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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 16, 2018 23:07:27 GMT -5
They were clearly trying to book it as a match you'd see every Monday night as opposed to one you'd see on PPV.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:07:34 GMT -5
For a random episode of Raw where you need to fill time and you just throw two guys out there for the hell of it, the match was okay I guess. But for these two, with that history? The match blew chunks and I don't want to see Seth, as much as I love him, go on Twitter and call out fans for not liking it. I ain't having it, Seth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:07:55 GMT -5
Didn’t watch but I get the impression is they weren’t allowed to go all out because their is more left in the program plus for some unknown reason in this blood feud they gave them a straight up wrestling match instead of a TLC match That's exactly what it was. Ambrose beat Rollins clean though so that says something. He's the lead heel on Raw right now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:08:37 GMT -5
What I don't get is why it wasn't a Chairs match. You could've built the whole thing around Dean using the same weapon that killed the Shield to begin with, it writes itself.
But no, heaven forbid we just get the storyline over with, gotta drag this shit out to Elimination Chamber or Fastlane or whatever the last PPV before Mania is.
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Post by The Trashman on Dec 16, 2018 23:11:03 GMT -5
Maybe they should have watched some Ciampa vs Gargano matches.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 16, 2018 23:11:42 GMT -5
Didn’t watch but I get the impression is they weren’t allowed to go all out because their is more left in the program plus for some unknown reason in this blood feud they gave them a straight up wrestling match instead of a TLC match That's exactly what it was. Ambrose beat Rollins clean though so that says something. He's the lead heel on Raw right now. Well that’s one positive it was a clean win but yeah this seemed like Orton/HHH at WM 25 if I had to guess Two dudes that hate each other but we must have a 25 min match for reasons instead of a hotly contested 15 min match making the fans want more
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jagilki
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Post by jagilki on Dec 16, 2018 23:12:42 GMT -5
In a vacuum. Just presented this match it'd be a fin match. But for the story we've been told the match was severely lackluster. It's supposed to be a feud where Dean turned his back on Seth in such a vile disgusting way that Seth should of been uncontrolable with rage. It's should of been a savage fight from his side. Dean could of been the cowardly heel or gone for a more violent heel. Either way.
Instead they slowed waaaaay done and went with paint by the numbers, go through the motions
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Post by deadzeppelin on Dec 16, 2018 23:17:06 GMT -5
I'll say again this was a blood feud with a chinlock 3 minutes into the match. I don't think this was the fault of match placement. The agents or whomever is responsible booked this so horridly. Dean and Seth should have came out swinging and just had a wild brawl.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:18:59 GMT -5
I really don't understand WWE's, "Let's have them put on a shitty match to save it for the big match," philosophy. Wouldn't it make vastly more sense to try to make the first match so good that people want to see more instead of pretty much suffocating the feud in the crib?
It doesn't really help that even when they do that you get no guarantees the end match actually delivers anyway. Like the boring ass AJ / Nakamura series where the blowoff was a Last Man Standing match where about five minutes of it were actually good.
