chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,895
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Apr 7, 2019 8:53:00 GMT -5
If you had removed the ROH Matches and had a Jr Tag, Ishii vs Suzuki and a filler 8 man tag. This would've been a Show of the Year candidate
|
|
Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
Posts: 62,159
|
Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Apr 7, 2019 8:53:15 GMT -5
I wanna see GOD vs the Usos
|
|
Convoy
El Dandy
Rusev admits to being a sex addict to large applause.
Posts: 7,527
|
Post by Convoy on Apr 7, 2019 9:36:06 GMT -5
If you had removed the ROH Matches and had a Jr Tag, Ishii vs Suzuki and a filler 8 man tag. This would've been a Show of the Year candidate This. It was hilarious how much the Rumble reactions differed for someone like Yoshi-Hashi or Haku vs. any ROH guy aside from Cheeseburger. I’m reading threads now and clearly the production was an issue. Unfortunate that the crowd didn’t come across well, as we were shaking the Garden with noise during parts of the Rumble, Ospreay/Cobb, Jr. 3-Way, Naito/Ibushi and Okada/White.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Apr 7, 2019 9:58:03 GMT -5
NJPW/ROH G1 Supercard April 6th, 2019 | Madison Square Garden in New York, New York
Honor Rumble Think of this like the RAMBO they run before Wrestle Kingdom each year. Kenny King apparently requested to enter at #1. He probably regretted it as soon as Minoru Suzuki came out second to a monster pop. They made sure to give us another taste of Shingo vs. SHO and ultimately LIJ vs. Roppongi 3K. They better book Shingo vs. SHO at BOTSJ. There were a handful of fun entrants, though I had no clue who a lot of the ROH guys were. I haven’t watched that company in three years outside of a few matches here or there. Fun as it was at times, I don’t think it needed to be as long as it was. I popped hard for Haku at #29 and The Great Muta at #30. It came down to Liger and Muta against the Kingdom guys. They got rid of the geeks and it seemed to be just them left, but Kenny King came out of hiding and stole the match at 42:23. Way too long for what it was, but it had some fun bits. The finish was lame. [**½]
NEVER Openweight & ROH Television Championship: Jeff Cobb [c] vs. Will Ospreay [c] A stocky boy against a lanky boy. I’m all for Cobb in this as I like him and strongly dislike Ospreay. Cobb started this by running right through him. Love it. Ospreay got his ass kicked for a good chunk of this, so I enjoyed it. His selling was off at points, though. Cobb looked great throughout and Will had flashes. He almost dropped Cobb on his head with a Spanish Fly. Wild thing to attempt. The Oscutter spot near the end was dope. Cobb blocked it and threw him into the corner, only for Ospreay to pop back out and hit it for a great near fall. Cobb hit a massive Tour of the Islands off the middle rope and added another to win in 12:53. A very good match. Ospreay had some good spots, Cobb was great, and the final few minutes ruled. [***¾]
Dalton Castle w/ The Boys vs. Rush I used Japanese commentary for this show to avoid Ian Riccaboni and they still made me listen to him at points. He called this a HUGE international match. Castle has fallen so hard. Rush attacked quickly, hit him with a corner dropkick and won in 0:17. Quick squash to get Rush more over. Nobody came to see this anyway so it’s fine. [NR]
Post-match, Castle beat up the Boys.
ROH Women of Honor Championship: Mayu Iwatani [c] vs. Kelly Klein According to commentary, this is a 2-2 series. Although I think the division is just these two and Mandy Leon. The crowd didn’t care at all about this. Honestly, it was hard for me to pay attention because Bret Hart just got attacked during the Hall of Fame and I had to check out what happened. Damn shame. We can’t have nice things. Klein won in 10:41. From what I saw, it wasn’t very good. [*½]
Cary Silkin embraced Klein and congratulated her. Then, the Beautiful People came out like this was TNA. Mandy Leon came out to seemingly make the save, but instead joined them. They painted Klein with lipstick and are apparently known as The Allure. The crowd didn’t like this.
New York City Street Fight: Bully Ray vs. Flip Gordon This show hit a huge rough patch. Bully Ray just beat up some dude rapping. He was scheduled to face Juice Robinson but Juice was attacked earlier in the show. His replacement? Flip Gordon. Terrible. Bully had his buddies hit the ring and then Mark Haskins and Juice Robinson come out making this a six man tag.
