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Post by autisticgeordie on Nov 28, 2019 7:46:55 GMT -5
OK, I was an infant when the whole Monday Night Wars was going on, but I've gone back and rewatched some old WCW era stuff and, you know what, The Flock were a f***ing awesome faction, Raven, Saturn, Kidman and Sick Boy were all pretty damn good workers, Saturn is one of my picks for being the most underrated wrestler of all time.
I'm surprised how they weren't more of a tweener faction, a bit like LIJ are today because, much like Naito, Raven seemed like he'd really resonate with the disinfranchised youth that would watch wrestling; much like how Naito is giving a voice to a more rebellious side of Japanese society in 2019.
They were such a cool heel faction, you could put them in 2019 on NXT and they'd get over like rover and let's not forget that Raven had the second best DDT of all time, behind Jake Roberts.
Although, one thing confused me, why the f*** was Raven, this grungy, nihilistic cult leader of sorts billed from The Bowery? Isn't The Bowery the rich part of Manhattan?
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Nov 28, 2019 8:03:31 GMT -5
The Bowery for the longest time was essentially skid row in NYC where derelicts, sex workers, misfits, and addicts hung out. It wasn’t until the NYC revitalization during the 70s that it became what it is today.
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Post by Viking Hall on Nov 28, 2019 8:47:43 GMT -5
Ravens gimmick was a rich kid gone 'bad'.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 28, 2019 10:31:13 GMT -5
Raven was oddly well protected in WCW too. Granted, most of that was just keeping him away from the top stars, but that dude didn’t do a lot of clean jobs from what I remember. Plus, he somehow made the cover of Revenge with Hogan, Goldberg and Nash
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Nov 28, 2019 10:35:38 GMT -5
Raven's Nest= My favorite stable of all-time
Raven's Flock= Bleh.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Nov 28, 2019 11:34:32 GMT -5
I loved the group. I wish he got a push relative to his placement on Revenge's cover:  |
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Post by honsou on Nov 28, 2019 11:46:27 GMT -5
Raven was oddly well protected in WCW too. Granted, most of that was just keeping him away from the top stars, but that dude didn’t do a lot of clean jobs from what I remember. Plus, he somehow made the cover of Revenge with Hogan, Goldberg and Nash Raven feuds always felt like they took place in a different promotions where he was the top guy. It was an interesting dynamic |
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Nov 28, 2019 12:05:18 GMT -5
Definitely one of the best parts of that era in WCW, if my Nitro rewatches are anything to go by.
It was so different from everything else going on in WCW at the time, and it had a nice, definitive ending as well.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 28, 2019 12:09:51 GMT -5
I liked him a lot, and I think it's one of the better examples "give these weirdos stuff to do". I know Raven chose some of them specifically, but I forget who it was that he was stuck with, maybe Van Hammer?
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Nov 28, 2019 12:13:36 GMT -5
I liked him a lot, and I think it's one of the better examples "give these weirdos stuff to do". I know Raven chose some of them specifically, but I forget who it was that he was stuck with, maybe Van Hammer? It had to be Van Hammer, dude was just about the most useless wrestler ever. |
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Post by nickcave on Nov 28, 2019 12:20:05 GMT -5
It was an interesting idea for a stable, I didn't even mind that it mostly consisted of job guys because it was supposed to be a group of people who felt left behind and outcast by WCW. So having a bunch of lower card people in it worked. Much better than the J.O.B. Squad in WWF.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 28, 2019 12:21:41 GMT -5
I liked him a lot, and I think it's one of the better examples "give these weirdos stuff to do". I know Raven chose some of them specifically, but I forget who it was that he was stuck with, maybe Van Hammer? It had to be Van Hammer, dude was just about the most useless wrestler ever. I think his main issue was just that Van Hammer wasn't enough of a misfit to fit conceptually, and he had a preference for guys the audience wouldn't know as much, and Van Hammer had been around for a while by then, but yeah, Van Hammer's always been a goofball. Anyone who thinks Foley can't wrestle should watch their match and see him make Van Hammer look like he had any business being there, working around his shortcomings. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 28, 2019 12:43:23 GMT -5
Didn't he choose Horace to get in Hogan's good graces? Raven was a smart guy, moves like that and being pals with Hall and co are why he managed to go so long without ending up in a heatkilling squash match with the NWO. I loved the flock, even the weirder members like Horace and Hammer. Muscle who weren't actually particularly good, but they added variety.
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Post by Manute Bol on Nov 28, 2019 13:47:13 GMT -5
Although, one thing confused me, why the f*** was Raven, this grungy, nihilistic cult leader of sorts billed from The Bowery? Isn't The Bowery the rich part of Manhattan? The Bowery was known as a punk rock and hardcore mecca in the 70s and 80s. Was still cool and gritty in the 90s. |
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Post by autisticgeordie on Nov 28, 2019 13:50:33 GMT -5
Although, one thing confused me, why the f*** was Raven, this grungy, nihilistic cult leader of sorts billed from The Bowery? Isn't The Bowery the rich part of Manhattan? The Bowery was known as a punk rock and hardcore mecca in the 70s and 80s. Was still cool and gritty in the 90s. Ah, so when did it start getting gentrified? |
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 28, 2019 14:23:23 GMT -5
The Flock were awesome. A perfect example of how to take a bunch of lower card guys and do something good with them.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Nov 28, 2019 15:00:54 GMT -5
The Bowery was known as a punk rock and hardcore mecca in the 70s and 80s. Was still cool and gritty in the 90s. Ah, so when did it start getting gentrified? It’s been a slow trend but really started getting changed in the early 2000’s around the time that CBGB’s closed and has seen ridiculous development in recent years. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 28, 2019 16:39:12 GMT -5
It had to be Van Hammer, dude was just about the most useless wrestler ever. I think his main issue was just that Van Hammer wasn't enough of a misfit to fit conceptually, and he had a preference for guys the audience wouldn't know as much, and Van Hammer had been around for a while by then, but yeah, Van Hammer's always been a goofball. Anyone who thinks Foley can't wrestle should watch their match and see him make Van Hammer look like he had any business being there, working around his shortcomings. Also, Superbrawl 2, Hammer and Z-Man v Vinnie Vegas and Richard Morton, even considering that half of each team actually had talent, a SHOCKINGLY good match. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 17:15:48 GMT -5
Raven was the reason I started watching WCW. ECW was the only wrestling I watched, and my best friend who was a smark (which was much more rare at the time) told me the reason Tommy Dreamer finally beat him was because he was going to WCW, so I started watching Nitro.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 28, 2019 18:23:25 GMT -5
Thinking about it, the Flock managed to make me care about Scotty Riggs. Seriously, Scotty Riggs! Nitro really was firing on all cylinders when the Flock were a thing, and the faction gave us three solo midcard stars to boot, Saturn, Kidman and Kanyon. Not a bad return for a faction made from goobers and powerplant guys.
I would have thought Sickboy would have done better, but hey, at least his career gave us Katie Vick.
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