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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 22, 2019 10:19:39 GMT -5
Forgive my ignorance on the matter, but what happened to make Dallas the way it presently is? The Von Erichs happened. Their downfall soured many people on wrestling in general. Watching a family disintegrate can do that. It wasn’t only the family, the whole f***ing roster ended in tragedy. Everything wccw touched turned into shit.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Apr 22, 2019 10:33:19 GMT -5
That’s sad, man.
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Post by Ganon83 on Apr 22, 2019 11:08:50 GMT -5
When they announced they were running Dallas of all places with an arena that massive, I was puzzled. I feel lack of advertising has been a major factor in the poor sales, but NJPW is just now establishing a presence in the US, and it’s going to take many more years for them to build up enough of a following here they could casually draw fans in the way WWE is able to. The MSG show was a net gain for them in terms of getting more new eyes (the ROH stuff aside) on their product, but New Japan’s still at a cult level of popularity compared to WWE. Honestly, they probably never will get to the point where they can draw regularly draw 5,000-10,000 without a big star Americans latch on to. Russo's infamous comments about American fans not giving a shit about Mexican or Japanese wrestlers is of course wrong, but if we take away the individual aspect and instead look at it from a promotion standpoint, he'd be right unless those promotions have an American draw. Omega was big before Jericho, but the Jericho match shot him and by association the Bucks to the moon as far as drawing in the states. If Jericho doesn't show up to NJPW, no way does All In happen and neither does the MSG show. Japanese culture just doesn't translate as well to other countries as American does globally from a mainstream standpoint.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 22, 2019 12:08:35 GMT -5
When they announced they were running Dallas of all places with an arena that massive, I was puzzled. I feel lack of advertising has been a major factor in the poor sales, but NJPW is just now establishing a presence in the US, and it’s going to take many more years for them to build up enough of a following here they could casually draw fans in the way WWE is able to. The MSG show was a net gain for them in terms of getting more new eyes (the ROH stuff aside) on their product, but New Japan’s still at a cult level of popularity compared to WWE. Honestly, they probably never will get to the point where they can draw regularly draw 5,000-10,000 without a big star Americans latch on to. Russo's infamous comments about American fans not giving a shit about Mexican or Japanese wrestlers is of course wrong, but if we take away the individual aspect and instead look at it from a promotion standpoint, he'd be right unless those promotions have an American draw. Omega was big before Jericho, but the Jericho match shot him and by association the Bucks to the moon as far as drawing in the states. If Jericho doesn't show up to NJPW, no way does All In happen and neither does the MSG show. Japanese culture just doesn't translate as well to other countries as American does globally from a mainstream standpoint. ROH drew good houses with NOAH stars, New Japan drew well in New York and California. It’s Dallas, Dallas it’s cursed. Fritz Von Erich prostituted and sold it’s soul.
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Post by corndog on Apr 22, 2019 12:11:49 GMT -5
When they announced they were running Dallas of all places with an arena that massive, I was puzzled. I feel lack of advertising has been a major factor in the poor sales, but NJPW is just now establishing a presence in the US, and it’s going to take many more years for them to build up enough of a following here they could casually draw fans in the way WWE is able to. The MSG show was a net gain for them in terms of getting more new eyes (the ROH stuff aside) on their product, but New Japan’s still at a cult level of popularity compared to WWE. Honestly, they probably never will get to the point where they can draw regularly draw 5,000-10,000 without a big star Americans latch on to. Russo's infamous comments about American fans not giving a shit about Mexican or Japanese wrestlers is of course wrong, but if we take away the individual aspect and instead look at it from a promotion standpoint, he'd be right unless those promotions have an American draw. Omega was big before Jericho, but the Jericho match shot him and by association the Bucks to the moon as far as drawing in the states. If Jericho doesn't show up to NJPW, no way does All In happen and neither does the MSG show. Japanese culture just doesn't translate as well to other countries as American does globally from a mainstream standpoint. This isn't true at all, look at Dragonball Z and Pokemon. But I doubt New Japan ever becomes anywhere close to WWE in the states. At the current moment I would say they are the 2nd most popular promotion in the states behind WWE, but it's a very distant 2nd. AEW has an opportunity to close the gap and become a legit 2 like WCW or JCP before it folded. I do however think New Japan with their LA Dojo and bringing over some veterans could make a touring brand that does fairly well for itself, to where they could regularly draw 1,000 to 2,000 people and then have bigger shows in the 8,000 to 10,000 range, but it's going to take time. Dallas is just a terrible market for wrestling and people are too committed to other big shows to travel.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 22, 2019 13:44:08 GMT -5
Regarding Dallas, while the downfall of World Class and the Von Erichs is a huge part of the issue, it only accounts for part of it. Those names and the toxicity they left behind don't mean crap to the 25-year olds who moved here in 2000 when they were a child. So there's definitely other elements.
