5
I was appaled at the disrespect the Japanese national anthem, like Japan is the Soviet Union during the Cold Wars, they are allies, and friends, our Japanese deseve better. They give us the best video games, electroics, not to mention anime and manga, what is Vince's problem with Japan. Just disgraceful and embarassing. This I agree with. A foreign heel is one thing--even a foreign heel from a country that's an ally (which would also include Mr. Borga). But the WWF went way past that and was trying to portray the entire *country* of Japan as a heel. Even in 1993 that wasn't going to fly. My father, a not-PC type who relished the bad-taste side of wrestling, even he winced at this act and said, while sort of laughing in disbelief, "They really shouldn't be doing this." The idea of Japan "buying up" America the same way we've thought of China in the past 10-15 years was way out-of-date. They also aired a purported Japanese newscast somewhere on TV around this time covering the Intrepid angle like Japanese propaganda, with the newscaster calling it a " hippu tossu" and such, which was just as bad.
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Post by horsemen4ever on Aug 27, 2018 20:41:25 GMT -5
I was appaled at the disrespect the Japanese national anthem, like Japan is the Soviet Union during the Cold Wars, they are allies, and friends, our Japanese deseve better. They give us the best video games, electroics, not to mention anime and manga, what is Vince's problem with Japan. Just disgraceful and embarassing. This I agree with. A foreign heel is one thing--even a foreign heel from a country that's an ally (which would also include Mr. Borga). But the WWF went way past that and was trying to portray the entire *country* of Japan as a heel. Even in 1993 that wasn't going to fly. My father, a not-PC type who relished the bad-taste side of wrestling, even he winced at this act and said, while sort of laughing in disbelief, "They really shouldn't be doing this." The idea of Japan "buying up" America the same way we've thought of China in the past 10-15 years was way out-of-date. They also aired a purported Japanese newscast somewhere on TV around this time covering the Intrepid angle like Japanese propaganda, with the newscaster calling it a " hippu tossu" and such, which was just as bad. And we know that is BS, Yoko wasn't even Japanese. They have real Japanese wrestles they can care about. This the main reason that SS 93 didn't place 1 or 2 on the Something to Wrestle With, Bruce explain this? Vince was probably just bitter that a deal with New Japan or All Japan fell though, that is my guess. And maybe he was mad at Hogan putting over the All Japan title over the WWF title.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Aug 28, 2018 9:44:23 GMT -5
I've always really enjoyed the six-man tag match on this show.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Aug 28, 2018 10:33:10 GMT -5
This I agree with. A foreign heel is one thing--even a foreign heel from a country that's an ally (which would also include Mr. Borga). But the WWF went way past that and was trying to portray the entire *country* of Japan as a heel. Even in 1993 that wasn't going to fly. My father, a not-PC type who relished the bad-taste side of wrestling, even he winced at this act and said, while sort of laughing in disbelief, "They really shouldn't be doing this." The idea of Japan "buying up" America the same way we've thought of China in the past 10-15 years was way out-of-date. They also aired a purported Japanese newscast somewhere on TV around this time covering the Intrepid angle like Japanese propaganda, with the newscaster calling it a " hippu tossu" and such, which was just as bad. And we know that is BS, Yoko wasn't even Japanese. They have real Japanese wrestles they can care about. This the main reason that SS 93 didn't place 1 or 2 on the Something to Wrestle With, Bruce explain this? Vince was probably just bitter that a deal with New Japan or All Japan fell though, that is my guess. And maybe he was mad at Hogan putting over the All Japan title over the WWF title. Think he was just afraid of New or All Japan being a threat to him. That said, this was the perfect chance to fully transition from the 80s to the 90s WWF: Razor Ramon (up and coming superstar) beats Ted DiBiase (WM IV's Tournament runner-up) Shawn Michaels (up and coming superstar) beats Mr. Perfect (former AWA Champion in the 80s and even feuded with Hogan) Lex Luger (up and coming superstar) defeats the man who beat Hulk Hogan and ended his WWF run. Such a perfect chance here to get numbers back up to where they were a few years earlier and Vince choked.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 28, 2018 12:29:27 GMT -5
The Bret Hart/Jerry Lawler program was mainly why I ordered the show, but I was pretty invested in Luger/Yokozuna. The whole patriotic thing didn’t really register with me so much as I thought Yoko was a scary heel because he took out Hogan so convincingly, so Lex had my sympathies.
