|
|
Post by romanstylesiii on Nov 17, 2019 1:14:47 GMT -5
Once upon a time, the WWE had a legit "anything can happen" feel. It was even their catchphrase. Mean Gene, Gorilla, Bobby Heenan, JR, Lawler all were amazing broadcasters whose emotions told a great story and were very entertaining and were allowed to show their personalities.
Promos used to be from the heart and came from extensions of a wrestlers' personality. Now the wrestlers may as well be actors.
Now, the WWE is predictable, every broadcaster sounds identical and is void of personality.
I get there were a lot of errors in production during the time period I mentioned, but at the same time it made the product more fun to watch. Now the WWE is a well oiled machine when it comes to production and rarely has mistakes, but it just lacks any personality.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 1:33:06 GMT -5
I'm wondering when it became a thing that announcers must use the "Owen voice" for every single over-the-top spot, without exception.
While watching Moxley/Omega at AEW Full Gear, I couldn't help but thinking how much it would have suffered if, instead of Jim Ross losing his mind, we had Michael Cole solemnly muttering, "this is... frankly, this is... just... hard to watch."
|
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Nov 17, 2019 1:40:50 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with scripted promos in theory. Problem is that a lot of wrestlers aren't great actors. So it comes across as they're being read straight off cue cards. I also don't know if wrestlers have dress rehearsals for their promos in addition to their matches. I'd hope so. The other problem is, of course, that the scripted portions of promos don't sound like anything an actual human being would say in conversation.
I've heard the "Vince yelling into people's headsets" stories from announcers going back at least to the mid 00's.
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,747
|
Post by Chiral on Nov 17, 2019 1:43:38 GMT -5
Going by Moxley's stuff on the Jericho podcast, Vince's ultra control over WWE started in 2002 and got worse and worse each year. I wonder if "beating" WCW gave Vince the idea he was responsible for all of WWE's success, and gradually year over year built the sterile WWE we see today, taking more and more control over the show and pulling it farther and farther away from being an anything can happen show to the thing it is today.
I also think the house show booking style for TV plays a huge part in this too, around I wanna say 2012 things on TV started to matter less and less, and gradually morphed into televised house shows, where you get a set format of matches and segments that stay the same for months on end as they sloooowly morph into the next card that gets regularly repeated.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Nov 17, 2019 2:15:46 GMT -5
It came in stages and didn't happen all at once, with various factors contributing over time to what we have now.
I fully believe the first stage occurred with JJ Dillon and then Russo & Ferrara ditching him in the middle of the night to sign with WCW. That's where he started to completely lose his trust in his BTS team; prior to that, he listened to guys like them, Patterson, Prichard, etc. Afterward, not so much.
Stage 2 was going public, but that wouldn't really become a true factor until we get to Stage 5.
Stage 3 was beating/buying WCW, giving him a massive confidence/ego boost and "proving" to him that his way truly worked.
Stage 4 was losing Austin and Rock in the ways he did, giving him the determination that the brand would always be the star in the future, not the individual players.
Stage 5 was going PG - this is where going public started to really effect things, as it brought in a different group of investors and shareholders that he had to answer to and by this point, he believed he was the only one capable of running anything anymore. At that point, the company was now a product to be merchandised far beyond it ever had been. Everything had to be fit into squares perfectly, nothing to rock the boat.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,123
Member is Online
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 17, 2019 2:49:10 GMT -5
It came in stages and didn't happen all at once, with various factors contributing over time to what we have now. I fully believe the first stage occurred with JJ Dillon and then Russo & Ferrara ditching him in the middle of the night to sign with WCW. That's where he started to completely lose his trust in his BTS team; prior to that, he listened to guys like them, Patterson, Prichard, etc. Afterward, not so much. Stage 2 was going public, but that wouldn't really become a true factor until we get to Stage 5. Stage 3 was beating/buying WCW, giving him a massive confidence/ego boost and "proving" to him that his way truly worked. Stage 4 was losing Austin and Rock in the ways he did, giving him the determination that the brand would always be the star in the future, not the individual players. Stage 5 was going PG - this is where going public started to really effect things, as it brought in a different group of investors and shareholders that he had to answer to and by this point, he believed he was the only one capable of running anything anymore. At that point, the company was now a product to be merchandised far beyond it ever had been. Everything had to be fit into squares perfectly, nothing to rock the boat. You could probably call losing Mean Gene Stage 0, where Vince began giving the production guys and presenters a much shorter leash, which played a part in guys like Mean Gene wanting out, unable to really do what they got hired to do. |
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Nov 17, 2019 3:35:03 GMT -5
It came in stages and didn't happen all at once, with various factors contributing over time to what we have now. I fully believe the first stage occurred with JJ Dillon and then Russo & Ferrara ditching him in the middle of the night to sign with WCW. That's where he started to completely lose his trust in his BTS team; prior to that, he listened to guys like them, Patterson, Prichard, etc. Afterward, not so much. Stage 2 was going public, but that wouldn't really become a true factor until we get to Stage 5. Stage 3 was beating/buying WCW, giving him a massive confidence/ego boost and "proving" to him that his way truly worked. Stage 4 was losing Austin and Rock in the ways he did, giving him the determination that the brand would always be the star in the future, not the individual players. Stage 5 was going PG - this is where going public started to really effect things, as it brought in a different group of investors and shareholders that he had to answer to and by this point, he believed he was the only one capable of running anything anymore. At that point, the company was now a product to be merchandised far beyond it ever had been. Everything had to be fit into squares perfectly, nothing to rock the boat. You could probably call losing Mean Gene Stage 0, where Vince began giving the production guys and presenters a much shorter leash, which played a part in guys like Mean Gene wanting out, unable to really do what they got hired to do. Oh, for sure that was a factor, and there's a number of other ones like it weaving in and out of the gradual transformation. Linda and the kids going in and out of the power structure, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 17, 2019 6:05:38 GMT -5
I do believe that going public likely played a really big role, though even then it took a bit to settle into this completely sterile form since some of the Monday Night War era talent had to be phased out first, since it seemed like some of them had a longer leash than newer talent did.