Dallas is weird in ways. Long as I've lived here, it's never been terribly enthusiastic about any sort of big events outside of "actual" sports. I attended an Ozzfest here once where one of the "mid-carders" on the main stage threatened to stop their show and leave if the crowd just kept sitting there like zombies. The 'Cons never seem as epic as those on the coasts. Comic and toy shops are around but not terribly plentiful.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 22, 2019 18:40:25 GMT -5
Heaven needed a njpw sold out show!
f*** Glen Goza. What an assclown, he’s part of the reason Dallas isn’t fun.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Apr 22, 2019 18:50:45 GMT -5
This is a broad statement, but Texas always seems like it's iffy for wrestling in general. Which is strange considering how many big stars came out of Texas.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Apr 22, 2019 18:52:46 GMT -5
This is a broad statement, but Texas always seems like it's iffy for wrestling in general. Which is strange considering how many big stars came out of Texas. Texas is so big I'm not sure that applies to the whole state. Dallas is not alone though. Just ask the folks at WrestleCircus in Austin about their venue issues.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 22, 2019 19:21:40 GMT -5
Regarding Dallas, while the downfall of World Class and the Von Erichs is a huge part of the issue, it only accounts for part of it. Those names and the toxicity they left behind don't mean crap to the 25-year olds who moved here in 2000 when they were a child. So there's definitely other elements. Dallas is weird in ways. Long as I've lived here, it's never been terribly enthusiastic about any sort of big events outside of "actual" sports. I attended an Ozzfest here once where one of the "mid-carders" on the main stage threatened to stop their show and leave if the crowd just kept sitting there like zombies. The 'Cons never seem as epic as those on the coasts. Comic and toy shops are around but not terribly plentiful. A-Kon has been doing well in Dallas for a long time, but then it's far from just a Dallas thing and gets tens of thousands of people from all over the country. IIRC it's one of the biggest anime cons after Anime Expo in Los Angeles. Might even be #2 this year after Anime Matsuri in Houston has seen its share of scumminess and controversy.
Back to the wrestling, yeah, I think this is a clusterf*** of bad decisions and poor timing.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 22, 2019 19:27:13 GMT -5
Regarding Dallas, while the downfall of World Class and the Von Erichs is a huge part of the issue, it only accounts for part of it. Those names and the toxicity they left behind don't mean crap to the 25-year olds who moved here in 2000 when they were a child. So there's definitely other elements. Dallas is weird in ways. Long as I've lived here, it's never been terribly enthusiastic about any sort of big events outside of "actual" sports. I attended an Ozzfest here once where one of the "mid-carders" on the main stage threatened to stop their show and leave if the crowd just kept sitting there like zombies. The 'Cons never seem as epic as those on the coasts. Comic and toy shops are around but not terribly plentiful. A-Kon has been doing well in Dallas for a long time, but then it's far from just a Dallas thing and gets tens of thousands of people from all over the country. IIRC it's one of the biggest anime cons after Anime Expo in Los Angeles. Might even be #2 this year after Anime Matsuri in Houston has seen its share of scumminess and controversy. Back to the wrestling, yeah, I think this is a clusterf*** of bad decisions and poor timing.
Now that one, I'll give you. The anime/manga fanbase in Dallas is really, really strong.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 22, 2019 19:31:33 GMT -5
Regarding Dallas, while the downfall of World Class and the Von Erichs is a huge part of the issue, it only accounts for part of it. Those names and the toxicity they left behind don't mean crap to the 25-year olds who moved here in 2000 when they were a child. So there's definitely other elements. Dallas is weird in ways. Long as I've lived here, it's never been terribly enthusiastic about any sort of big events outside of "actual" sports. I attended an Ozzfest here once where one of the "mid-carders" on the main stage threatened to stop their show and leave if the crowd just kept sitting there like zombies. The 'Cons never seem as epic as those on the coasts. Comic and toy shops are around but not terribly plentiful. A-Kon has been doing well in Dallas for a long time, but then it's far from just a Dallas thing and gets tens of thousands of people from all over the country. IIRC it's one of the biggest anime cons after Anime Expo in Los Angeles. Might even be #2 this year after Anime Matsuri in Houston has seen its share of scumminess and controversy. Back to the wrestling, yeah, I think this is a clusterf*** of bad decisions and poor timing.
