Post by HMARK Center on Dec 14, 2019 16:13:23 GMT -5
Ok, it's 2019 and nearfalls are all the rage in pro graps; sometimes they're masterful, other times they feel excessive. Plainly put: how do you feel about the use of nearfalls in modern wrestling, what are some you think are great examples of them working well, what are your limits where you think they're going too far, and do you sometimes have a personal justification for them when they happen given how much more common they are now than in the past? It does seem there's a lot of criticism about them lately, with even Johnny Gargano getting called out in some circles over it, so I guess it warrants some discussion.
On the one hand, I'm relatively accepting of kick outs from big moves: while I appreciate the psychology of some moves being "instant kills", I don't mind pushing the boundaries or challenging conventional thinking on certain aspects of wrestling psychology, either, so I don't think we always need to default to "signature spot = match over" or get upset when nearfalls follow a big spot; maybe you can build psychology not around a singular finisher spot, but a combination of moves and moments that make the difference. Plus, just thinking of how moves sometimes work in real life, there are times wrestlers are accidentally spiked for real by a move, yet are still able to maintain consciousness, move around, kick out, etc., and personally speaking I kind of enjoy moments where you get a "kicked out on instinct/doesn't know where they're at" nearfall. Plus, there's always room in my book for a well-done Fighting Spirit spot.
Example that always stuck out to me as a positive: the Kenny Omega vs. Hirooki Goto G1 Final match in 2016. Omega's got such mastery of a count's cadence that he can take things to seemingly the last millisecond, and I still remember nearly falling out of my seat from frayed nerves when he kicked out of Goto's Shouten Kai spot.
On the other hand...yeah, I think it gets spammed too much sometimes of high impact moves. There are matches that aren't meant to be main events, aren't meant to emotionally drain the crowd, yet if you're doing huge spot after huge spot and just having everything be a two-count, things run the risk of just running together. Again, I'm not one to argue that wrestling must subscribe to traditional psychology and storytelling, but things start getting a little rough when, say, you string together poisonranas and tornado DDTs and destroyers and not have any of them finish a match, even as some other wrestlers use some of those moves as actual finishers. It's not always the end of the world, but it can be numbing after awhile.
Examples of perpetrators on this front, for me at least, include a lot of MLW middleweight matches, and Impact to a lesser degree. I can buy the idea that smaller wrestlers can be more resilient against certain big moves than big guys can (e.g. less weight to have collapsing down on your neck, that kind of thing), but I've had a few too many moments watching Fusion or Impact where I kind of zone out from the overkill, and it's hard for the live crowd to keep responding when you overkill like that, too.
As for what I'd change, I think increased nearfalls are here to say, so I just want to see wrestlers kind of acknowledge that there are times when a big move should end things but doesn't, and adjust their in-ring storytelling to compensate. How about some more limbs/extremities under or on the ropes to break a pin spots, ala Okada/Omega II or Owens escaping Jericho? How about playing up some guys not being able to hook a leg or get a solid pin after a big move due to exhaustion more often, thus allowing a more likely kickout? Commentators need to be in on this, too, to get that psychology across. Or hell, how about more spots like Jay White kicking out of a big move by barely getting his shoulder up? Little wrinkles like that would then make it a bigger deal when someone kicks out of a finisher from a hooked leg pin or something.
So go on, share your favorite nearfalls, cite trends you don't like nowadays, and come up with ideas for freshening them up for the modern era. C'mooooon, it'll be fun.
On the one hand, I'm relatively accepting of kick outs from big moves: while I appreciate the psychology of some moves being "instant kills", I don't mind pushing the boundaries or challenging conventional thinking on certain aspects of wrestling psychology, either, so I don't think we always need to default to "signature spot = match over" or get upset when nearfalls follow a big spot; maybe you can build psychology not around a singular finisher spot, but a combination of moves and moments that make the difference. Plus, just thinking of how moves sometimes work in real life, there are times wrestlers are accidentally spiked for real by a move, yet are still able to maintain consciousness, move around, kick out, etc., and personally speaking I kind of enjoy moments where you get a "kicked out on instinct/doesn't know where they're at" nearfall. Plus, there's always room in my book for a well-done Fighting Spirit spot.
Example that always stuck out to me as a positive: the Kenny Omega vs. Hirooki Goto G1 Final match in 2016. Omega's got such mastery of a count's cadence that he can take things to seemingly the last millisecond, and I still remember nearly falling out of my seat from frayed nerves when he kicked out of Goto's Shouten Kai spot.
On the other hand...yeah, I think it gets spammed too much sometimes of high impact moves. There are matches that aren't meant to be main events, aren't meant to emotionally drain the crowd, yet if you're doing huge spot after huge spot and just having everything be a two-count, things run the risk of just running together. Again, I'm not one to argue that wrestling must subscribe to traditional psychology and storytelling, but things start getting a little rough when, say, you string together poisonranas and tornado DDTs and destroyers and not have any of them finish a match, even as some other wrestlers use some of those moves as actual finishers. It's not always the end of the world, but it can be numbing after awhile.
Examples of perpetrators on this front, for me at least, include a lot of MLW middleweight matches, and Impact to a lesser degree. I can buy the idea that smaller wrestlers can be more resilient against certain big moves than big guys can (e.g. less weight to have collapsing down on your neck, that kind of thing), but I've had a few too many moments watching Fusion or Impact where I kind of zone out from the overkill, and it's hard for the live crowd to keep responding when you overkill like that, too.
As for what I'd change, I think increased nearfalls are here to say, so I just want to see wrestlers kind of acknowledge that there are times when a big move should end things but doesn't, and adjust their in-ring storytelling to compensate. How about some more limbs/extremities under or on the ropes to break a pin spots, ala Okada/Omega II or Owens escaping Jericho? How about playing up some guys not being able to hook a leg or get a solid pin after a big move due to exhaustion more often, thus allowing a more likely kickout? Commentators need to be in on this, too, to get that psychology across. Or hell, how about more spots like Jay White kicking out of a big move by barely getting his shoulder up? Little wrinkles like that would then make it a bigger deal when someone kicks out of a finisher from a hooked leg pin or something.
So go on, share your favorite nearfalls, cite trends you don't like nowadays, and come up with ideas for freshening them up for the modern era. C'mooooon, it'll be fun.