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Post by Jacy Jayne Atomic Dog AMV on Dec 16, 2018 23:22:04 GMT -5
It wasn't that the match was "bad" like a bad match is typically bad. But it was overlong, sluggish, underwhelming, and clearly meant as a filler match that can't do much because it's "not time yet". It was the best reenactment of Lesnar vs. Taker at Mania 30 I've ever seen
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:23:24 GMT -5
In a vacuum. Just presented this match it'd be a fin match. But for the story we've been told the match was severely lackluster. It's supposed to be a feud where Dean turned his back on Seth in such a vile disgusting way that Seth should of been uncontrolable with rage. It's should of been a savage fight from his side. Dean could of been the cowardly heel or gone for a more violent heel. Either way. Instead they slowed waaaaay done and went with paint by the numbers, go through the motions You never would've known that Ambrose DDTed Seth on the f***ing floor, which very well could've kayfabe ended his career given everything we know about head injuries.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 16, 2018 23:24:55 GMT -5
Honestly I see no reason this match had to happen if they didn't want to have it mean shit-all. Do something else instead; let Seth defend his title against someone else, Dean jumps him post-show or finds some other face to menace in the meantime. Hell maybe put a face challenger in and have Dean just totally destroy him or even both of them backstage so you have two faces both hurting and broken down from Dean's ambushes but still trying their best. Do f***ing something of substacne at all, PPVs are not episodes of Raw, they shouldn't just have weird filler bits that just keep a story in statis.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:25:18 GMT -5
It wasn't that the match was "bad" like a bad match is typically bad. But it was overlong, sluggish, underwhelming, and clearly meant as a filler match that can't do much because it's "not time yet". It was the best reenactment of Lesnar vs. Taker at Mania 30 I've ever seen That's basically what it was. Lesnar / Taker if you splice in Dean blowing himself up with a TV but with Seth's face superimposed over his.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Dec 16, 2018 23:28:27 GMT -5
My real issue is that it never got out of first gear. And it was on the heels of a methodical match that was miles better.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 16, 2018 23:31:43 GMT -5
I thought it was the worst match on the PPV given the stakes involved and who was in it. The HHH/Orton WM match was what my brother and I discussed as it was happening, noting these two blood rivals in a heated feud were out there kinda having this plodding, ho hum wrestling match, running the ropes, exchanging holds, etc. I'm also not sure why they put this in the death spot on the card between Bryan/Styles and the women's TLC. That's a spot for the silly Mixed Match deal, not a major match.
Also, I think Rollins might be screwed after this. Keep in mind the rumors of him facing Lesnar at WM. After watching this crappy match, the crowd turning on it, and then him jobbing clean in the center, who in their right mind would put this guy against Lesnar in a WM main event? If I'm Vince I'm switching Styles to Raw immediately and having him win the Rumble so that fans might not crap all over a WM main event yet again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:34:06 GMT -5
Also, I think Rollins might be screwed after this. Keep in mind the rumors of him facing Lesnar at WM. After watching this crappy match, the crowd turning on it, and then him jobbing clean in the center, who in their right mind would put this guy against Lesnar in a WM main event? If I'm Vince I'm switching Styles to Raw immediately and having him win the Rumble so that fans might not crap all over a WM main event yet again. The Lesnar match will be saved for someone young who can get the Lesnar match endorsement as the temporary Guy. Styles is 41. If you're Vince then you'll see AJ's age and nixed that which is why he's not The Guy right now. Rollins just needs a great Rumble performance he's fine. If you take those storyline aspects and let him do what it do in matches he's always good. He's just not great with this one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:35:01 GMT -5
I don't think it necessarily needed to be a gimmick match. They can save that for the Rumble. But there have been tons of examples of standard singles matches over the years that felt like brawls without even using weapons. I don't know who put that match together and how much of the blame belongs with Seth and Dean as well, but that was lame.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:44:45 GMT -5
Love Dean. Can’t get into Seth, but I know he’s in his spot for a reason.
I didn’t watch the show, but when I heard this match didn’t have a gimmick, it should have either ended in a double count out or double DQ.
If they wanted to keep playing cat and mouse, they could have saved this finish for the Rumble.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 16, 2018 23:48:38 GMT -5
Finish could've been Seth getting himself DQed after Ambrose pushes him over the line or something, then you get the big gimmick match for the Rumble.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 0:03:00 GMT -5
Finish could've been Seth getting himself DQed after Ambrose pushes him over the line or something, then you get the big gimmick match for the Rumble. ^THIS First match should have had Seth going in with all the emotion and Ambrose as the coward getting in his shots..escapes with the win but not the title because Seth cared about nothing else but to hurt him in return for his betrayl and gets DQed Next match have Dean cheat in every which way and takes the IC title from Seth...maybe even shelving Seth for a bit to push them apart final match in a cage match Dean retains his title in a flukish way against Seth but finally takes the revenge beating Seth has been proclaiming to give him for months...Dean keeps the title but Seth ends the story and moves onto the universal title.
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