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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Nov 30, 2018 21:09:43 GMT -5
I agree that faces need to be winning more and in decisive fashion. I disagree about the shoving fans aside for the sake of building the face though. That shit drove masses of fans away in both the Cena decade and the few years with Roman. The solution is pretty damn simple, listen to the audience and push who is cheered as a face. You know, exactly how wrestling has overall always worked. Why this isn't a common thing anymore for the main WWE roster is way beyond my understanding. Yeah, pushing Roman as the number one face when the crowd were not down for it... ESPECIALLY when there were plenty of other options the fans would be totally down for was driving people away in force... the crowd are telling you who they like... you get INSTANT feedback as to what they like... every other show on the planet WOULD KILL for that type of fan feedback... on a scripted tv show they have to wait until whatever they have shot already has aired before they can pivot and give more screen time to fan favorites... WWE is LIVE every week... and the crowd let them know IMMEDIATELY what they want more of... LISTEN TO THEM. I think Faces need to dominate more... but they still need to have the Heels that actually challenge the face until the face can dominate... I mean Hogan was out for weeks when EArthquake "broke his back" for instance... if they booked Hogan like they were booking Roman for most of his run... he'd have rolled out of the way of the Splash ... speared Earthquake... and then gloated about it every week until the match... and then he'd get beat up for 20 minutes until Roman superman punch, spear... pin. I kinda think a badass face Roman run would've worked if they had him say less and wreck people ala Goldberg.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 30, 2018 21:15:12 GMT -5
Yeah, pushing Roman as the number one face when the crowd were not down for it... ESPECIALLY when there were plenty of other options the fans would be totally down for was driving people away in force... the crowd are telling you who they like... you get INSTANT feedback as to what they like... every other show on the planet WOULD KILL for that type of fan feedback... on a scripted tv show they have to wait until whatever they have shot already has aired before they can pivot and give more screen time to fan favorites... WWE is LIVE every week... and the crowd let them know IMMEDIATELY what they want more of... LISTEN TO THEM. I think Faces need to dominate more... but they still need to have the Heels that actually challenge the face until the face can dominate... I mean Hogan was out for weeks when EArthquake "broke his back" for instance... if they booked Hogan like they were booking Roman for most of his run... he'd have rolled out of the way of the Splash ... speared Earthquake... and then gloated about it every week until the match... and then he'd get beat up for 20 minutes until Roman superman punch, spear... pin. I kinda think a badass face Roman run would've worked if they had him say less and wreck people ala Goldberg. I literally described the Rusev feud and the Jericho/Owens Feud... Roman completely obliterated Rusev in every interaction and never let Rusev stand tall save for one instance in the entire multi month feud. Ditto with Owens/Jericho feud where Roman was clowning both of them until the Title matches where the build up was somehow how could Roman overcome the odds of two people... when he had been for weeks... and then Owens would get disqualified or Braun would attack him or something and Owens would look like a goober.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 30, 2018 21:46:45 GMT -5
Real shit, let em know Clash
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 30, 2018 22:51:30 GMT -5
I agree that faces need to be winning more and in decisive fashion. I disagree about the shoving fans aside for the sake of building the face though. That shit drove masses of fans away in both the Cena decade and the few years with Roman. The solution is pretty damn simple, listen to the audience and push who is cheered as a face. You know, exactly how wrestling has overall always worked. Why this isn't a common thing anymore for the main WWE roster is way beyond my understanding. I’m not advocating shoving all of the fans aside to push a face that isn’t over, or a face that’s so strong that heels have no heat. What I’m saying is that a babyface who isn’t necessarily universally loved by every single fan, like with Goldberg, Cena, or Okada with many crowds, isn’t automatically a failure as a top babyface- and it’s the wise thing to keep protecting them while you’re building up more top stars to compete with them. Because every fan isn’t ever going to get exclusively behind one wrestler if there’s multiple talented performers in a company. Some fans liked Rock and Foley over Austin, and Hogan wasn’t always adored by WWF crowds either. So the Raw team shouldn’t be afraid to pick a face- be it Seth, Braun, Balor, or hell, maybe Drew turns- and let them just win like crazy. Have them truly