How is the Diva era looked at now?

[willywonka666]

Kinda thought about this after making my last thread, when it comes to those of that era going into the HOF for instance, and I'm not talking about Trish or Mickie, but say someone that was more about eye candy and nothing else-are they going to be respected?

Can anyone really speak of them as "paving the way" when many were objectified and sexualized?

I haven't gone back and watched a lot of attitude era stuff lately, but many say it hasn't aged well.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

At least as far as the company goes, they're painting the entire era with almost comical amounts of tonedeaf vitriol like management somehow wasn't responsible for it and "now the real women are here". It's bizarre.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

The company seems to loathe it more than the fans do

Few of that era are going to get any respect. Beth Phoenix and Michelle Mccool get the love they do no short in thanks to them being better than majority of their counterparts and in their primes would fit into this era. Meanwhile the likes of Kelly Kelly or Maria are remembered fondly but you're not going to get retrospectives on them

The Bellas are a constant reminder of that era thanks to how they started and was able to go. We all know the Brie issues so no point to expand on that and Nikki has shown herself to be a capable wrestler and come a long way. If AJ was still around I think she wouldn't have the "diva stink" on her as while she was okay wrestler she did help bring the title to a more serious direction.

Someone like Paige was probably hurt the most from switching from Diva to Women as she came in at the tail end of the Diva era. Her whole initial shtick was the anti diva and she had the look to match it. If she came a year or 2 later she probably wouldn't have been lost in the shuffle as much as she was though I do think if the injuries didn't shorten her career she probably would have been champ at some point

[xxshoyuweeniexx]

“All these women were terrible wrestlers, I just don’t understand why.”

-John Laurinitas, with one hand down his pants cranking it to 1997 Sunny pictures on AOL

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Going back and watching stuff from that time period now, you see there are a few people who genuinely were trailblazers during those time periods.

People like Luna and Ivory, for one, who at least seemed to be trying to have wrestling matches when they were allowed to. Victoria, Molly, even Lita.

[realist]

Nov 19, 2018 17:55:55 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

The company seems to loathe it more than the fans do

Few of that era are going to get any respect. Beth Phoenix and Michelle Mccool get the love they do no short in thanks to them being better than majority of their counterparts and in their primes would fit into this era. Meanwhile the likes of Kelly Kelly or Maria are remembered fondly but you're not going to get retrospectives on them

The Bellas are a constant reminder of that era thanks to how they started and was able to go. We all know the Brie issues so no point to expand on that and Nikki has shown herself to be a capable wrestler and come a long way. If AJ was still around I think she wouldn't have the "diva stink" on her as while she was okay wrestler she did help bring the title to a more serious direction.

Someone like Paige was probably hurt the most from switching from Diva to Women as she came in at the tail end of the Diva era. Her whole initial shtick was the anti diva and she had the look to match it. If she came a year or 2 later she probably wouldn't have been lost in the shuffle as much as she was though I do think if the injuries didn't shorten her career she probably would have been champ at some point

I also think that their spouses have a lot to do with it.

[Dub H]

completely awful with a few good gems there.

You had your Beth Phoenix and Victoria here and there. but the ones that acted more like a wrestler were never pushed seriously. it seemed to start to move away from there when we had Caitlyn AJ Lee and Paige

[Deleted]

We're in the middle of the stage of historical analysis where the pendulum is swinging back too hard the other way and utterly mediocre talent that no one could think of a good match without having to use google are being praised as good.

Tons of women who were around back then are supposedly good by virtue of just having a different gimmick than Ms. Fanservice.

[Deleted]

They'll push the Litas and Trish Stratuses, as usual, and do everything in their power to whitewash the Toris and BBs from the Attitude Era, and even before the Women's Revolution, will try and make you forget that people like Rosa Mendes and Cameron existed, nevermind those garbage wrestlers were the reasons why Total Divas was promoted; because they were so crappy in the ring, you wanted to see how they acted outside of it.

[Kyn]

Nov 19, 2018 17:55:55 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Beth Phoenix and Michelle Mccool get the love they do no short in thanks to them being better than majority of their counterparts and in their primes would fit into this era.

Michelle McCool gets love? When did that start happening? Most people thought she was rubbish during her run.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Nov 19, 2018 23:31:18 GMT -5 Kyn said:

Nov 19, 2018 17:55:55 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Beth Phoenix and Michelle Mccool get the love they do no short in thanks to them being better than majority of their counterparts and in their primes would fit into this era.

Michelle McCool gets love? When did that start happening? Most people thought she was rubbish during her run.

Nobody loves her as a wrestler or fondly remembers her run.

Let’s just be real about the Divas era, Johnny Ace just hired lingerie models. They were not trained at all during developmental, Greg Gagne ran ovw and he got fired for sexual harassment because the creep entered the female locker room anytime he wanted. Then the other women at DSW had to go through Bill Demott’s hazing and ass donuts.

The fans and the company hate the diva era because a lot of shit that should’ve got them sued happened on their watch.

[schma]

Nov 19, 2018 23:31:18 GMT -5 Kyn said:

Nov 19, 2018 17:55:55 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Beth Phoenix and Michelle Mccool get the love they do no short in thanks to them being better than majority of their counterparts and in their primes would fit into this era.