New York City Street Fight: Bully Ray, Shane Taylor and Silas Young vs. Flip Gordon, Juice Robinson and Mark Haskins Like the previous match, the crowd didn’t seem to care for this. The ROH portion of this show has been ROUGH. They used a bunch of weapons as you’d expect. Flip fired up as he demanded they all hit him with a kendo stick harder and harder. I still didn’t care. I don’t even want to write more about it. The crowd sat on their hands for most of it. Life Blood won in a very long 15:00 if you include the stuff before Juice and co. came out. ROH is sucking the life out of this show. [*]
IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship: Taiji Ishimori [c] vs. Bandido vs. Dragon Lee These guys should theoretically save this show. Right off the bat, it was a bunch of wild action. What you expect from these three. Maybe it’s because I’m not as invested in NJPW angles right now, but this felt kind of hollow. I had no connection. Still, don’t let that deter you. This was a fun match. Lots of big spots and fast paced action from three of the quickest and most agile wrestlers around. Bandido may have stole the whole show with a double flipping fall away slam off the middle rope. It was insanity. These are ballsy dudes. Surprisingly, Dragon Lee picked up the win with Desnucadora in 8:57. A hell of a sprint. Lee pinned Bandido, meaning Ishimori is open to a rematch. Lots of fun in this one. [***½]
IWGP & ROH Tag Team Championships: Brody King & PCO [c] vs. The Guerrillas of Destiny [c] vs. The Briscoes vs. EVIL & SANADA I really dig the team of PCO and Brody King. Haven’t seen much of them, but they seem fun. PCO got a way over the top entrance with an electric chair. This was a wild clusterf*** involving a bunch of moving parts. At times, it was a giant mess. At other times, it was fun. PCO took an insane double powerbomb bump to the outside, popped up like he was reborn, and then died again. As expected, the Guerrillas picked up the win with a tandem powerbomb spot in the corner at 9:53. Sorry for the lack of detail. I grabbed snacks and ate during this one so I wasn’t typing too much. [**¾]
Toru Yano showed up and stole the IWGP Tag Titles. Then, off camera, Enzo Amore and Big Cass jumped the guardrail and attacked the Briscoes. I shit you not. TV did not acknowledge this at all, but ROH retweeted stuff about it so their worked shoot was clearly a work.
RevPro British Heavyweight Championship: Zack Sabre Jr. [c] w/ TAKA Michinoku vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi Sabre beat Tanahashi in the G1 27 (****¼) and New Japan Cup 18 (****½). Tanahashi beat him in an IC Title match (***¾) and the New Japan Cup this year (****¼). This was way different from everything else on the show in a good way. It had a slow burn but never felt like time was being wasted. Sabre stretched the hell out of Tanahashi and the ace sold it like a champ. I loved the spot where he couldn’t skin the cat the way he normally would. They traded pin attempts and offense down the stretch and it was all fluid and very well done. In the end, Sabre pulled Tanahashi into one of his brutal submissions and added leverage on an extra limb to make him tap out in 15:14. That was very good pro wrestling. Two pros just having a great wrestling match. No nonsense. Quality stuff all around and the current MOTN. I do think the crowd was kind of dead for this, probably still reacting to the confusion of the Enzo stuff. Way to kill the mood for Tana’s first MSG match. [****]
IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Tetsuya Naito [c] vs. Kota Ibushi Literally my two favorite NJPW guys. I’ve seen them wrestle several times. Ibushi won in the New Japan Cup 2015 (****), G1 28 (****¼), and New Japan Cup this year (****½), while Naito won their G1 27 meeting (****¾). Naito took forever to get his suit off because that’s the kind of guy Naito is. Within minutes, these guys were dropping each other on their heads. It’s the usual Ibushi/Naito stuff. Their chemistry is almost unmatched. Everything they did came off looking great and honestly pretty dangerous. The pace picked up to an insane level down the stretch because these guys are wild. Of course, Naito’s Destino wasn’t enough to earn the win. That move is such a waste at this point. Anyway, the closing stretch was great and saw Ibushi win the title with Kamigoye in 20:53. The usual great match from these two. Not a mark on their best work, but one hell of a bout. New MOTN. [****¼]
ROH Championship Ladder Match: Jay Lethal [c] vs. Marty Scurll vs. Matt Taven The ROH portion of this show has sucked, so let’s see if these guys can save it. The show was already long and these guys decided to drag this one out. If you thought this show was paced well, you better not complain about WrestleMania. This match was a whole lot of nothing. They set up spots that just took forever and never had the kind of payoff I was hoping for. At times, I had no idea why a third person was involved. I’m not writing a ton here because there wasn’t a lot that happened. It was the worst kind of ladder match. Jay Lethal took a wild bump that looked absolutely brutal. He’s a trooper. Then, it all led to Matt Taven winning the title in an absurdly long 29:35. Why? Other than a few spots, I didn’t really like any of this. [**]
IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Jay White [c] w / Gedo vs. Kazuchika Okada White beat Okada in the G1 (***¾) and at Wrestle Kingdom (****). Okada is supposed on this redemption arc but the only bad things to happen since he lost the title was that he toyed around with balloons and lost to White & Tana. Other than that, he won most of his G1 matches, showed off his thigh meat, and won the New Japan Cup. Anyway, this was classic Okada formula. In other words, the first 15 minutes were a bunch of nothing and it didn’t mean a thing. I do like that it meant Okada was confident again and he could wrestle HIS match against the champion. Of course, it picked up late because that’s what Okada does. I’m just over this whole setup. The best parts were White avoiding the Rainmaker by sitting down and the Rainmaker kickout because the crowd was really pulling for Okada, making for a good reaction. As always, Okada won after the Rainmakers/counters/hold on/Rainmaker stuff in a long 32:33. This had no business going this long. Especially when you can cut out the first 17 minutes and miss nothing. Technically, it’s a good match but it’s super hollow and overly long. [***]
Booking wise, we’re just back to the status quo. It’s like when Gedo put the title on Naito and had him drop it right back to Okada in two months back in 2016. This is literally the same thing and it was the worst of the THREE Okada redemption arcs they’ve run since 2012.
Overall: 5/10. This was about half a good show. I thought Ospreay/Cobb, the Jr. Title, the British Title, and the IC Title all ranged from very good to great. The main event was a disappointment and everything ROH put on was a steaming hot mess. What a terrible wrestling promotion. If NJPW wants to do anything big in the US again, they need to avoid ROH like the plague. Their section of the how was good even with the lackluster finish.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,895
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Apr 7, 2019 11:04:36 GMT -5
If New Japan returns next year, they're doing it without ROH.
They don't need them to sell out MSG
|
|
Convoy
El Dandy
Rusev admits to being a sex addict to large applause.
Posts: 7,527
|
Post by Convoy on Apr 7, 2019 11:58:22 GMT -5
Giving the show a rewatch on NJPWWORLD, and yeah, it's crazy muted from what I felt last night. Only up to the tag title match, but I distinctly remember the crowd going nuts for the Jr. 3-Way and PCO's entrance. It feels like they shot the footage, then had the commentators dub over it.
Strangely, I ended up liking Cobb/Ospreay even more on the rewatch. That was a fantastic opener.
|
|
adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
|
Post by adamclark52 on Apr 7, 2019 13:21:53 GMT -5
Ring of Honor shitting the bed doesn’t surprise me one bit. Their untelevised shows are always so much fun and their pay per views are always shit. They have to get away from trying to be more than a North-Eastern Indy. They’re gonna tout selling out Madison Square Garden but this show sold out on the strength of NJPWs name and the fact that people thought the Elite were going to be there. Damn you “card subject to change”.
I’m kinda glad because I like Ring of Honor being small. I like two hundred people in a small room. If I wanted lights and pajentry I’d watch the WWE. I want to watch wrestling and that’s what they do best. They failed at bigger arenas in Vegas last September and went back to small; they failed at doing a bigger in Toronto last November and are going back small next month and they flopped here. I hope they eventually learn their lesson. But bringing Enzo, Cass and the Beautiful People in is the shit that will turn me away.
Sad.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Apr 7, 2019 13:36:15 GMT -5
Some day-after thoughts from being there live:
-General arena observation: the crowd was molten fire for the vast majority of the show, but going by what I'm reading the English broadcast did a crappy job picking it up, which is really sad to hear. Only complaint from my seats is that the music in the arena felt kind of confined to the lower level, it was kind of muted in the 200s seats and up.
-I thought the Stardom tag match would be during the actual pre show, bummed I missed it, they deserved a fuller arena.
-MUTA! I was bummed to miss the House of Glory show because I wanted to see Muta in person, but holy shit that pop when he appeared! The Rumble itself was fun enough, nothing crazy; I see a lot of people really down on it but it was basically like a New Japan Rumble before a Wrestle Kingdom, just something fun to get a bunch of guys a chance to work MSG and get a pay day. Muta and Liger together was great, marked for Haku, and Kenny King got red misted for his shenanigans, crowd was up for it.
