Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Mar 10, 2019 10:20:25 GMT -5
I find it disturbing how the media are now calling him a monster like this documentary is the smoking gun they've been looking for. There's still no proof. Nothing has changed since the trial.
I'm not saying he's innocent, but I'm bit calling him guilty either. This is a documentary like any other designed to sell you on something.
|
|
|
Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Mar 10, 2019 10:58:42 GMT -5
Just saw part 1. Safechuck seemed really disturbed by all of it and I have no trouble believing his story. Robson’s interview didn’t convince me as much. He seemed a little off, right? Like he was trying to convince us, right? I dunno, gonna check out part 2 tomorrow. I just watched part 1 myself. The first half hour started off like a super fan’s dream. Then it goes into creep mode most of the way throughout. They were both pretty convincing to me, especially their mothers. Robson did feel coached at times. The way he kept emphasizing his age or the age of his body parts almost every time he described what was being done to him. The more the show went on the more uncomfortable it got. I thought I recognized the name Wade Robson. He was Britney Spears’s choreographer during her big breakout and a few years after that. There’s a very strong rumor that he was the guy Britney cheated with which ended things with Timberlake. I heard Robson denied being abused by Jackson in the past. Robson has been married to a woman since 2005. I would imagine he identifies as straight so maybe he was concerned about being shamed for going along with Jackson’s advances. I haven’t seen part 2 so I don’t know if any of that is addressed or not.
|
|
|
Post by karl100589 on Mar 10, 2019 16:00:59 GMT -5
You know guys, about the Simpsons pulling the Michael Jackson episode... I get it, but I really wish they didn't do it. Not because I'm a huge fan of Michael Jackson, but because of my stance on media being pulled because of changed values in society. I guess this is similar to WWE not referencing Chris Benoit, but the producers can actually pull it because he was in only one episode. I'm not saying celebrate it, but keep it in circulation with the understanding of the time and conditions in which it occured. Also that show has a lot of historical relevance to the series, as Jackson was the first star to appear on the Simpsons, paving the way for literally every guest star since whose name isn’t Al Brooks Forgetting someone?
|
|
|
Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 10, 2019 16:21:57 GMT -5
Hmmm... abcnews.go.com/US/michael-jacksons-nanny-defends-sex-abuse-allegations-hbos/story?id=61531201---- Rwaramba contended in her statement that there was an "army" of people working at Jackson’s California ranch whenever the iconic artist was there, and that it would have been extremely difficult for the star to molest visiting children. “I was at Neverland when many of the family friends would come and go," Rwaramba said in the statement. "At any given time, anywhere between 60 to 100 employees worked in security, maintenance, housekeeping, grounds, the kitchen, and many other roles. Maintaining the ranch in such immaculate shape took an entire army of workers that were always around.” ---- Rwaramba, who acknowledges she doesn’t know whether or not Jackson molested the two men, described Robeson and his mother as determined to use Jackson’s fame and celebrity to make him a star. “I know Wade Robson and his family well,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “I first met Joy Robson back in the early 90s, when I was at MJJ Productions. In late 1994, I attended the release party of Wade’s first album in California. I distinctly recall Joy running that event as though her life depended on it. After that release party, I didn’t see the Robsons again until early 1997, when Wade joined several other families at Neverland after Prince was born.” ---- “Over the years, I got to know the Robsons well as they visited the ranch on many different occasions,” Rwaramba continued in the statement. “Neverland was an enchanting place where the butlers, cooks, maids, zookeepers, gardeners and other staff made every guest feel like royalty, and everyone person who was fortunate to visit loved it!” “The one thing that was consistent about the Robsons over the years was Joy's steely resolve to turn Wade into a star,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “When all the other kids, often including Michael, were off having water balloon fights or watching a movie in the theater, Joy would be drilling Wade on a dance move and every so often wave Michael over for some tips.” “On one such occasion, Michael sat next to me as I was watching Prince and we watched Wade practice under Joy’s focused inspection. He said to me, “she reminds me of Joseph,” referring to his father’s obsession with perfection. Unbeknownst to Joy, that was her nickname. Michael had a