nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
|
Post by nisidhe on Nov 26, 2018 17:24:50 GMT -5
I'm having a bit of a crisis of faith at the moment.
I've been following elsewhere a bit of a discussion over wrestler pay in the indies, particularly as it pertains to those just starting out.
It's my considered opinion that _anyone_ working in the ring should be paid at least what they're spending in transportation costs and travel expenses; that promoters need to take this into consideration when determining their budgets for presenting a show; and that a kibosh be put on the idea of "paying one's dues" by going into debt in order to work. I seem to recall having said this numerous times over the years here.
Apparently, however, my position has gotten some hard pushback by workers, who feel that keeping more promotions open and operating should be the priority and that workers need the exposure and networking that even poorly-paying shows provide. But is that necessarily good for the industry as a whole? Or is the idea of underpaid or unpaid workers only holding down paydays in general, preventing promotions from growing in profitability and creating a toxic business climate ripe for exploitation by the bigger companies?
Help an old broad out here. Help me understand.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 26, 2018 17:43:10 GMT -5
Little promotors simply can't (or won't but that's a separate problem) pay that much and for a lot of guys the practice and exposure is more important anyways.
Yeah in a perfect world there would be some set rules and enough money going around and enough paying audiences to support every Tom, Dick, and Mildred who wants to make it, but that's unfortunately not reality.
The best description I've seen on how to deal mentally with the lack of pay in the beginning for a lot of wrestlers is to consider it like an internship in the corporate world.
It sucks, and it should be different, but that's the harsh way of it.
|
|
jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
|
Post by jagilki on Nov 26, 2018 17:47:34 GMT -5
Not being an actual wrestler, I can't speak with any authority, but I believe a lot of low level indy people view the chance to get some experience and get themselves "out there" to be a small portion of their "pay".
|
|
Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
|
Post by Square on Nov 26, 2018 17:52:42 GMT -5
When you are just starting the value is more in the ring time, the experience to learn and to make the connections so that you can take steps up.
This isn't ROH or anyone doing it either, when you get to that level you should expect a decent wage. These are the small shows that you learn the craft on.
|
|
|
Post by thetower52 on Nov 26, 2018 18:01:16 GMT -5
All I ask is 25 f***ing dollars and I can’t even get that most places. I travel with a group 99 percent of the time so trans isn’t a issue but I want to just be able to get a decent meal after a show.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 26, 2018 18:05:29 GMT -5
All I ask is 25 f***ing dollars and I can’t even get that most places. I travel with a group 99 percent of the time so trans isn’t a issue but I want to just be able to get a decent meal after a show. How often does it happen where the promoter says no and what excuses are given?
|
|
|
Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Nov 26, 2018 18:14:00 GMT -5
This is obviously an outsider's perspective
but if somebody is willing to put there body on the line for your company least they deserve is not be out of pocket - even if it's only to only pay transpart and/or a meal, it doesn't matter if it's the person's first match or 100th
|
|
|
Post by thetower52 on Nov 26, 2018 18:14:39 GMT -5
All I ask is 25 f***ing dollars and I can’t even get that most places. I travel with a group 99 percent of the time so trans isn’t a issue but I want to just be able to get a decent meal after a show. How often does it happen where the promoter says no and what excuses are given? I’ll say some times it’s my fault and I’ll agree to a show with out even bothering g with asking what the money is but that’s mostly when I haven’t been booked in awhile. Most recently I was working with a company where the base was 20 a show and you could make more depending on the house. Worked there about 6 months and I don’t think I got my full 20 more then twice. The good portion of the time they tried not to pay me at all. I’d go to the payoff person and she would claim again and again that because I wasn’t “o the card” I don’t get paid. Now to her “on the card” meant The American Sasquatch vs . I was In a stable so the vast majority of my matches it was written on the card as The FreakShow vs . Since it didn’t say my name they tried not to pay me Or if I was managing one of my stable mates they tried to say o wasn’t on the card even though I was in front of the crowd on the show and taking bumps as a manager. A few times it ended up with someone else having to slip me like ten dollars so I’d at least have something but a lot of times I went with nothing. A few times when they paid me I was shorted on my 20 anyway
|
|
Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,404
|
Post by Ultimo Gallos on Nov 26, 2018 18:27:33 GMT -5
In mid MS there is 3 main feds.
One runs the Jackson area. Rookies do not get paid. Regulars get 20 bucks. The one that runs my town everyone gets paid. From wrestlers to ring crew to video people. Then there is a fed that runs near Hattiesburg area. They were known for having great pay. But the promoter is now paying way too much to be on tv. So now rookies get 10 bucks,most of the rest of the roster gets 40. And friends of the promoter get 75.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 26, 2018 18:32:42 GMT -5
You're neither crazy or wrong, just possibly a little naive.
The people stacking shelves at Walmart shouldn't get dick pay either, but almost nobody gets paid as much as they should, and many of the people who get paid enough also get paid shitloads more afterwards.
