Article about the “snobbery” directed towards wrestling

[mrbananagrabber]

...written by Stephen Merchant, director of Fighting With My Family.

www.theguardian.com/film/2019/mar/01/spandex-snobbery-liberal-elite-wrestling-working-class?CMP=fb_gu

A decent read, although I’m a bit disappointed to find Merchant (who im a huge fan of thanks to his work with Ricky Gervais) was never a wrestling fan.

[Ben Wyatt]

People can mock wrestling and wrestling fans all they want but I always argue that it's no faker than whatever your favorite show is.

Part of the problem though is that wrestling fans treat *each other* like crap. Nobody is going to respect us or what we love if we can't even do it ourselves

[Deleted]

Someone here once said no one hates wrestling fans more than other wrestling fans and it's 100% accurate.

Really, I've encountered more people in real life who like or liked wrestling at one time than people who thumbed their nose at it.

[Deleted]

Look, people like what they like. Don’t be “THAT guy” who puts somebody else’s interests down.

Somebody out there f***ing loves golf. I never cared for it. I think it’s boring as shit. But if somebody said to me “I love golf!”... I wouldn’t feel the need to shit all over them and put them down.

Wrestling is no different. Some people think it’s stupid and that’s fine. I won’t change their mind and they won’t change mine. The whole “You know it’s fake, right?” thing isn’t even worth dignifying with a response. If someone honestly believes you think it’s real, let them. They’re not worth your time and they’re too ignorant to understand anyway. I could try and convince them all night about how it’s the same as The Walking Dead but they won’t “get it”... they’ll say something along the lines of “The Walking Dead doesn’t pretend it’s real!” And I’ve had that response before. If you watch The Walking Dead or ANY show or movie that pretty much ever existed, they will pretend it’s real. They play the movie out as if it’s “real life” so I don’t get this logic either.

I feel like WWE would benefit massively by admitting it’s a show more often. Obviously not ON the show. We don’t want any more of the whole “I don’t care what the script says!” shit but if they were on talk shows and they were introduced as their real names, and talked about how they were working this storyline the way actors do, I feel that could be a massive step in the right direction.

[ayumidah]

There's in-fighting in pretty much every fandom I've ever glanced at, though. Wrestling is definitely not unique in that.

[Ben Wyatt]

Mar 1, 2019 14:18:04 GMT -5 @dax said:

Someone here once said no one hates wrestling fans more than other wrestling fans and it's 100% accurate.

Really, I've encountered more people in real life who like or liked wrestling at one time than people who thumbed their nose at it.

I've said it a few times but I can't lay claim to being the only one

[repomark]

I suppose the slight difference with wrestling and movies or tv shows is that no one on the movie/tv show is implying it is real. The premise of wrestling, is that everyone in it is pretending it is real to the viewership. (Well, other than Ronda Rousey - but that is a different thread!)

Yes kayfabe is not as strict as it once was, and yes it is now openly called “sports entertainment”, but there is still this need to protect the secrets of the business that makes a lot of non fans who look down on us think that everyone who watches wrestling believes it isn’t pre determined.

I think that is the stigma that it struggles to shake and is so impossible to explain to people who don’t watch.

[Push R Truth]

Only True Wrestling Fans will have two of their top ten matches be Chamber of Horrors and the Gimmick Battle Royale.

[Deleted]

the premature deaths added a lot to the stigma

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

It will never be respected because wrestling portrayed himself as real despite being exposed as fake since the forties, and if you asked the wrestlers they would lie to you or hurt you just to prove a point.

I don’t think wrestling will ever outlive the embarrassment of David Schultz slapping John Stossell.

[MrElijah]

Mar 1, 2019 15:01:59 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

Only True Wrestling Fans will have two of their top ten matches be Chamber of Horrors and the Gimmick Battle Royale.

I wonder how the process of booking that Match ended up with Abdullah The Butcher getting murdered.

[Push R Truth]

Mar 1, 2019 15:50:14 GMT -5 MrElijah said:

Mar 1, 2019 15:01:59 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

Only True Wrestling Fans will have two of their top ten matches be Chamber of Horrors and the Gimmick Battle Royale.

I wonder how the process of booking that Match ended up with Abdullah The Butcher getting murdered.

Divine inspiration and/or drugs

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Mar 1, 2019 15:33:01 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

It will never be respected because wrestling portrayed himself as real despite being exposed as fake since the forties, and if you asked the wrestlers they would lie to you or hurt you just to prove a point.

I don’t think wrestling will ever outlive the embarrassment of David Schultz slapping John Stossell.