nickname for everyone. This was the only time I ever heard him compare anyone to his father. Also, despite his complicated past with Joseph, he meant this observation as a compliment.” ---- Rwaramba also claimed that Robson sought permission to hold his wedding at Neverland -– in the middle of Jackson’s 2005 criminal trial, for which he was acquitted of all charges. “The Robsons’ ambition and self-interest knew no bounds,” Rwaramba wrote in her statement. “Several months before Michael was acquitted on all charges on June 13, 2005, he came home from court and informed me that I should expect a call from Wade. When Wade called the ranch, security patched the call through to Paris’s room where Michael and I spent most of our time preparing for the next day. "I put him on speaker phone," Rwaramaba continued. "He informed me that Michael had advised him to contact me about whether he and his finance, Amanda, could have their wedding at Neverland in the fall. I was utterly shocked by how insensitive the request was; Michael was sitting next to me. "’You know Grace, Neverland is so special to my family and me,’ Wade continued,” according to Rwaramba’s statement. “’Michael has been like a father to me, and it would mean the world to us if Amanda and I could get married at Neverland.’ I told Wade, this is not a good time, reminding him that Michael was in the middle of the fight for his life.” ---- Rwaramaba wrote in the statement. "Why would someone who alleges to have been assaulted for over seven years want to have one of the most sacred events in his life on the same property where the attacks allegedly took place?’” ---- Rwaramba, a Rwandan national, began working as a personnel director and assistant to Jackson in 1992, and became a nanny to his children beginning in 1997, when Jackson’s first child, Prince, was born. “For twelve years, from 1997 to 2009, I was part of Michael’s family … I spent more time with Michael in the last twelve years of his life than anyone except his children.”
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Mar 10, 2019 16:29:15 GMT -5
I’ve struggled back and forth on my thoughts of Leaving Neverland because these kinds of documentaries, especially when the subject is dead, aren’t an unbiased source of information. I’m not saying Jackson didn’t do anything, and you could go forever on whether you believe he did or didn’t abuse children, but you can’t watch these without a decent-sized grain of salt.
|
|
|
Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Mar 10, 2019 18:06:11 GMT -5
Grown women calling him their baby, acting like he's this precious delicate soul...if he can sell this persona so easily from afar, it makes it easier to imagine how those enamored with his celebrity up-close were duped, too. David Bowie wasn't the man who sold the world, Michael Jackson was.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 10, 2019 18:11:01 GMT -5
It helps to remember too that 'oh I'm just a whimsical Peter Pan' thing WAS a persona. Like that falsetto voice for example, dude didn't talk like that all the time that was part of the act.
Not saying he did/didn't do something, or that persona was a factor in whether he did or not; BUT I do think lots of people get taken in by the persona into thinking "he could never do something like that" when the Michael Jackson he presented to the world was kayfabe for lack of a better term.
|
|
|
Post by DiBiase is Good on Mar 10, 2019 18:14:59 GMT -5
Also that show has a lot of historical relevance to the series, as Jackson was the first star to appear on the Simpsons, paving the way for literally every guest star since whose name isn’t Al Brooks Forgetting someone? Yep. Kelsey Grammer!
|
|
wildojinx
Wade Wilson
Posts: 26,828
Member is Online
|
Post by wildojinx on Mar 10, 2019 18:18:41 GMT -5
Forgetting someone? Yep. Kelsey Grammer! How we all forget Penny Marshall (and if you want to count June Foray, she was in that same episode),
|
|
|
Post by DiBiase is Good on Mar 10, 2019 18:20:59 GMT -5
How we all forget Penny Marshall (and if you want to count June Foray, she was in that same episode), I thought that episode was after the first Sideshow Bob one?
|
|
|
Post by Ganon83 on Mar 10, 2019 18:49:35 GMT -5
Also that show has a lot of historical relevance to the series, as Jackson was the first star to appear on the Simpsons, paving the way for literally every guest star since whose name isn’t Al Brooks Forgetting someone? You’re right, but Ringo definitely wasn’t nearly as huge in the early 90’s as Jackson was. Hell I don’t think McCartney would have cameoed if Jackson hadn’t first
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Mar 10, 2019 19:37:39 GMT -5
I bet that is was really Kevin Sullivan in a Michael Jackson mask that caused these four kids to think they were molested.
|
|
|
Post by arrogantmodel on Mar 10, 2019 19:50:36 GMT -5
I just remember Wade from The Wade Robson Project on MTV.. Me and my roommate in college used to watch and make fun of it.
