Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 1, 2020 0:09:49 GMT -5
Remember when Bryan losing in 18 seconds was the biggest robbery of WWE?
yeeeeh..
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Mar 1, 2020 0:13:48 GMT -5
The audience is already conditioned to see certain moves coming and expect certain things; throwing out the odd entertaining and short main event (if done right) can prevent the crowd from knowing the match is going to last at least twenty mins and disinvesting in the early moments.
Goldberg v Lesnar at Survivor Series was a genuine shock to me and very entertaining. Yet when it is done incorrectly - such as Goldberg v the Fiend or Lesnar v Ricochet - it is just nonsensical.
I think like most things it depends on the context.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 0:16:15 GMT -5
I generally almost always agree, but...
Counterpoint: Bret vs. Vince.
Sometimes, you just need to see a real bastard heel get thoroughly and utterly squashed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 0:21:37 GMT -5
Poor Ricochet doesn't get a mention even in this thread! e: Oh, he did. Somehow.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 1, 2020 0:21:47 GMT -5
Brock Goldberg was good
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 0:25:24 GMT -5
Was Undertaker scared of doing tombstones in Saudi Arabia after the whole Goldberg farce? Didn't he just chokeslam AJ and that was it. That's the face who once ran the place. > Now he's the face that mops the floor.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Mar 1, 2020 0:35:33 GMT -5
Remember when Bryan losing in 18 seconds was the biggest robbery of WWE? yeeeeh.. Are you implying it wasn't? Because it was, it pissed off fans so they hijacked shows and left them with no choice. WWe can pretend they had a "master plan" the whole time but leaked sheets for the original WM 30 show otherwise.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 1, 2020 0:38:52 GMT -5
Remember when Bryan losing in 18 seconds was the biggest robbery of WWE? yeeeeh.. Are you implying it wasn't? Because it was, it pissed off fans so they hijacked shows and left them with no choice. WWe can pretend they had a "master plan" the whole time but leaked sheets for the original WM 30 show otherwise. Oh no, it absolutely was.Just saying now that is a NORM for world titles.Shit is insane.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 1, 2020 2:55:40 GMT -5
You should have chosen a better OP title than this tbh. Your point is good, but a lot of matches have proven to be really good that go a short amount of time
No one is gonna argue Championship Squash matches are bad and hurt the prestigue and importance of the title and the person being squashed. But not every important short match is a "Squash" if it's played right.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Mar 1, 2020 3:27:55 GMT -5
My favorite short match was with Benoit beating Orlando Jordan for the u.s title in like 30 seconds... it had intensity and looked realistic enough to not make either guy look like crap.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 1, 2020 3:35:25 GMT -5
I get what you are saying but I have to disagree with this. As pointed out before Goldberg/Lesnar a few years ago at Mania was a fantastic sprint and not every title match or important match has to be a long built story.
What needs to go is the squash matches that you are referring to
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Post by cornettesracket on Mar 1, 2020 7:33:02 GMT -5
I think important matches(I define important matches as the top half of the card) can go less then ten if a good story is told but main events should get the most time but my bigger issue is EVERY match being of similar length. The opening match shouldn't be close to the main event in terms of time. I can't understand it at all. To quote macho man randy savage to the big show "less is more" sometimes.
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Post by eJm on Mar 1, 2020 8:18:26 GMT -5
Like others said, context does matter with this stuff. Goldberg/Lesnar just clicked in that regard because it utilized the strengths of both men and got people really into that.
Doing it with people who CAN go longer doesn’t make anyone look good unless you structure it really well.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 1, 2020 8:30:04 GMT -5
If you don’t have the kind of story with your match that needs 20, 25, 30 minutes to be told (and no, “How many finishers can I kick out of?” doesn’t count), then DON’T go that long.
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Post by cornettesracket on Mar 1, 2020 8:49:22 GMT -5
If you don’t have the kind of story with your match that needs 20, 25, 30 minutes to be told (and no, “How many finishers can I kick out of?” doesn’t count), then DON’T go that long. Exactly. If the story of the match can be told in ten minutes then do ten minutes. A match who's story is ten minutes shouldn't be stretched to twice it's length.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Mar 1, 2020 9:28:36 GMT -5
You should have chosen a better OP title than this tbh. Your point is good, but a lot of matches have proven to be really good that go a short amount of time No one is gonna argue Championship Squash matches are bad and hurt the prestigue and importance of the title and the person being squashed. But not every important short match is a "Squash" if it's played right. I'm going to reword it better. The recent insta death title matches got to me. Back to the thread at hand. I appreciate the great points made by others, here goes my take. The WWE title is supposed to be important, My view is a little more old school on it, I hate seeing as just a prop in a feud. This is the title with the long lineage and it's being held by a character you've spent quite a deal of time telling us can kick out of numerous finishers, chairs, ladders etc shots. An unkillable monster that some babyface will have to find a weakness for. Instead of building up a weakness for the fiend, for example, say a babyface knocks over his human head lamp in a match and suddenly he goes to a knee and then in your title match you can do it again only the babyface destroys it and now suddenly he isn't ultra powered. Is it a bit gimmicky? sure but so is the fiend character. I'm drawing a parallel to when OG taker had his urn messed with and suddenly wasn't unstoppable. What we got was, again finisher spam. Only this time it worked because of reasons. No build-up to why just 'Goldberg Strong'. Now bray is left looking like an ineffectual chump who was plucked from a Slipknot concert crowd and anything special about him is in the toilet. The funhouse segments now lose all importance. As for length, No going 20+ would have been bad and a drag. I agree, but you can get easily get 10 minutes out of simple f***ery and not even have a lock-up. Take Richochet Vs Lesnar, You can showcase his speed buy having him flip out of the germans Brock tries, Have him do a bunch of reversals and then you do Brock overpowering him, Take out Ricochets legs to convey the idea that now he doesn't have his advantage. This could apply to Kofi V Brock too.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Mar 1, 2020 9:51:14 GMT -5
I'm fine with shorter matches, I'd just wish they'd put a bit more creativity into them. It's normally just spamming finishers and then a pin.
Like with Goldberg, there were many other ways they could've booked that match to get him the W that would've hid his limitations. Especially with a supernatural character like The Fiend.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 1, 2020 10:03:46 GMT -5
One of my favorite and most memorable matches of all time is when Warrior squashed Honkey Tonk in like 30 seconds at SummerSlam for the IC belt.
That said it was a pretty special circumstance that felt right at the time and wouldn't have been as special is they were routine at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 10:05:00 GMT -5
It can work but it definitely shouldn’t be the norm like it is now in WWE.
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Milkman Norm
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Post by Milkman Norm on Mar 1, 2020 10:06:28 GMT -5
Hard pass on this. Sometimes guys, even champions if the circumstances call for it, are just there to get their asses kicked.
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