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Post by Psy on Sept 28, 2019 9:21:47 GMT -5
I almost want to see Dragon Lee just rename himself "Dragonly." That's exactly what I thought when I first heard the news.... that or Lee Dragon. ...maybe Amazon will give them their own wrestling show now. |
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Post by timelimitdraw on Sept 28, 2019 9:29:20 GMT -5
Well, this is a blind side. I doubt either guy is going to be hurting for work. Like, Rush is ROH champion now, so even if CMLL squeezes ROH, they would be unlikely to drop him. Lee, same deal with NJPW. I don't see them dropping him, but if they do, he's going to be able to go just about wherever. The big question mark for me is where Rush goes from here. He signed with ROH and backed out of his MLW dates because CMLL pressured him do so and, if I remember correctly, it was only a one-year deal that ends either at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. If that's the case, I expect him to be fielding offers from every major promotion (except CMLL) when his deal expires, but it also once again leaves ROH putting their main title on someone whose contract is about to expire. |
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Post by lildude8218 on Sept 28, 2019 9:45:19 GMT -5
Ring of Honor World Champion The Rush Experience
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Sept 28, 2019 9:51:46 GMT -5
CMLL runs their big anniversary show the same night as Rush wins the ROH title on one of their big shows. You’d think CMLL would be happy for him or the publicity they’d get from that but instead they fire him. Along with Dragon Lee, one of the standout junior heavyweights that’s been winning titles all over the world. I never thought there was a lucha equivalent to TNA but CMLL might be it.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 28, 2019 9:53:31 GMT -5
Yeah I have wondered about CMLL after Paco Alonso died and this doesn't sound like a particularly great move. I don't know a ton about what's going on in Mexico but does this sound like an especially well run company right now?
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 28, 2019 10:20:57 GMT -5
Think there was every chance RUSH would be leaving CMLL soon, regardless; the guy's got lots of potential US paydays on the near horizon, starting now with ROH but once that contract's up a bidding war is likely.
Dragon Lee is more of a shock, though, really strange to do. NJPW will definitely keep him around, they love the guy and he loves being there, and I'm sure there'll be a bidding war for him, too, but still that's just so strange to see.
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on Sept 28, 2019 10:28:45 GMT -5
Luchablog is reported that Lee was set for the Super Jr. Tag League in New Japan alongside Soberano, but now things are up in the air.
New Japan loves Lee, and Lee loves New Japan, but the CMLL/NJPW relationship is likely the priority over everything else.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Sept 28, 2019 10:47:48 GMT -5
And just like that CMLL lost the potential of putting on the biggest match in Mexico. They spent so long slow burning to it and now LA Park Vs. Rush: Mask Vs. Hair is going to happen in some other place, and make them a ton of money, and CMLL is going to be left in the cold. I'm starting to think CMLL Isn't very bright. Maybe that match is just cursed. MLW spent a ton of time and money building up Rush vs LA Park late last year only for Rush to leave MLW early this year thus making all the time and money MLW spent to promote that match a complete waste. |
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Sept 28, 2019 10:52:51 GMT -5
CMLL runs their big anniversary show the same night as Rush wins the ROH title on one of their big shows. You’d think CMLL would be happy for him or the publicity they’d get from that but instead they fire him. Along with Dragon Lee, one of the standout junior heavyweights that’s been winning titles all over the world. I never thought there was a lucha equivalent to TNA but CMLL might be it. I've seen people compare AAA to TNA for a couple years now due to AAA's shady business practices. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Sept 28, 2019 10:53:17 GMT -5
