Ageism in wrestling.

[agent817]

So I have been thinking about this lately. Being that you have guys (or women, as Mickie James is 40) in their 40s still doing their thing, I don't know if age is really a factor in the wrestling world anymore. I mean R-Truth is doing his thing and he really does not look 47. Hell, Jericho is 49 and can still go. Hell, while 30s isn't really a big deal anymore, you would not guess that Finn Balor is currently 38 at first glance.

However, then I started thinking about how different things were 20 years ago. I remember the WWF made fun of WCW with how they had older guys like Hogan and Savage, and then later Piper and many others, calling it "Age in the Cage." It didn't help that people acted like the Legion of Doom were elderly in 1997, when Hawk had only turned 40 after they returned, while Animal was only 36 and didn't turn 37 until later that year. That's not even going into how there were ageist jokes about Bret Hart's age, who turned 40 that same year.

While I am aware of how some of the ageism still sort of exists with the "old" jokes about Mickie James, I don't think it's as bad as it was in the 1990s.

Does ageism still exist? I know that Hollywood and other forms of media have this ageist mentality, especially with how some people act like the age after 25 is considered "old." But with guys in their 30s around, as well as some older, I don't hear a lot of ageist jokes these days. I mean, sure, some jokes were made about Flair's age back in the day, but even when he was in his mid-to-late 50's, he showed that he could still go. But other than that, is it still prevalent? I mean it's not as bad as the jokes about older wrestlers in WCW, but I wonder if it's still a common thing in wrestling.

[Tiger Millionaire]

It does exist, but in my own lifetime of watching wrestling, the only time I ever saw it as an issue was with Vince and his obsession with age in the mid-late 90s. In fact, I've more often seen it the other way, where companies relied too heavy on older acts.

[Natural Born Farmer]

Old men like Flair and Hogan were presented as threats to much younger stars for a long, long time and it was a serious detriment to the respective products.

[Viking Hall]

Yeah, it was only really a thing briefly. Watch seventies and eighties wrestling and there will be loads of wrestlers in their forties and fifties.

[FinalGwen]

I think there's definitely elements of it, and it was a lot more transparent in the 90s when WWE were trying to create that contrast with their new generation.

But then there's the whole concept of TV age, as well as just relying on how much someone can still go? Nobody really complained when Ricky Steamboat put on his Mania match against Jericho and had a short run, and Jericho himself has defied the odds by constantly reinventing himself and continuing to put on great performances.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Depends on whether the older guys can still go. It's one thing for Chris Jericho to still be treated as a threat when he's 50 because he can still go as good as anyone. On the other hand it's ridiculous wonder anyone sell for elderly, broken down Hulk Hogan.

[Sam Punk]

It's a big deal with the non-wrestling talent. Somebody like Gene Okerlund would never get hired today.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Backlund was 45. They presented him as if he was 400. I used to think 45 was wicked old, but it’s creeping up on me...

[Tiger Millionaire]

I'm sure in Vince's mind, a big reason why the WWF was able to thrive in the 80s is because the WWF was hipper and wasn't beholden to older stars like Bockwinkle, Bruno, Dick the Bruiser, Harley Race ect.

[agent817]

Nov 28, 2019 14:52:54 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

I'm sure in Vince's mind, a big reason why the WWF was able to thrive in the 80s is because the WWF was hipper and wasn't beholden to older stars like Bockwinkle, Bruno, Dick the Bruiser, Harley Race ect.

Well, you mentioned Harley Race. He actually was in the WWF in the 1980s and he was in his 40s during that time. I doubt anything was mentioned about his age.

[J. Hova]

Nov 28, 2019 15:34:39 GMT -5 agent817 said:

Nov 28, 2019 14:52:54 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

I'm sure in Vince's mind, a big reason why the WWF was able to thrive in the 80s is because the WWF was hipper and wasn't beholden to older stars like Bockwinkle, Bruno, Dick the Bruiser, Harley Race ect.