I've kind of wondered if there was a subconscious component to people not reacting well to Cena's rise to the top of the promotion: yeah, he had that initial "you can't wrestle" criticism on him and he seemed to represent the overall move toward a PG product, but he also seemed to represent the wave of talent that seemed to be entirely under Vince's thumb with regards to promos and characterization, along with the switch from JR to Cole as the lead man on commentary.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 17, 2019 10:25:55 GMT -5
It feels like Vince saw WCW's disintegration, where talent and announcers seemed thoroughly demoralised and thought, 'Wow, look at all those broken spirits! That's what I want!'
|
|
|
|
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Nov 17, 2019 11:47:23 GMT -5
I think it was the pg/linda political run that did it. Everything had to be micromanaged and flawless so that linda and the company looked clean with such a high profile at the time.
|
|
Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,707 
|
Post by Kalmia on Nov 17, 2019 13:20:42 GMT -5
This insistence on branding doesn't help, either. Nothing feels organic, it's all catchphrases and trademark moves. The WWE style has been highly defined so that it can be sold as a standard product and it's stifled creativity.
|
|
Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,126
|
Post by Rave on Nov 17, 2019 13:51:56 GMT -5
The other problem is, of course, that the scripted portions of promos don't sound like anything an actual human being would say in conversation. This. Holy shit this. I've talked about this before. I PBP roleplay offsite. It's something I've done for a pretty large portion of my life. What WWE keeps failing to realize is that character writing, especially dialogue, is not a cut and paste process. It's one that is incredibly involved. When writing for a specific character, you absolutely need to keep that character in mind at all times. How they would react, what they would say, specific phrasing and language, ETC. I can't count the times I've written something, looked at it, and had to alter parts to better suit the character I'm writing for. You can't just slap verbiage down on a page and expect everyone to interpret it in the exact same way, because that's just not going to happen. If the writers would familiarize themselves with the characters they're writing for and personalize it a bit instead of going all "one size fits all", it'd be better for everyone. |
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Nov 17, 2019 14:16:03 GMT -5
When he got the idea into his head that he was a big shot entertainment producer, and not a wrestling promoter.
|
|
|
|
Post by Feyrhausen on Nov 17, 2019 14:23:42 GMT -5
This insistence on branding doesn't help, either. Nothing feels organic, it's all catchphrases and trademark moves. The WWE style has been highly defined so that it can be sold as a standard product and it's stifled creativity. This. Nothing sounds natural or organic. All brand and hashtag. |
|
|
|
Post by Session Moth is over on Nov 17, 2019 14:30:30 GMT -5
Every spoken word sounds like something Vince would say.
'I want a Championship opportunity'
Like who says that? Even if there was ONE character that spoke like that, everyone else wouldn't.
'I want a title shot'
'I want a shot at the Championship'
I'm going to take that belt from you'
They sound more like something someone would say.
Vince has an odd way of speaking and you can always pick it up when commentators and wrestlers speak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 14:36:02 GMT -5
Around the time Vince started pushing that Raw was a variety show and not a wrestling program is when I started to really notice it. Every spoken word sounds like something Vince would say. 'I want a Championship opportunity' Like who says that? Even if there was ONE character that spoke like that, everyone else wouldn't. 'I want a title shot' 'I want a shot at the Championship' I'm going to take that belt from you' They sound more like something someone would say. Vince has an odd way of speaking and you can always pick it up when commentators and wrestlers speak. All the promos really do sounds like the same thoughts, just different voices delivering them. |
|
Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819 
|
Post by Pushed to the Moon on Nov 17, 2019 15:13:34 GMT -5
This insistence on branding doesn't help, either. Nothing feels organic, it's all catchphrases and trademark moves. The WWE style has been highly defined so that it can be sold as a standard product and it's stifled creativity. I saw a clip on Reddit the other day of AJ reversing a stomp into a styles clash and Cole shouted "The Beast Slayer looking to burn it down!" as it happened. I mean come on! |
|
rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
|
Post by rocket on Nov 17, 2019 15:20:29 GMT -5
This insistence on branding doesn't help, either. Nothing feels organic, it's all catchphrases and trademark moves. The WWE style has been highly defined so that it can be sold as a standard product and it's stifled creativity. This. Nothing sounds natural or organic. All brand and hashtag. Like how much do they pound you over the head with a wrestler's trademarked nickname? Such a turnoff. |
|
XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,564
|
Post by XIII on Nov 17, 2019 15:45:53 GMT -5
This. Nothing sounds natural or organic. All brand and hashtag. Like how much do they pound you over the head with a wrestler's trademarked nickname? Such a turnoff. The WWE Universe has taken to calling this thread the Wildcat. |
|
|
|
Post by romanstylesiii on Nov 17, 2019 16:20:50 GMT -5
Love the answers, specifically people bringing up the hyper branding WWE does. Never really thought about that in this context
|
|