And just like that CMLL lost the potential of putting on the biggest match in Mexico. They spent so long slow burning to it and now LA Park Vs. Rush: Mask Vs. Hair is going to happen in some other place, and make them a ton of money, and CMLL is going to be left in the cold. I'm starting to think CMLL Isn't very bright. Maybe that match is just cursed. MLW spent a ton of time and money building up Rush vs LA Park late last year only for Rush to leave MLW early this year thus making all the time and money MLW spent to promote that match a complete waste. Apparently pulling out of that match wasn't Rush's call, ROH pulled him out of all other US bookings when he signed which Rush apparently didn't appreciate. Also Rush retweeted a tweet about LA Park Vs. Rush at Triplemania XXVIII. So with Konnan tweeting to Rush and Lee, and with Rush's ROH contract expiring in January 2020... |
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Sept 28, 2019 11:04:02 GMT -5
Maybe that match is just cursed. MLW spent a ton of time and money building up Rush vs LA Park late last year only for Rush to leave MLW early this year thus making all the time and money MLW spent to promote that match a complete waste. Apparently pulling out of that match wasn't Rush's call, ROH pulled him out of all other US bookings when he signed which Rush apparently didn't appreciate. Also Rush retweeted a tweet about LA Park Vs. Rush at Triplemania XXVIII. So with Konnan tweeting to Rush and Lee, and with Rush's ROH contract expiring in January 2020... I understand Rush being upset about being pulled from that match but what the hell did he expect realistically? ROH was running a show at MSG that weekend. You think you're going to be able to compete on a competitor's show the night before during WrestleMania weekend? Hell no. If it was a company without a cable deal than maybe but there was no way ROH was realistically going to let him go through with that match after he signed with them. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 28, 2019 11:18:52 GMT -5
So Dr. Lucha held an "emergency podcast" on this situation, notes here - www.reddit.com/r/njpw/comments/dag9iq/notes_from_emergency_podcast_with_dr_lucha_on_the/The short version appears to be this: -RUSH was quitting CMLL, so the company fired him, instead. Word is that RUSH is committing to ROH, at least for now (obviously subject to change once his contract's up), and wants it to be his focus, especially now that he's World Champion. -CMLL is frustrated: some in current management feel the way Paco did when he was alive, that doing business with American promotions sucks because it just about always ends in the US promotion signing away one or more big Mexican names and then neglecting the partnership. This seems to be how they view RUSH to ROH, so the CMLL-ROH partnership is on shaky ground. -ROH, for their part, feels like they got what they wanted out of the situation, and aren't sweating potentially having less access to CMLL talent (a view I'd be less cavalier about, were I them). -NJPW isn't happy about this since they don't want anything complicating their booking Dragon Lee. As mentioned before they love booking Lee and he loves working with them, and they know there's another money Lee vs. Hiromu match down the road they can do. By the sound of things, NJPW is willing to risk the CMLL relationship if it means not interruptions in using Lee. The guy who's the point man coordinating the NJPW/ROH/CMLL alliance might be in hot water in Mexico soon, though. -This seems to be in part because CMLL hasn't done as much training as they once did for NJPW on the excursion front, with it being noted how neither Shota nor Narita are getting Mexico excursions at the moment. More than that, however, is that NJPW has all the leverage in this situation; they'll be perfectly alright if they don't run the Fantasticamania tour next winter, but CMLL talent LOVES that tour, as apparently some of the guys make their best money of the year doing that tour just based on merch sales and exposure, let alone the actual tour pay. It's even said that many CMLL guys will turn down contracts from bigger companies just to be able to do that tour, so if NJPW were to say "Eh, fine, we just won't do it then", then CMLL faces a potential exodus of talent, which would hurt all the more given how many main eventers they've now lost. -Through it all, though, CMLL remains profitable and financially stable, so it isn't likely going anywhere. That said, there appears to be clear frustration backstage and in the office and people agitating for some changes to be made, so stay tuned. |
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Post by Cyno on Sept 28, 2019 12:46:05 GMT -5
I think the most fascinating thing in all this is seeing some fraying in the NJPW and CMLL relationship, especially if New Japan is willing to hurt it to continue using Dragon Lee. Thought they were thick as thieves. I also never gave thought that Narita and Shota going to the UK and US for excursion instead of Mexico could be seen as a slight against CMLL and more New Japan trying to strengthen its footholds in new areas.
