Has Ishii Been The Best Underrated Wrestler?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Has Ishii been the best underrated wrestler these last few years

I know Omega was calling himself the best bout machine but damn that felt more appropriate for Ishii who is a f***ing horse 

Too bad they'd never move him up to IC level because he is the ultimate gatekeeper and you know when you beat him you had to go through hell to do so  

[funakifan88]

Yes

[Deleted]

I don’t think he’s underrated. I think most people who know his work know him as one of the best in the world, without question.

What’s so great about Ishii is that he’s so many peoples best opponent. Taichi, Goto, and I’d even argue Ibushi had their best matches with him.

[Ultimo Gallos]

Ishii is one of the best in NJPW.

[ANuclearError]

Jun 29, 2019 13:25:42 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

I don’t think he’s underrated. I think most people who know his work know him as one of the best in the world, without question.

What’s so great about Ishii is that he’s so many peoples best opponent. Taichi, Goto, and I’d even argue Ibushi had their best matches with him.

I think it's more along the lines of "underrated by the bookers".

I think his fanbase is stronger in the west than it is Japan, not to say he isn't over in Japan. The poll I posted in another thread had him between Liger & Suzuki in the lower-teens, but I think an equivalent poll for NJPW's western audience would have him challenging for the top 5.

[Mozenrath]

Jun 29, 2019 14:50:39 GMT -5 ANuclearError said:

Jun 29, 2019 13:25:42 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

I don’t think he’s underrated. I think most people who know his work know him as one of the best in the world, without question.

What’s so great about Ishii is that he’s so many peoples best opponent. Taichi, Goto, and I’d even argue Ibushi had their best matches with him.

I think it's more along the lines of "underrated by the bookers".

I think his fanbase is stronger in the west than it is Japan, not to say he isn't over in Japan. The poll I posted in another thread had him between Liger & Suzuki in the lower-teens, but I think an equivalent poll for NJPW's western audience would have him challenging for the top 5.

Yeah, he seems to be really loved by a lot of Western fans. I wonder if his promos just aren't that strong, or if not being a pretty dude hurts him with a lot of NJPW's fanbase or something. (Which isn't me dismissing NJPW fans by any means, but they do tend to really like the good looking guys, which was a big part of why Okada got the push that he did, or why Ibushi was on NJPW's radar so much)

[AwamoriRock]

I think it actually goes the other way to be honest.

[Raskovnik]

I think Ishii is properly rated by the promotion and a tad overrated by fans. I love the guy regardless but I'm perfectly content with his position on the card and his role in the company. Goto is exactly who I have in mind when I think of underrated by both the promotion and fans, but I'm a diehard Goto fan.

[Mozenrath]

Jun 30, 2019 2:08:28 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

I think it actually goes the other way to be honest.

What do you mean? Sorry, been a long day, so I am not following.

[AwamoriRock]

Jun 30, 2019 2:25:54 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jun 30, 2019 2:08:28 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

I think it actually goes the other way to be honest.

What do you mean? Sorry, been a long day, so I am not following.

No worries, I’m not exactly the most articulate guy ever.

My opinion is that if we’re pigeoning Ishii in between the words underrated and overrated, I lean toward the latter. I think he’s under appreciated and under used for sure, but I’ve always seen him praised super highly. I think he’d main event in Noah, ajpw, ddt, bjw, etc, but the reasons he falls short are also why he stands out if that makes sense? I think there’s an Ishii in many other promotions.

He’s a fantastic wrestler and had one of the best matches ever with Shibata. I just think he’s stuck in a bad spot.

[Mozenrath]

Jun 30, 2019 4:30:24 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

Jun 30, 2019 2:25:54 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

What do you mean? Sorry, been a long day, so I am not following.

No worries, I’m not exactly the most articulate guy ever.

My opinion is that if we’re pigeoning Ishii in between the words underrated and overrated, I lean toward the latter. I think he’s under appreciated and under used for sure, but I’ve always seen him praised super highly. I think he’d main event in Noah, ajpw, ddt, bjw, etc, but the reasons he falls short are also why he stands out if that makes sense? I think there’s an Ishii in many other promotions.

He’s a fantastic wrestler and had one of the best matches ever with Shibata. I just think he’s stuck in a bad spot.

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. I do wonder if that's the case, if fans appreciate him more because he is presented strongly, but not headlining shows a bunch or something like that, kinda like a character actor being loved, but if they were used as a leading man all the time, they'd be less appreciated for it.

[AwamoriRock]

Jun 30, 2019 4:35:38 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jun 30, 2019 4:30:24 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

No worries, I’m not exactly the most articulate guy ever.

My opinion is that if we’re pigeoning Ishii in between the words underrated and overrated, I lean toward the latter. I think he’s under appreciated and under used for sure, but I’ve always seen him praised super highly. I think he’d main event in Noah, ajpw, ddt, bjw, etc, but the reasons he falls short are also why he stands out if that makes sense? I think there’s an Ishii in many other promotions.

He’s a fantastic wrestler and had one of the best matches ever with Shibata. I just think he’s stuck in a bad spot.

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. I do wonder if that's the case, if fans appreciate him more because he is presented strongly, but not headlining shows a bunch or something like that, kinda like a character actor being loved, but if they were used as a leading man all the time, they'd be less appreciated for it.

Don’t wanna be anecdotal but most Japanese fans I know love him. I think if ever won the IC you’d hear a gigantic pop

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

Ishii’s easily one of my favorite wrestlers today. I don’t think he’s right type to be the “face of NJPW” the way Tanahashi and Okada are, but he can deliver match of the night with them and a wide range of people whenever he wants to.

I’d give him a decent run with the IC belt at one point, because he’d damn sure keep that belt credible.

[Bad Moon]

I love Ishii and I totally understand why he's booked the way he is. To me he's the closest contemporary equivalent to what Roddy Piper and Jake Roberts were in the 80s. It would be a waste to put a belt on him because as he is right now NJPW can literally put him against anyone and are guaranteed to get a hot feud with phenomenal matches out of him. He's far more valuable as a utility player than he would be as a champion, because you can just stick someone with Ishii and get him over instantly.

[Crappler El 0 M]

No. I agree with how New Japan has slotted him over the past few years. I agree with slotting Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, and Omega ahead of him, yet still utilizing Ishii as one of the top stars in the promotion who can main event shows. He's just not THE top star of the promotion. Not everyone can be the absolute top guy of a promotion. Ishii has been slotted just under that spot, which feels right to me.

As for how he's rated, he's rating very strongly by most of the major voices who talk about wrestling.

When I think of terms like underrated, I think of people who don't get a lot of buzz or attention like Arisa Nakajima, a woman from a smaller promotion in Japan or Mistico (current, not the former Sin Cara) who gets overshadowed by his brothers.

[MrElijah]

He's gonna be, a Japanese Arn Anderson or Mr. Perfect, I wanna say. Great wrestler who's that MidCard anchor that holds it together.