That's why I hate the defense of "Yeah, well your favorite show/movie is just as fake!" Bob Odenkirk isn't on TV giving shady law advice when he's on The Tonight Show. Chris Evans isn't doing promotion for Avengers:Endgame by mourning the loss of half the universe's population. TV shows and movies have never presented themselves as reality yet pro wrestling did, and went to insane lengths to protect the ruse despite it being entertainment's most open secret, for decades. That's why it gets the "That shit's fake!" when other shows don't. They made their carny bed, now they have to carny lie in it.

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2019 16:58:10 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

Mar 1, 2019 15:33:01 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

It will never be respected because wrestling portrayed himself as real despite being exposed as fake since the forties, and if you asked the wrestlers they would lie to you or hurt you just to prove a point.

I don’t think wrestling will ever outlive the embarrassment of David Schultz slapping John Stossell.

That's why I hate the defense of "Yeah, well your favorite show/movie is just as fake!" Bob Odenkirk isn't on TV giving shady law advice when he's on The Tonight Show. Chris Evans isn't doing promotion for Avengers:Endgame by mourning the loss of half the universe's population. TV shows and movies have never presented themselves as reality yet pro wrestling did, and went to insane lengths to protect the ruse despite it being entertainment's most open secret, for decades. That's why it gets the "That shit's fake!" when other shows don't. They made their carny bed, now they have to carny lie in it.

When was the last time a wrestler went on a talk show and pretended it was real though? All the examples given so far in this thread are from 20-30 years ago. When Cena went on talk shows did he pretend it was real? Did Austin? Do Bryan, Ambrose, Reigns, or Rollins do this currently?

Also do their reality tv shows like Total Divas act like it is real? I don't really pay much attention to interviews or reality tv so I'm honestly asking. I thought wrestlers outside of wrestling were pretty open regarding kayfabe nowadays.

If they are acting like it is real outside of wrestling then yeah this argument holds weight but if they are not then it's like arguing that wrestlers all do steroids... It's an archaic argument that doesn't make sense in this day and age.

Twitter is an interesting part of this because the accounts seem to be a mix of real and kayfabe without much rhyme or reason. They should have a stricter social media so we don't live in this weird middle ground we do now on Twitter.

[thecrusherwi]

Mar 1, 2019 17:54:12 GMT -5 @awataurne said:

Mar 1, 2019 16:58:10 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

That's why I hate the defense of "Yeah, well your favorite show/movie is just as fake!" Bob Odenkirk isn't on TV giving shady law advice when he's on The Tonight Show. Chris Evans isn't doing promotion for Avengers:Endgame by mourning the loss of half the universe's population. TV shows and movies have never presented themselves as reality yet pro wrestling did, and went to insane lengths to protect the ruse despite it being entertainment's most open secret, for decades. That's why it gets the "That shit's fake!" when other shows don't. They made their carny bed, now they have to carny lie in it.

When was the last time a wrestler went on a talk show and pretended it was real though? All the examples given so far in this thread are from 20-30 years ago. When Cena went on talk shows did he pretend it was real? Did Austin? Do Bryan, Ambrose, Reigns, or Rollins do this currently?

Also do their reality tv shows like Total Divas act like it is real? I don't really pay much attention to interviews or reality tv so I'm honestly asking. I thought wrestlers outside of wrestling were pretty open regarding kayfabe nowadays.

If they are acting like it is real outside of wrestling then yeah this argument holds weight but if they are not then it's like arguing that wrestlers all do steroids... It's an archaic argument that doesn't make sense in this day and age.

Twitter is an interesting part of this because the accounts seem to be a mix of real and kayfabe without much rhyme or reason. They should have a stricter social media so we don't live in this weird middle ground we do now on Twitter.

For years, they’ve done a pretty good job of being on these things and saying things like “I got (X) and WrestleMania and they’re gonna have their hands full, because I’m going full throttle”. So it doesn’t break kayfabe, but it allows for you to deduce that it’s a show.

[mrbananagrabber]

Mar 1, 2019 17:57:54 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Mar 1, 2019 17:54:12 GMT -5 @awataurne said:

When was the last time a wrestler went on a talk show and pretended it was real though? All the examples given so far in this thread are from 20-30 years ago. When Cena went on talk shows did he pretend it was real? Did Austin? Do Bryan, Ambrose, Reigns, or Rollins do this currently?

Also do their reality tv shows like Total Divas act like it is real? I don't really pay much attention to interviews or reality tv so I'm honestly asking. I thought wrestlers outside of wrestling were pretty open regarding kayfabe nowadays.

If they are acting like it is real outside of wrestling then yeah this argument holds weight but if they are not then it's like arguing that wrestlers all do steroids... It's an archaic argument that doesn't make sense in this day and age.

