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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 29, 2020 14:37:49 GMT -5
Also worth noting that the Marvel purchase wasn't as much about the comics as it was about everything else. In a lot of ways the comics have taken on this loss leader role that exists around all the other things they can do with it. Comics have always proven strong on a multimedia level and they got in to save the company just as their movies were starting to take off. Cartoons for Saturday morning blocks and prime time TV series all serve their purposes. You can't do that with wrestling. Pro wrestling is just sort of universally pro wrestling and nothing else. Disney wants IPs they can do multiple things with, but WWE outside of its core form never has that staying power. It's just not as valuable a purchase for Disney to get weekly live programming and inherit all the other problems with the company.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 29, 2020 14:46:17 GMT -5
I just saw "Vince selling WWE" and didn't even read the rest to know it was bs. The only way he's leaving is if he's dragged pout of there.
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Post by eJm on Apr 29, 2020 14:56:25 GMT -5
Also worth noting that the Marvel purchase wasn't as much about the comics as it was about everything else. In a lot of ways the comics have taken on this loss leader role that exists around all the other things they can do with it. Comics have always proven strong on a multimedia level and they got in to save the company just as their movies were starting to take off. Cartoons for Saturday morning blocks and prime time TV series all serve their purposes. You can't do that with wrestling. Pro wrestling is just sort of universally pro wrestling and nothing else. Disney wants IPs they can do multiple things with, but WWE outside of its core form never has that staying power. It's just not as valuable a purchase for Disney to get weekly live programming and inherit all the other problems with the company. Even with the comics, they treat it sort of like NXT is supposed to be with WWE in theory. If anything really cool is developed there, they can put the writer and artist's names in the "Special Thanks to" credits, promote the fact it's based on a book and then sell more trades off of that. In terms of anything...someone could do a Southpaw Regional Wrestling movie...and that's kind of it.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 29, 2020 15:34:01 GMT -5
To be fair, they wouldn't be the first people to think Disney brought ALL of Fox including Sports and News. But regardless, yeah, it doesn't take 5 minutes to look up any Variety or Hollywood Reporter article on the subject. Also, as I said again and again and again, the PR nightmare would be extraordinary. Especially right now. The 1980s alone would make Disney's PR team quit. Who started these Rumors and possible Innuendos?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 16:02:52 GMT -5
Once upon a time, Marvel Comics was a shady business too. The f*** are you on about? I'm dying to hear this. And I really hope the only example isn't the creators' rights/royalties stuff. It's mostly how they treated their creators over the years. There's a book about it called Marvel : The Untold Story that gives a pretty unbiased story of the history of the company, both good and bad. For example, in addition to certain rights and royalties situations, there were instances of people screwing each other over, editors cancelling books that were selling okay because they didn't like the creators personally and stuff like that. Also, there was a LOT of open drug use in the Marvel offices back in the 70's, which they allowed because it caused the writers and artists to "be more creative."
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 29, 2020 16:07:44 GMT -5
The f*** are you on about? I'm dying to hear this. And I really hope the only example isn't the creators' rights/royalties stuff. It's mostly how they treated their creators over the years. There's a book about it called Marvel : The Untold Story that gives a pretty unbiased story of the history of the company, both good and bad. For example, in addition to certain rights and royalties situations, there were instances of people screwing each other over, editors cancelling books that were selling okay because they didn't like the creators personally and stuff like that. Also, there was a LOT of open drug use in the Marvel offices back in the 70's, which they allowed because it caused the writers and artists to "be more creative." Okay, so yeah, not even on the same level of discussion. Rapists, murderers, blatant racism, on-the-job deaths ain't the same as dropping acid to get better ideas.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 29, 2020 16:09:59 GMT -5
