Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 16:33:19 GMT -5
Going public and becoming PG.
That’s what’s changed it.
He has so many people to answer to now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 16:54:33 GMT -5
Every spoken word sounds like something Vince would say. 'I want a Championship opportunity' Like who says that? Even if there was ONE character that spoke like that, everyone else wouldn't. 'I want a title shot' 'I want a shot at the Championship' I'm going to take that belt from you' They sound more like something someone would say. Vince has an odd way of speaking and you can always pick it up when commentators and wrestlers speak. Yup, not a single character on the show aside from maybe Brock cuts a promo like a normal person. It’s one thing if you’re playing an over the top character but most of them are just portrayed as normal athletes who are good wrestlers so guys and girls in their 20 and 30’s talking like Vince sounds absolutely insane. I don’t know when this change happened exactly, maybe after Benoit and PG, but it has only gotten worse.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,731
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Post by nisidhe on Nov 17, 2019 17:07:19 GMT -5
I think it began with the Monday Night Wars. But I also think there were numerous contributors to WWE's evolution in production and creative.
Yes, there was the ship-jumping to WCW for a few of them. However, I think Vince pushed out as many as left on their own. Monsoon was gone not long after Heenan left; most of the rest of the old guard were not seen again after WWE won the war. These were the guys who could run interference for the talent and could explain to Vince why this character needed this development or why a particular feud made sense. By the time he had Russo and Dunn and Cornette sitting in on production meetings, there is no mention of Vince's old guys, except for Pat Patterson who, I think, would have made things very difficult for Vince were he let go. After those departures, there was really nobody who could tell Vince outright, "No," and now there is nobody in the back willing even to try to moderate Vince's decision-making. Triple H may have been able to protect some of the bigger stars from NXT on the main roster _to an extent_, but clearly there's been some surrender there as well.
I think that WWE from here on out is going to sink or swim under Vince pretty much alone (except for maybe Paul Heyman, but even he has some clear issues with his booking style.) If the locker-room morale continues to sink, if they can't get anyone new to sign, and they lose any big names in the next couple years either to AEW or NJPW or wherever, Vince will be forced by someone (likely Fox) to hand over creative control to someone else. Bear in mind, as well, that XFL is going to be a thing in less than four months' time - the networks can't have someone half-assing the product they paid for.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 17, 2019 17:19:06 GMT -5
The other problem is, of course, that the scripted portions of promos don't sound like anything an actual human being would say in conversation. This. Holy shit this. I've talked about this before. I PBP roleplay offsite. It's something I've done for a pretty large portion of my life. What WWE keeps failing to realize is that character writing, especially dialogue, is not a cut and paste process. It's one that is incredibly involved. When writing for a specific character, you absolutely need to keep that character in mind at all times. How they would react, what they would say, specific phrasing and language, ETC. I can't count the times I've written something, looked at it, and had to alter parts to better suit the character I'm writing for. You can't just slap verbiage down on a page and expect everyone to interpret it in the exact same way, because that's just not going to happen. If the writers would familiarize themselves with the characters they're writing for and personalize it a bit instead of going all "one size fits all", it'd be better for everyone. This is exactly the problem. The problem isn’t scripting, its that the writers either won’t or aren’t allowed to work with the wrestlers themselves to get it into their words. It’s not a difficult process, write what you want said and then sit down with the wrestler to go over it, get their input to make it sound more natural. This should be happening for every promo. That’s how Jericho handled things in WWE, they gave him a script and he would pull out what’s important and go put it in his words. Believe Punk was the same.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 17, 2019 18:05:13 GMT -5
I'm wondering when it became a thing that announcers must use the "Owen voice" for every single over-the-top spot, without exception. While watching Moxley/Omega at AEW Full Gear, I couldn't help but thinking how much it would have suffered if, instead of Jim Ross losing his mind, we had Michael Cole solemnly muttering, "this is... frankly, this is... just... hard to watch." "Owen voice" is such a weird thing for people to say, because if you watch the tape, the announcers didn't even use "Owen voice" after Owen fell! They sounded like what they were: shocked people who were trying to act professional at a chaotic time.
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Bub (BLM)
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Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 17, 2019 20:21:03 GMT -5
Every spoken word sounds like something Vince would say. 'I want a Championship opportunity' Like who says that? Even if there was ONE character that spoke like that, everyone else wouldn't. 'I want a title shot' 'I want a shot at the Championship' I'm going to take that belt from you' They sound more like something someone would say. Vince has an odd way of speaking and you can always pick it up when commentators and wrestlers speak. Yup, not a single character on the show aside from maybe Brock cuts a promo like a normal person. It’s one thing if you’re playing an over the top character but most of them are just portrayed as normal athletes who are good wrestlers so guys and girls in their 20 and 30’s talking like Vince sounds absolutely insane. I don’t know when this change happened exactly, maybe after Benoit and PG, but it has only gotten worse. The best is when he has wrestlers born in 1990 bitching about millennials.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Nov 17, 2019 20:58:05 GMT -5
I keep forgetting though, why did they go to PG again? Was their pressure from shareholders?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 17, 2019 21:07:48 GMT -5
I keep forgetting though, why did they go to PG again? Was their pressure from shareholders? It was likely them trying to clean up their image after the Benoit thing. Also, I believe it was also something written into their toy deal with Mattel that their main programming had to be PG.
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Sam Punk
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Post by Sam Punk on Nov 17, 2019 21:18:16 GMT -5
I keep forgetting though, why did they go to PG again? Was their pressure from shareholders? They did it so Linda could run for governor.
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Dean-o
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Post by Dean-o on Nov 17, 2019 22:06:48 GMT -5
I’d say it’s a mix of 3 events...
1. The Benoit tragedy 2. The move to HD 3. Linda’s political campaign
Since they moved to HD, the product has slowly changed to a wrestling event that just happens to be broadcast on TV, to a TV show that is filmed in front of a live studio audience.
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Post by Ryushinku on Nov 18, 2019 4:50:16 GMT -5
Like, the nature of Raw as a scripted on the seat of their pants thing is nothing new; it's really not what I consider a good situation, but when you get headlines about how Raw was still being written as the show started broadcast and people are appalling I just think, yeah, that's how it's virtually always been. Not good, like I say, but no special indication of chaos, they've always thrown it together in a mild panic with Vince changing his mind a million times.
But all the rest, the micromanaging of the announcers and the promo scripting and so on? Yeah, that's definitely been an escalation since WWE became the market leader champ and the move to PG.
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