Reading that the music got changed on the broadcast, though, which sucks; everything was normal for us in the arena, but I guess international copyright laws got in the way.
-Ospreay/Cobb was a banger and an absolute must-see. Thrilled Cobb won, and can't wait to see him show up in Japan more often to defend the NEVER strap in NJPW.
-The WOH match really wasn't bad, but the crowd wasn't given much of a reason to care about what was happening, which I think speaks to ROH's larger problems with booking their women. Not like the crowd was put off by it or whatever, but the reactions just weren't there, and Iwatani deserves better than that, she's great.
The post-match angle wasn't really terrible as an idea on paper, but the execution was way too drawn out; they could've done the whole bit in just a minute or two but made it drag, instead.
-In terms of character arcs and angles, the Castle/Rush match served its purpose, and the crowd was legit shocked...but this wasn't the show to do that on. Castle's a former champ, Rush is a new draw who's likely destined for the ROH title, and this show was the promotion's coming out party and instead they did a Sheamus/Bryan.
-Bringing the guy who wrote the show's theme song was a poor choice, obviously; there was no way a crowd like this one wanted to pause the show for a music break, and it ended up making Bully Ray look like a face when he stopped the proceedings, since it looked like he was cutting off a WWE-style segment.
-The Street Fight had the same problem as the previous two things: good enough ideas on paper, but the execution was just too dragged out and they didn't give the crowd enough reason to care about the main ROH guys. I was fine with the idea of a hardcore 6-man match, and I like Haskins, Taylor, and Young just fine, but they kind of looked like goobers here, should've announced it as a 6-man from the start and let these guys get promo time and a chance to introduce themselves to a larger audience before the match actually began. Great pop for Flip, though, and the crowd definitely liked a lot of the match, but again, this match really should've been the one to only go about 10 minutes.
-I know some folks with the Jr. title match went longer...honestly, I loved it the way they did it. I saw at least two matches this weekend that rank very highly in my "all time favorite sub-ten minute matches" list, and this was one of them - they went pedal to the metal 99mph, absolutely sprinted, and everything still managed to look impactful, impressive, and you couldn't tear your eyes off it, no chance to slow down and breath. I'm not usually big on triple threats, but booked like this? Hell yes. Also, Bandido, good Lord he's good.
Have to say, though, a whole bunch of us started getting antsy and getting our hopes up that Hiromu would appear the second Dragon Lee won. Soon, soon...
-Tag title match was fun chaos, but yeah, this is the match that should've gotten the extra five minutes that the hardcore match got. I'm really impressed with Villain Enterprises; knew both guys were great, but they made for a really fun combination, though good GOD that back bump PCO took. That said, the lack of extra time meant that EVIL and SANADA didn't get to do a lot, which was my main letdown, but otherwise a fun brawl.
-But then, well...yeah. The crowd was caught off guard by the Enzo and Cass thing, lots of people buzzing and wondering if it was legit, but yeesh, is this really a match we want to see? And, again, aren't Bully and the Briscoes heels? The word is that the higher ups at ROH wanted this and the bookers didn't, which I believe, but the way they hurt the Yano angle with the tag belts likely isn't sitting well with New Japan. Plus, I heard word that the Briscoes weren't told this was a work at first; not sure I buy it, but if it turned out to be true that'd be the kind of shit to quit over. Clearly, somebody high up in ROH wanted to "generate buzz", and they got it, but I kept saying "I'm not sure they're going to like the kind of buzz this brings."
I heard Bully Ray on the XM wrestling show talk about how ROH had to evolve after this show to demonstrate their growth ability, and argued that the company needs to keep its core identity but be more willing to take "risks" and give a little more focus to "entertainment" style wrestling. Given the return of Velvet Sky and the way this angle went, it does have his fingerprints all over it.
-Tanahashi/Sabre...why can I say? If these two had started wrestling on the floor of the Pennsy's food hall because Zack wanted to eat vegan at Cinnamon Snail while Tana wanted a steak sandwich from Pat LaFrieda's I'd have still paid good money to see it. Zack is really over, and NJPW is still booking to his strengths.
-Ibushi/Naito was fire, and all there is to say is that anyone who hasn't seen it should take five minutes to read a little bit about their history together and with the IC belt, and then sit back and enjoy.