Michelle McCool gets love? When did that start happening? Most people thought she was rubbish during her run.

I actually liked her for a time.  I gave up on her during Piggie James but I don't think she was nearly as bad as some claim, though she was probably pushed beyond what she should have been.

The thing about the Divas era is that when Finlay started training them, there was actual improvement even with some of the divaest divas.  The thing is, there was still little focus on actual in ring ability in most cases and so it fell off again.

[auph10imitated]

The Diva Era

1999-2001
A division that had capable workers (Luna, Ivory, Tori, Jackie, Lita etc) but were hampered by awful 1 minute matches that never allowed them to do anything, mixed up with dreadful crap like pudding matches, snow bunny matches and evening gown matches. The workers were there, the writing wasnt.

2002-2004
Progress was made with Trish's rise, mixed in with workers who were finally able to show what they can do, adding Jazz, Molly, Victoria and Gail you finally had something of substance. In hindsight looking back, the work was no where near on par with today, but they tried and worked thier asses off

2005-2012
This what people really remember as the "diva era" it was basically good workers (Beth, Mickie, Melina, Jillian etc) putting over models (Maria, Candice, Kelly, Christy, Ashley and The Bellas etc) Had they gotten rid of the models and worked a divison around Beth, Mickie, Melina, Michelle, Jillian, Gail, Katie Lea, Natalya - you'd have back then, what we see today.

2012-2015
Another weird half and half situation, becuase the main roster had lost all of the actually good workers besides AJ Lee and it was cluttered with useless models (and others) such as Aksaka, Cameron, Fox, Eva Marie, Tamina, Layla, etc - meanwhile over on NXT the likes of Paige, Emma and the 4HW were being built and changing the game.

It basically had ups and downs but taking Lita & Trish Stratus out of the equation and forgetting the fact like Ivory, Jackie, Luna, Beth, Melina, Mickie etc were actually great workers the "Diva Era" will now be treated as the red headed stepchild in comparison to Womens Revolution. It is what it is, and for the most part through bad booking and awful model workers, its deserved of that stigma.

[Bub (BLM)]

Mostly as a joke thanks to Johnny Skateboard. When Jim Ross was hiring, you got women like Victoria, Molly, Jazz, Ivory, Jacqueline. You know, ladies who could f***ing wrestle. Then Johnny took over and they started hiring models, giving them minimal training, then throwing them in the ring to stink up the joint. That became the Divas standard until Triple H and those working with him started hiring female athletes again.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Nov 20, 2018 11:41:10 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Mostly as a joke thanks to Johnny Skateboard. When Jim Ross was hiring, you got women like Victoria, Molly, Jazz, Ivory, Jacqueline. You know, ladies who could f***ing wrestle. Then Johnny took over and they started hiring models, giving them minimal training, then throwing them in the ring to stink up the joint. That became the Divas standard until Triple H and those working with him started hiring female athletes again.

And even if they couldn’t wrestle or were limited, JR would sent them to ovw and because he cared about developmental, JR would keep tabs on their progress.

Johnny Asshole killed developmental both with the men and women. He is one of the most pathetic figures of all time.

[Allie Kitsune]

Nov 20, 2018 12:00:27 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Nov 20, 2018 11:41:10 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Mostly as a joke thanks to Johnny Skateboard. When Jim Ross was hiring, you got women like Victoria, Molly, Jazz, Ivory, Jacqueline. You know, ladies who could f***ing wrestle. Then Johnny took over and they started hiring models, giving them minimal training, then throwing them in the ring to stink up the joint. That became the Divas standard until Triple H and those working with him started hiring female athletes again.

And even if they couldn’t wrestle or were limited, JR would sent them to ovw and because he cared about developmental, JR would keep tabs on their progress.

Johnny Asshole killed developmental both with the men and women. He is one of the most pathetic figures of all time.

Motoko Baba won't stand for such speech.

Well, if she was still alive, she wouldn't.

[auph10imitated]

There is no doubt that they could have been where they are now back in 2004, with a roster of Trish, Jazz, Victoria, Gail, Molly, Lita, Ivory, Jacqueline and even Nidia who was becoming a decent hand in the ring, there was even the fact they were looking at hiring Takako Inoue, they had her do tryouts with Jazz and even trademarked her name to be “Takashi” along with the fact Mickie, Beth, Jillian, Melina etc were all down in OVW at the time.

They fired half of the women (Jazz, Nidia, Gail and Jacqueline... Molly followed suit a few months later) and hired all of the Diva Search losers putting them in dreadful roles like “Make up girl” etc. Stuck them all randomly on TV expecting us to differentiate them all and actually give a flying f*** about them.

Johnny Ace.. you are an idiot✌🏾

[joey joe joe junior shabadoo]

Was Eve Torres good?

[Zone Was Wrong]

I remember there was a time when there would be a group of women standing on the ramp or ring and I only name a handful. You pretty much had a good group spread throughout the 2000s and unfortunately they were usually paired with non wrestlers.

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

Ever heard of the Black Plague?

Kinda like that with more thongs.