God, Anime Matsuri is a dumpster fire. Anything you hear about the promoter or the people under him is not only probably true, it's likely an understatement.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 22, 2019 23:12:44 GMT -5
How do you explain the over 100,000 at Wrestlemania 32 in Dallas? Even if it wasn't quite that number in real life, it's still the highest drawing pro wrestling event on US soil.
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Post by eJm on Apr 22, 2019 23:15:21 GMT -5
How do you explain the over 100,000 at Wrestlemania 32 in Dallas? Even if it wasn't quite that number in real life, it's still the highest drawing pro wrestling event on US soil. It’s WrestleMania. You could put that thing in Antartica and arctic survival equipment sales would rise for the months before the show. They’d also promote the hell out of it which clearly NJPW aren’t doing compared to the London Copper Box show.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 22, 2019 23:59:48 GMT -5
How do you explain the over 100,000 at Wrestlemania 32 in Dallas? Even if it wasn't quite that number in real life, it's still the highest drawing pro wrestling event on US soil. It’s WrestleMania. You could put that thing in Antartica and arctic survival equipment sales would rise for the months before the show. They’d also promote the hell out of it which clearly NJPW aren’t doing compared to the London Copper Box show. Right - WM is an established brand that draws internationally, the company's home base is the United States, they market like mad, and outside of maybe the Rumble it is THE destination wrestling card on WWE's calendar that people will drop big money to fly around to be at. Even non-fans in the surrounding area might still be drawn to it due to its status as a large-scale media event. NJPW is a foreign company with a strong but still niche following stateside, "G1" isn't an established brand outside Japan, they clearly haven't put enough into advertising this thing, and they've already run their personal Mania-sized card with G1 Supercard that people were willing to fly in for/spend big money on.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2019 1:53:03 GMT -5
How do you explain the over 100,000 at Wrestlemania 32 in Dallas? Even if it wasn't quite that number in real life, it's still the highest drawing pro wrestling event on US soil. As I've said multiple times already, WWE is the only thing Dallas has been willing to latch on to, though after many many years of trying first.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2019 1:57:54 GMT -5
How do you explain the over 100,000 at Wrestlemania 32 in Dallas? Even if it wasn't quite that number in real life, it's still the highest drawing pro wrestling event on US soil. As I've said multiple times already, WWE is the only thing Dallas has been willing to latch on to, though after many many years of trying first. Yep, plus people will fly in for 'Mania from all over. If this had been promoted better, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would travel for it, but it's not long enough after another big show as it is and plenty of people aren't going to double dip in that short of a span, and they also wanted way too much for tickets.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 23, 2019 1:59:27 GMT -5
Wrestlemania isn't just a run of the mill show. It's THE wrestling show and you have people from all over the world flocking to wherever its held to go there. WWE puts a year's worth of hype into the spectacle of Mania and it's almost becomes Super Bowl-esque in how it's treated in its host city. Compare that to an NJPW show in a city not exactly known for a strong local wrestling fanbase that was barely advertised and in a saturated part of the year and it's night and day,
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2019 2:00:30 GMT -5
As I've said multiple times already, WWE is the only thing Dallas has been willing to latch on to, though after many many years of trying first. Yep, plus people will fly in for 'Mania from all over. If this had been promoted better, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would travel for it, but it's not long enough after another big show as it is and plenty of people aren't going to double dip in that short of a span, and they also wanted way too much for tickets. Right, and without that large fly-in crowd, there isn't enough local support - for whatever reasons - to carry it.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2019 3:52:29 GMT -5
This is a broad statement, but Texas always seems like it's iffy for wrestling in general. Which is strange considering how many big stars came out of Texas. At one time, Texas was thriving as far as wrestling, but it was fractured. Houston, Dallas, Amarillo, San Antonio were all going independent of one another, Tri-State/Mid-South was getting some East Texas business, and there were border town lucha shows. Then it all sort of fizzled out. And then came WWF. I noted the Dallas number earlier, but Vince had a horrendous time penetrating the Texas market as a whole. The Texas shows of the first decade of his expansion into it are some of the worst-drawing cards in WWE history, some of them drawing literally a 100 or so people. Here's a thread I did a couple years back detailing WWE's 1980s Texas cards: officialfan.proboards.com/thread/563801/wwfs-rough-foray-texas-1984
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