elevate the red belt’s prestige with a strong ass-kicking run. I know that superhero faces can get tiresome if they run out of challengers, but characters that are both charismatic and tough to beat are catnip for new fans. It’s easy to market a winner. For every fan that was put off by Cena winning- and yes, sometimes he won so often to where it hurt the heels- there were five more kids who loved to watch him beat the bad guys every week. So while a face probably can’t and shouldn’t dominate for Sammartino style runs anymore, I know that Raw would benefit if someone like Seth held the Universal Title for at least a year, closing show after show with wins (which AJ, as much as I’ve enjoyed his reign, also deserved) and serving as the brand’s ace. It’s infinitely a better dilemma to deal with, say, Okada getting mixed reactions with some fans against other over stars like Naito, Tanahashi, Omega, etc, or a Cena competing with hot talent like Dean and AJ in 2016, than the lack of any real face momentum that Raw’s struggling with. Fifty-fifty booking is wrestling suicide. Instead of WWE acting as if the wins don’t matter as much because they want to keep the talent all on this even level, I feel they should just make a decision on who the next (male, because Rousey is the female one) Raw Ace is, and elevate them past the upper midcarders and make a new megastar. And the easiest way to get someone over for that role is to have the ref raise their hand, over and over. Sadly, that also means some other popular midcarders should come close, but never actually win the title. Otherwise, the championships and top spots won’t feel as special if too many workers get the big chance.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 1, 2018 14:20:07 GMT -5
I'd book either Seth or Finn as the "ace" on Raw, personally. The former is at least almost there, what with him being very over with fans as a top face and all. He just needs a good run with the Universal Title to cement it.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 1, 2018 14:28:20 GMT -5
I'd book either Seth or Finn as the "ace" on Raw, personally. The former is at least almost there, what with him being very over with fans as a top face and all. He just needs a good run with the Universal Title to cement it. And it really wouldn’t take too much for Bal... actually, no. I say that all time, but that’s just me being an optimist. What do YOU think would get Balor at least to Rollins’s level or higher?
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 1, 2018 14:29:59 GMT -5
I'd book either Seth or Finn as the "ace" on Raw, personally. The former is at least almost there, what with him being very over with fans as a top face and all. He just needs a good run with the Universal Title to cement it. And it really wouldn’t take too much for Bal... actually, no. I say that all time, but that’s just me being an optimist. What do YOU think would get Balor at least to Rollins’s level or higher? Winning more often, not being used as cannon fodder to make Drew or Lashley look strong. In fact, I'd make Finn and Seth the clear-cut number one and number two faces of Raw who are equal on every level, and give them a kind of Ken and Ryu vibe.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 1, 2018 14:37:55 GMT -5
And it really wouldn’t take too much for Bal... actually, no. I say that all time, but that’s just me being an optimist. What do YOU think would get Balor at least to Rollins’s level or higher? Winning more often, not being used as cannon fodder to make Drew or Lashley look strong. In fact, I'd make Finn and Seth the clear-cut number one and number two faces of Raw who are equal on every level, and give them a kind of Ken and Ryu vibe. Yeah, that was basically what I was going to say... Just string a few wins together, that usually gets you right back on the horse. Worked for Rollins, arguably worked for Lynch, why not Balor? (Weird thing is that Balor actually has more TV wins this year than everyone on the roster except Strowman, but also has the most TV losses this year)
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 1, 2018 14:45:46 GMT -5
Winning more often, not being used as cannon fodder to make Drew or Lashley look strong. In fact, I'd make Finn and Seth the clear-cut number one and number two faces of Raw who are equal on every level, and give them a kind of Ken and Ryu vibe. Yeah, that was basically what I was going to say... Just string a few wins together, that usually gets you right back on the horse. Worked for Rollins, arguably worked for Lynch, why not Balor? (Weird thing is that Balor actually has more TV wins this year than everyone on the roster except Strowman, but also has the most TV losses this year) For me, the important thing (along with Finn winning his matches) is that he doesn't spend most of his time flat on his back in beatdowns. With Seth occupied by the Ambrose angle, Balor should be made even more of a "strong" leader for the babyfaces against Baron Corbin's Authority. That means he shouldn't be the dude the heels always beat up on. He should be the guy helping to ward off heels.
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