But Bret and Jerry (also Doink) stole the show that night. The six-man tag kicked ass too.
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auph10imitated
Dennis Stamp
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Post by auph10imitated on Aug 29, 2018 6:29:37 GMT -5
I understood the reasoning behind trying to hold off until Mania. The chase made sense. Especially with lack of heel challengers for Luger to face post Summerslam but it was a huge mistake. They should have done what they did with Hogan in ‘84 and struck while the iron was hot and built towards Bret vs Luger at Mania 10 with one of them going heel closer to the time.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Aug 29, 2018 6:33:39 GMT -5
Good show but damn that ending is nonsensical.
Special shout out to the Bret/Doink/Lawler shit though, That was great.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 29, 2018 7:25:33 GMT -5
I was only in 1st grade at the time, but even I was suspicious of Luger. I had known him as the bad guy who had tried to maim Sting in WCW and knocked Bret Hart out on the eve of Wrestlemania. And now his whole life is about America. It was curious. Also, I associated all American guys with dopes like Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Guys like Hogan and Dusty Rhodes loved America, but were about much more than that. I still cheered for him because I was sure that Yokozuna was going to injure every wrestler in the world and retire as the undefeated champion, but I didn’t really care about him per say. I was just hoping he didn’t get killed and then someone who I actually liked and actually had a chance against Yoko, like the Undertaker, could get the next title shot.
As a whole, I think the show is quite good. And I have a soft spot for this time period for some reason.
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on Aug 29, 2018 8:29:45 GMT -5
I was appaled at the disrespect the Japanese national anthem, like Japan is the Soviet Union during the Cold Wars, they are allies, and friends, our Japanese deseve better. They give us the best video games, electroics, not to mention anime and manga, what is Vince's problem with Japan. Just disgraceful and embarassing. This I agree with. A foreign heel is one thing--even a foreign heel from a country that's an ally (which would also include Mr. Borga). But the WWF went way past that and was trying to portray the entire *country* of Japan as a heel. Even in 1993 that wasn't going to fly. My father, a not-PC type who relished the bad-taste side of wrestling, even he winced at this act and said, while sort of laughing in disbelief, "They really shouldn't be doing this." The idea of Japan "buying up" America the same way we've thought of China in the past 10-15 years was way out-of-date. They also aired a purported Japanese newscast somewhere on TV around this time covering the Intrepid angle like Japanese propaganda, with the newscaster calling it a " hippu tossu" and such, which was just as bad. You have to remember the show was in Detroit (Okay well actually a suburb of Detroit, but still.) and at the time Detroit's main industry: automobiles wasn't doing so hot and most experts pointed the finger at the Japanese auto industry churning out cheaper and more reliable import cars as one of the main reasons. So it's no wonder Vince got the kind of heel heat he was looking for his monster champion from "Japan". This mindset also carried over into the world of sports when just a couple of years prior there was a huge uproar when Nintendo bought the Seattle Mariners. Sports writers and experts form all over were aghast that gasp a foreign interest was trying to take over a beloved American past time, kind of like the way the commentators were playing up being aghast that a foreign heel was trying to take over their beloved American sports entertainment. Was it right? Nope, just your typical jingoistic nonsense that unfortunately pollutes the wrestling world. But it did come from somewhere. I guess they figured this would have been less offensive since this wasn't based on a real world conflict like the Iraq war or Cold war, but still offensive all the same. Now the real question, what was Vince's beef with Finland? (IE: Ludvig Borga.)
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Aug 29, 2018 8:36:51 GMT -5
I understood the reasoning behind trying to hold off until Mania. The chase made sense. Especially with lack of heel challengers for Luger to face post Summerslam but it was a huge mistake. They should have done what they did with Hogan in ‘84 and struck while the iron was hot and built towards Bret vs Luger at Mania 10 with one of them going heel closer to the time. On the heel side, there were only about 3 realistic options. Yoko trying to get his belt back Ludvig Borga as the next foreign heel who was getting a big push Bam Bam Bigelow, just feuded with Tatanka Personally, I'd have had Bam Bam take Tatanka's streak soon after Summerslam and use that as a springboard. More realistically from watching at the time, Borga doing the same. Then later on you have Crush, Diesel, HBK. It's not ideal, but with the talent they had, unless they turned Savage which I don't know they could do at the time, the heels were much weaker.
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