Plus, wrestling may be a combat sport with a lot more risks, but working for free is pretty standard for comedians, actors, musicians, almost any of the creative arts starting out. Wrestling is a particularly extreme example because of the distances and payoffs, and I am NOT a believer in the 'pay your dues' thing, just aware that it exists.
And the wrestlers have a point that if every guy on the show was paid what they were actually worth, there'd probably just not be many shows. Frankly with the indie scene exploding and the internet, it's probably easier to be an independent wrestler than it's ever been.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 26, 2018 20:13:37 GMT -5
All I ask is 25 f***ing dollars and I can’t even get that most places. I travel with a group 99 percent of the time so trans isn’t a issue but I want to just be able to get a decent meal after a show. How often does it happen where the promoter says no and what excuses are given? “I’ll get you next time kid” Ian Rotten
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 20:31:18 GMT -5
promoters pretend they can't afford to pay while they get thousands from each student of their wrestling school
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 20:51:12 GMT -5
The way it is, is the way it should be.
A rookie starting out should follow in the footsteps of those who came before him. It's how the industry works. It's how everyone had to do it for generations before them.
You don't get rewarded for being inexperienced. You first learn your craft, earn your spot, and prove your worth. Once you're able to be an attraction on the card (and your presence on the lineup sells tickets), then you should be paid accordingly.
|
|
Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,111
|
Post by Rave on Nov 26, 2018 21:03:58 GMT -5
How often does it happen where the promoter says no and what excuses are given? “I’ll get you next time kid” Ian Rotten I once knew someone who worked for Ian back in the day, he said Ian tried to pay him in sandwiches that had gone bad. Considering the other stories about Ian out there, I believe it.
|
|
|
Post by abjordans on Nov 26, 2018 21:29:23 GMT -5
I am pretty sure I have been following the same thread as you, OP. What I took from that story is that the couple in question reached out to that promoter and he said sure I’ll use you all and give you $40 each, they were like we are driving 11 hours, and the promoter said ok $45. Then the couple ran to twitter to complain. If the guy reached out to them and offered them that money, that is a shitty offer, but it seemed to me they were just hitting up promoters and then tried to make it as if they were lowballed.
|
|
|
Post by celtics543 on Nov 26, 2018 21:40:19 GMT -5
I guess it depends. In the real world people often intern without pay before starting paid work. In my case I student-taught for a semester without being paid a dime for any of it despite basically working as a full time teacher for an entire 16 week semester. I guess it depends how long you've been in the business and what you're looking to get out of it.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 26, 2018 23:27:59 GMT -5
“I’ll get you next time kid” Ian Rotten I once knew someone who worked for Ian back in the day, he said Ian tried to pay him in sandwiches that had gone bad. Considering the other stories about Ian out there, I believe it. Paying with pills or with food gone bad the Ian Rotten story. What a pathetic human being. The sandwiches probably had hepatitis if he made them.
|
|
Kyn
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,623
|
Post by Kyn on Nov 27, 2018 2:36:47 GMT -5
The way it is, is the way it should be. A rookie starting out should follow in the footsteps of those who came before him. It's how the industry works. It's how everyone had to do it for generations before them. You don't get rewarded for being inexperienced. You first learn your craft, earn your spot, and prove your worth. Once you're able to be an attraction on the card (and your presence on the lineup sells tickets), then you should be paid accordingly. I think there's something to be said for the argument that they're also being paid in exposure and experience, but I don't agree that people should accept unfair conditions (in any line of work) just because that's the way it's always been.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 3:23:41 GMT -5
The way it is, is the way it should be. A rookie starting out should follow in the footsteps of those who came before him. It's how the industry works. It's how everyone had to do it for generations before them. You don't get rewarded for being inexperienced. You first learn your craft, earn your spot, and prove your worth. Once you're able to be an attraction on the card (and your presence on the lineup sells tickets), then you should be paid accordingly. I think there's something to be said for the argument that they're also being paid in exposure and experience, but I don't agree that people should accept unfair conditions (in any line of work) just because that's the way it's always been. Except the industry doesn't feel it's unfair conditions, because it's the accepted way things are done by those within it. Just like one of the earlier replies compared it to unpaid internships in other professions. Greenhorns pay their dues first. If anyone (including the independent wrestlers who brought up this subject with their recent complaints on social media) doesn't want to wrestle for what a promotion is offering them, they can simply say "no." They can instead try work elsewhere, and try to set their own price. In reality, though, just because they think they should be paid a certain amount doesn't mean they're worth that much at the gate, or are going to get that much from promotions. If they don't want the offered $45, they can stay home, complain about it on Twitter, and then wonder why they're not getting bookings (because promotions are now hesitant to offer them anything, due to having a poor attitude).
|
|
TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
|
Post by TGM on Nov 27, 2018 7:08:24 GMT -5
If you think a wrestler should not be paid at all at an event where the audience paid to attend you're wrong.
|
|