Well, you mentioned Harley Race. He actually was in the WWF in the 1980s and he was in his 40s during that time. I doubt anything was mentioned about his age.

That's probably because Harley would have smacked the bejesus out of the person and put his Marlboro Red out on that person's forehead.

[J. Hova]

I mean, there is something to the "40 is the new 30" mentality. If you were to walk past AJ Styles, you would never guess that he's in his forties. I mean you look at Piper, Flair, etc. 20 years ago and look at AJ, Jericho, etc. today and there isn't even a comparison in ring work or schedule.

[Tiger Millionaire]

Nov 28, 2019 15:34:39 GMT -5 agent817 said:

Nov 28, 2019 14:52:54 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

I'm sure in Vince's mind, a big reason why the WWF was able to thrive in the 80s is because the WWF was hipper and wasn't beholden to older stars like Bockwinkle, Bruno, Dick the Bruiser, Harley Race ect.

Well, you mentioned Harley Race. He actually was in the WWF in the 1980s and he was in his 40s during that time. I doubt anything was mentioned about his age.

He was, but he wasn't a main event guy.

[Cyno]

The guys of today are also generally in a lot better health than they were 10-20 years ago at the same age range. So you do have guys well into their 40's or even 50's that can still go like Jericho or Minoru Suzuki. Hell, DDP is 63 years old and he's in fantastic shape.

[agent817]

Nov 28, 2019 16:24:06 GMT -5 Cyno said:

The guys of today are also generally in a lot better health than they were 10-20 years ago at the same age range. So you do have guys well into their 40's or even 50's that can still go like Jericho or Minoru Suzuki. Hell, DDP is 63 years old and he's in fantastic shape.

What's amazing is that if you check out the match with Masahiro Chono and Lou Thesz, even at 74, Thesz was able to keep up with Chono. Sure, he was retired years before that, but it was like he never left the ring if you watch it.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

It's applied to women and non wrestling in screen personnel more these days, JR got pushed out for his looks and the King looks like he does these days because he's desperately trying not to show his age. Women, well, we've seen how the WWE treat the older, but still attractive Mickie James, and how certain wrestling personalities talk about Sakura in AEW.

[Squirrel Master]

Nov 28, 2019 16:07:13 GMT -5 Tiger Millionaire said:

Nov 28, 2019 15:34:39 GMT -5 agent817 said:

Well, you mentioned Harley Race. He actually was in the WWF in the 1980s and he was in his 40s during that time. I doubt anything was mentioned about his age.

He was, but he wasn't a main event guy.

Hogan vs. Race was the main event of house shows all over the U.S.

[Garyspivey]

I think part of it too is that the product changed so quickly back then. Use LOD as an example, Look at the WWE product in 1991-1992 compare it to 1997, it is a night and day difference which is probably part of the reason they felt out of place. Now compare WWE 2009 to WWE 2019, there is not that huge leap in how the product looks compared to the mid-late 80s to mid-late 90s

[corndog]

Flair and Bret Hart had their best matches when they were 40. If a top notch wrestler can stay healthy to that point, they can put out some great work because they aren't physically too declined and they are at the point where they have a much better grasp on psychology than at 30. Savage was another one that put on some good matches in his 40s. Roberts probably would have been there as well if it wasn't for his substance abuse.

As far as now, the 90s were weird because WCW fully pushed their aging stars to the point it was holding better talent in their primes back. But WWF was acting like 40 was a death sentence to the point where Vince wouldn't even allow Savage to have full time programs. I think at this point we are in a nice middle ground. Also, getting to see more global wrestling, with places like Japan that have many aging wrestlers still working and the independents where we see insanity like the Rock N' Roll Express still able to go into their late 50s/early 60s, it's made age less of an issue. I definitely don't want to see it become WCW, where wrestlers in their mid to late 40s are controlling the main event, but I also think if they can still go at 50, let 'em.

[SmashTV]

I seem to recall that Savage was relegated to commentary in the early days of Raw as Vince didn’t think he had it in him. I think he was late 30s/early 40s at the time.