Twitter is an interesting part of this because the accounts seem to be a mix of real and kayfabe without much rhyme or reason. They should have a stricter social media so we don't live in this weird middle ground we do now on Twitter.

For years, they’ve done a pretty good job of being on these things and saying things like “I got (X) and WrestleMania and they’re gonna have their hands full, because I’m going full throttle”. So it doesn’t break kayfabe, but it allows for you to deduce that it’s a show.

There was a video interview with Kane, and it was with Glen Jacobs talking about his life etc, so not a “Kane” interview. The guy interviewing him had no idea about wrestling, and he asked what moves he did, so Kane talked about the tombstone and the choke slam, and the guy asked something like “and how do you do it so it doesn’t hurt the other guy?” And Kane looked sort of annoyed and said “well, that’s sort of a trade secret, we don’t talk about that.”

So there still that nagging sense of “keeping kayfabe” even though the cat is 100% out of the bag. I don’t think that will ever change.

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2019 20:30:28 GMT -5 mrbananagrabber said:

Mar 1, 2019 17:57:54 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

For years, they’ve done a pretty good job of being on these things and saying things like “I got (X) and WrestleMania and they’re gonna have their hands full, because I’m going full throttle”. So it doesn’t break kayfabe, but it allows for you to deduce that it’s a show.

There was a video interview with Kane, and it was with Glen Jacobs talking about his life etc, so not a “Kane” interview. The guy interviewing him had no idea about wrestling, and he asked what moves he did, so Kane talked about the tombstone and the choke slam, and the guy asked something like “and how do you do it so it doesn’t hurt the other guy?” And Kane looked sort of annoyed and said “well, that’s sort of a trade secret, we don’t talk about that.”

So there still that nagging sense of “keeping kayfabe” even though the cat is 100% out of the bag. I don’t think that will ever change.

Off the top of my head, Becky's interviews are usually a weird mix of her being Becky Lynch and Rebecca Quin. Lana's another one I've seen try to keep kayfabe as well.

[The Barber]

Mar 1, 2019 17:54:12 GMT -5 @awataurne said:

Mar 1, 2019 16:58:10 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

That's why I hate the defense of "Yeah, well your favorite show/movie is just as fake!" Bob Odenkirk isn't on TV giving shady law advice when he's on The Tonight Show. Chris Evans isn't doing promotion for Avengers:Endgame by mourning the loss of half the universe's population. TV shows and movies have never presented themselves as reality yet pro wrestling did, and went to insane lengths to protect the ruse despite it being entertainment's most open secret, for decades. That's why it gets the "That shit's fake!" when other shows don't. They made their carny bed, now they have to carny lie in it.

Also do their reality tv shows like Total Divas act like it is real? I don't really pay much attention to interviews or reality tv so I'm honestly asking. I thought wrestlers outside of wrestling were pretty open regarding kayfabe nowadays.

I've said it for years: reality programs are the new pro wrestling. Most of them (try, at least) to keep kayfabe and the audience are mostly viewed as 'rubes who don't know it's fake'.

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

Mar 1, 2019 16:58:10 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

Mar 1, 2019 15:33:01 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

It will never be respected because wrestling portrayed himself as real despite being exposed as fake since the forties, and if you asked the wrestlers they would lie to you or hurt you just to prove a point.

I don’t think wrestling will ever outlive the embarrassment of David Schultz slapping John Stossell.

That's why I hate the defense of "Yeah, well your favorite show/movie is just as fake!" Bob Odenkirk isn't on TV giving shady law advice when he's on The Tonight Show. Chris Evans isn't doing promotion for Avengers:Endgame by mourning the loss of half the universe's population. TV shows and movies have never presented themselves as reality yet pro wrestling did, and went to insane lengths to protect the ruse despite it being entertainment's most open secret, for decades. That's why it gets the "That shit's fake!" when other shows don't. They made their carny bed, now they have to carny lie in it.

Nobody thinks Penn Jillette is actually catching a bullet with his teeth, but I’d be pretty f***ing disappointed if he went on Letterman and explained exactly how they did the trick. Wrestling should be viewed the same. Yes, we’re all in on the “secret”, but a detailed explanation about how everything works just takes the fun out of it

["Cane Dewey" Johnson]

Mar 1, 2019 14:18:04 GMT -5 @dax said:

Someone here once said no one hates wrestling fans more than other wrestling fans and it's 100% accurate.

Really, I've encountered more people in real life who like or liked wrestling at one time than people who thumbed their nose at it.

The wrestlers and promoters themselves?