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,036
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 11, 2019 2:15:05 GMT -5
How we all forget Penny Marshall (and if you want to count June Foray, she was in that same episode), I thought that episode was after the first Sideshow Bob one? It was made first. The Babysitter Bandit one was the first episode they got back and was so terrible, they delayed the series and redid like, 90% of it so it ended up broadcast at the end of the season.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 11, 2019 9:07:35 GMT -5
It helps to remember too that 'oh I'm just a whimsical Peter Pan' thing WAS a persona. Like that falsetto voice for example, dude didn't talk like that all the time that was part of the act. Not saying he did/didn't do something, or that persona was a factor in whether he did or not; BUT I do think lots of people get taken in by the persona into thinking "he could never do something like that" when the Michael Jackson he presented to the world was kayfabe for lack of a better term. If you listen to Michael’s voice during some phone calls, his voice is naturally soft in the way all of the Jacksons’ voices tend to sound. His real voice was closer to his brothers, but he never talked like Low-Ki.
|
|
|
Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Mar 11, 2019 9:23:54 GMT -5
Watched Part 2 last night. It was so strange how protective both of these guys were of Jackson even after they were taken advantage of. They really loved him. They talked about how everyone they came in contact with loved him too. That they didn’t see what they had was wrong since everyone else loved him too. They just wanted his attention. They didn’t really see themselves as victims until they had kids themselves. Then something clicked in their heads and seriously depressed them. They worried for their own children. They never wanted anything like that to happen to their kids. Having kids changes people so I can see them changing their perspective on things. It’s still really disturbing how they seemed to be completely under a spell with Jackson and for so long after. I get that he was one of the biggest stars in the world but I’ll still never really understand it. I don’t think I want to either. It’s really creepy stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 11, 2019 9:26:17 GMT -5
It helps to remember too that 'oh I'm just a whimsical Peter Pan' thing WAS a persona. Like that falsetto voice for example, dude didn't talk like that all the time that was part of the act. Not saying he did/didn't do something, or that persona was a factor in whether he did or not; BUT I do think lots of people get taken in by the persona into thinking "he could never do something like that" when the Michael Jackson he presented to the world was kayfabe for lack of a better term. If you listen to Michael’s voice during some phone calls, his voice is naturally soft in the way all of the Jacksons’ voices tend to sound. His real voice was closer to his brothers, but he never talked like Low-Ki. Right, but his little pixie inflections and just wasn't him either. Not Barry White, but not Barry Gibb
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 11, 2019 9:50:57 GMT -5
Watched Part 2 last night. It was so strange how protective both of these guys were of Jackson even after they were taken advantage of. They really loved him. They talked about how everyone they came in contact with loved him too. That they didn’t see what they had was wrong since everyone else loved him too. They just wanted his attention. They didn’t really see themselves as victims until they had kids themselves. Then something clicked in their heads and seriously depressed them. They worried for their own children. They never wanted anything like that to happen to their kids. Having kids changes people so I can see them changing their perspective on things. It’s still really disturbing how they seemed to be completely under a spell with Jackson and for so long after. I get that he was one of the biggest stars in the world but I’ll still never really understand it. I don’t think I want to either. It’s really creepy stuff. It fits with all sorts of abuse cases though. "Why didn't you leave your husband? He was beating you." "He loves me."
|
|
|
Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 11, 2019 9:56:26 GMT -5
If you listen to Michael’s voice during some phone calls, his voice is naturally soft in the way all of the Jacksons’ voices tend to sound. His real voice was closer to his brothers, but he never talked like Low-Ki. Right, but his little pixie inflections and just wasn't him either. Not Barry White, but not Barry Gibb His former security guards have said he 'became Michael Jackson' when they alerted him of visitors or paparazzi in the grounds. The make-up came on, the wigs on and the voice changed to falsetto. Keeping up an image to trade on is neither here nor there in these alleged accusations. Was this a specially crafted persona to ensnare victims? Cannot say for sure. But like the trial before, for me, questions remain about the validity of the claims, the motive, who is behind this documentary, why now and a lot more.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 11, 2019 9:59:00 GMT -5
Sure, like I said before it doesn't mean he was an abuser or not. I do believe it influences how some think "he couldn't possibly have done it!"
|
|