-The ladder match was pretty good, but yeah, I don't get not going with Marty here, even if you just take the belt off him soon because you figure he's heading to AEW. I'm not bashing Taven, either; dude came to work and I thought he did a great job, but like I said before this is your company's coming out party, go with the best crowd reaction/moment you can give your audience. Crowd definitely was into the match, but there's no denying that the hype set in HUGE when the big screen flashed the White vs. Okada graphic.
-Dat main event, tho.
Seriously, Okada is a megastar and Jay White keeps showing why they're right to have faith in him. Absolutely loved how different the match felt to what came before it, and the crowd was absolutely nuclear. I haven't seen such a huge crowd so united in anything as it was when popping for the Rainmaker and cheering along with the count afterward. I admit, when White kicked out of the first full-ripcord Rainmaker I stood up and just held my hat in shock. Interested in where this goes, though: the golden child stands tall at MSG, but there aren't a ton of realistic challengers lined up for Okada right now, so there may be even more weirdness on the horizon. For tonight, though, what a satisfying ending; for all the annoyance some people get at Okada winning again, the crowd was absolutely united in their hype for the moment.
So yeah, I see some folks bemoaning that the narrative after this show is about the poorer ROH content instead of the great moments, but I can safely say that there was a palpable buzz through the crowds as we left the building, folks were riding a high for sure. If that didn't come across on the broadcast then that's really, really too bad, because it was an absolutely awesome live experience.
|
|
Convoy
El Dandy
Rusev admits to being a sex addict to large applause.
Posts: 7,527
|
Post by Convoy on Apr 7, 2019 13:45:25 GMT -5
Well said, HMARK. I was in the lower bowl and we had a very similar experience.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Apr 7, 2019 14:22:23 GMT -5
This is a really surreal contrast between what happened on TV and what people got from the arena and that probably says more about ROH’s own problems then anything.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 14:58:38 GMT -5
Well said, HMARK. I was in the lower bowl and we had a very similar experience. Yeah, can vouch for the live experience as well, even though throughout the night, me and the girlfriend wanted to go all Dash Wilder on the snarks behind us thinking they were the funniest people in the arena riffing on everything. Yes, EVERYTHING.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Apr 7, 2019 15:52:37 GMT -5
Well said, HMARK. I was in the lower bowl and we had a very similar experience. Yeah, can vouch for the live experience as well, even though throughout the night, me and the girlfriend wanted to go all Dash Wilder on the snarks behind us thinking they were the funniest people in the arena riffing on everything. Yes, EVERYTHING. Ugh, had some of that happening next to me at wrestlecon during the Joey Ryan show, nearly ruined the whole first half of that card for us.
|
|
Convoy
El Dandy
Rusev admits to being a sex addict to large applause.
Posts: 7,527
|
Post by Convoy on Apr 7, 2019 16:00:18 GMT -5
In a rarity, we had nothing but good brothers and sisters around us. One guy in the row ahead stood up a few times, but no one was annoying. Plus, no one was smelly.
I honestly think that might be a first for me. Every other indie show I've ever attended had the worst fans around me - especially CHIKARA.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,895
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Apr 7, 2019 19:36:17 GMT -5
The G.O.D are now six time tag champs with their victory
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,895
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Apr 8, 2019 6:49:33 GMT -5
Hiromu was apparently at the show as he posted a photo of him at The Garden but did not get involved.
Reports say he's due back in August
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Apr 8, 2019 12:30:44 GMT -5
Hiromu was apparently at the show as he posted a photo of him at The Garden but did not get involved. Reports say he's due back in August I can't emphasize enough how badly the place was ready to come completely unglued if the time bomb clock started ticking after Dragon Lee won. But I get it: having him walk out now and then not return until August wouldn't go over too well.
|
|
Convoy
El Dandy
Rusev admits to being a sex addict to large applause.
Posts: 7,527
|
Post by Convoy on Apr 8, 2019 13:00:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I was hoping to see Hiromu, but if he can't perform in Best of the Super Juniors then he should just wait.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,895
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Apr 8, 2019 17:08:11 GMT -5
In a NSFW post match promo, The G.O.D made it clear they aren't happy with what happened. Tossing the ROH belts aside and leaving without them.
This could've been the finest hour for both promotions but only New Japan seemed to want it to be a success
|
|
King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,765
Member is Online
|
Post by King Devitt on Apr 8, 2019 17:42:42 GMT -5
I'm slowly catching up on my reviews! Here are some of my thoughts on this very very weird G1 Supercard show if anyone wants to check it out youtu.be/oGG0uFi0928back to work on the WM review I go!
|
|