Some interesting times ahead.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 28, 2019 14:30:04 GMT -5
I think the most fascinating thing in all this is seeing some fraying in the NJPW and CMLL relationship, especially if New Japan is willing to hurt it to continue using Dragon Lee. Thought they were thick as thieves. I also never gave thought that Narita and Shota going to the UK and US for excursion instead of Mexico could be seen as a slight against CMLL and more New Japan trying to strengthen its footholds in new areas. Some interesting times ahead. Just my personal opinion, I'm more inclined to think that NJPW sending guys to RevPro and to the LA Dojo for excursion is more for the reason you say; the UK remains an emerging market, not a mature one (well, re-matured, I suppose), to take a stab at growing in, and obviously their designs for US growth remain. But still, it does stick out how they haven't used ROH or CMLL as much for excursions lately, so it does at least warrant some questions why and if it has anything to do with their views on either company's management at the present moment. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 28, 2019 14:34:24 GMT -5
I think the most fascinating thing in all this is seeing some fraying in the NJPW and CMLL relationship, especially if New Japan is willing to hurt it to continue using Dragon Lee. Thought they were thick as thieves. I also never gave thought that Narita and Shota going to the UK and US for excursion instead of Mexico could be seen as a slight against CMLL and more New Japan trying to strengthen its footholds in new areas. Some interesting times ahead. Just my personal opinion, I'm more inclined to think that NJPW sending guys to RevPro and to the LA Dojo for excursion is more for the reason you say; the UK remains an emerging market, not a mature one (well, re-matured, I suppose), to take a stab at growing in, and obviously their designs for US growth remain. But still, it does stick out how they haven't used ROH or CMLL as much for excursions lately, so it does at least warrant some questions why and if it has anything to do with their views on either company's management at the present moment. Right. It could be as simple as just not thinking their emerging Young Lions aren't a fit for those particular places to mature, but still, it's enough to make one wonder. Guess we'll see whenever the next batch are ready. |
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Post by ANuclearError on Sept 28, 2019 14:50:11 GMT -5
UK excursions are still a bit of an unknown for Young Lions though right? Oka seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth as far as I can tell.
If I were MCW (I think they're NJPW's Australian parter right?), I'd be putting out a feeler or two to about excursions.
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Post by chrom on Sept 28, 2019 15:10:43 GMT -5
UK excursions are still a bit of an unknown for Young Lions though right? Oka seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth as far as I can tell. If I were MCW (I think they're NJPW's Australian parter right?), I'd be putting out a feeler or two to about excursions. That may happen since New Japan's doing shows in Australia now.
Oka's vanished who knows where, Kawato has finally been found, turns out he had to go back to Japan for treatment as he had fallen seriously ill.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 10:47:40 GMT -5
UK excursions are still a bit of an unknown for Young Lions though right? Oka seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth as far as I can tell. If I were MCW (I think they're NJPW's Australian parter right?), I'd be putting out a feeler or two to about excursions. That may happen since New Japan's doing shows in Australia now. Oka's vanished who knows where, Kawato has finally been found, turns out he had to go back to Japan for treatment as he had fallen seriously ill.
Shit, do we know if Kawato’s ok? |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 29, 2019 11:10:53 GMT -5
The idea New Japan holds all the cards in their relationship is an interesting one, but it does help put CMLL in a pretty bad position; they can rock the boat on this partnership and risk alienating ROH and New Japan, but it sounds like alienation might be what people are pushing for if they wanted to keep Dragon Lee out of BOLA and were suspicious of the Rush-ROH situation. The landscape is shifting and pretty much everyone is looking for connections and deals to help strenghten their own stock; CMLL pulling out without much advantage or ground to do better on their own would make for an interesting development. Losing two stars and some major business partners would be quite the move one makes by choice, though. Right now the whole association within that sphere is stronger as a united front to at least some degree each; trying to pull out of that would be a massive play I don't think could pay off in any way other than reducing headaches.
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on Sept 29, 2019 12:19:00 GMT -5
Speaking on the NJPW/CMLL portion of this situation, the first crack in their relationship was pretty much ignored at the time. Depending on who you want to believe, both sides clashed over Kawato's treatment during his time in Mexico for different reasons.
New Japan felt that CMLL wasn't giving Kawato the same level of training and spotlight provided to previous juniors sent on excursion (ex. Hiromu, SHO & YOH). CMLL complained to the Japanese that Kawato was not taking his training seriously, and even wanted to send him back to Japan early to be rid of him. From a third-party perspective, Kawato didn't improve at all in Mexico. Which is unfortunate, since his potential was super high during his last half-year in Japan.
Whatever the case, New Japan choosing to send their next junior prospect in Narita to the LA Dojo instead of CMLL feels like the fallout from the Kawato situation.
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