I've always found the valuation of the WWE to be fascinating in its own way, because I'm really not sure what WWE owns outside of some tape libraries that are honestly worth anything. The WWE is literally nothing without the talent on TV every week, and while the WWE may own names and such, they don't own the actual performer. Let's say that Disney or whoever bought the WWE today, and Roman Reigns leaves tomorrow. Sure, Disney can keep Joe from being Roman Reigns somewhere else, but they can't keep him from basically being the same character just under a different name for AEW, New Japan, or whatever. That's what's always killed me about the valuation of the WWE. They have a "brand", but there's so little propping up the value of that brand that I'm waiting for the bubble to pop any minute. Your post bears repeating because a) it's an extraordinarily strong point and b) it's a point largely lost on the company itself. WWE has spent the last ten years trying to put the brand over as being the main attraction when its "superstars" have been the ones responsible for selling the live event tickets, the merch, the PPV buys, the TV ratings. It's similar to MLB or the NBA or the NHL or NFL in that it is merely an "overseer" for the individual teams whose fans buy the tickets and the merch and who subscribe to the cable networks covering the action of these teams (or individuals.) WWE forgot that it had built-in permanence _so long as they were able to put over individual stars and let them shine on their own_, just like the leagues. Those stars may come and go; hell, _teams_ may come and go, but the leagues, the governing bodies endure, quietly building its fortunes, content to let the Jordans and Beckhams and Gretzkys and the Lakers and the Habs or Leafs or whoever bring the star power and the fans. What WWE did, however, was to focus on building the brand to outside interests - essentially acting as its own asset strippers - while burying its top-drawing talent either through overmanagement or burial. So now, WWE finds itself in the unenviable and untenable position of having made its fortune on a bill of goods. It needs to rethink its entire branding strategy of the past decade, try to renegotiate with its talent to keep them on an increasingly flimsy promise of actual stardom, and to manage both during a global crisis not seen in nearly three generations. And, most trying of all, when its CEO is proving himself utterly inadequate to the task.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 16:19:54 GMT -5
It's mostly how they treated their creators over the years. There's a book about it called Marvel : The Untold Story that gives a pretty unbiased story of the history of the company, both good and bad. For example, in addition to certain rights and royalties situations, there were instances of people screwing each other over, editors cancelling books that were selling okay because they didn't like the creators personally and stuff like that. Also, there was a LOT of open drug use in the Marvel offices back in the 70's, which they allowed because it caused the writers and artists to "be more creative." Okay, so yeah, not even on the same level of discussion. Rapists, murderers, blatant racism, on-the-job deaths ain't the same as dropping acid to get better ideas. I never at all implied that it was shady to the same level as WWE. I was just saying that a company having a shady history probably isn't going to stop Disney from buying it. Also Disney themselves have made racist movies and put penises on Little Mermaid tape covers. I'm not saying Disney should or would buy WWE. I have no opinion on the matter. I'm just saying that the shady shit Vince has done over the years wouldn't stop a huge corporation from buying the company. They can always clean it up and say that these things are in the past.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 16:30:04 GMT -5
I've always found the valuation of the WWE to be fascinating in its own way, because I'm really not sure what WWE owns outside of some tape libraries that are honestly worth anything. The WWE is literally nothing without the talent on TV every week, and while the WWE may own names and such, they don't own the actual performer. Let's say that Disney or whoever bought the WWE today, and Roman Reigns leaves tomorrow. Sure, Disney can keep Joe from being Roman Reigns somewhere else, but they can't keep him from basically being the same character just under a different name for AEW, New Japan, or whatever. That's what's always killed me about the valuation of the WWE. They have a "brand", but there's so little propping up the value of that brand that I'm waiting for the bubble to pop any minute. Your post bears repeating because a) it's an extraordinarily strong point and b) it's a point largely lost on the company itself. WWE has spent the last ten years trying to put the brand over as being the main attraction when its "superstars" have been the ones responsible for selling the live event tickets, the merch, the PPV buys, the TV ratings. It's similar to MLB or the NBA or the NHL or NFL in that it is merely an "overseer" for the individual teams whose fans buy the tickets and the merch and who subscribe to the cable networks covering the action of these teams (or individuals.) WWE forgot that it had built-in permanence _so long as they were able to put over individual stars and let them shine on their own_, just like the leagues. Those stars may come and go; hell, _teams_ may come and go, but the leagues, the governing bodies endure, quietly building its fortunes, content to let the Jordans and Beckhams and Gretzkys and the Lakers and the Habs or Leafs or whoever bring the star power and the fans. What WWE did, however, was to focus on building the brand to outside interests - essentially acting as its own asset strippers - while burying its top-drawing talent either through overmanagement or burial. So now, WWE finds itself in the unenviable and untenable position of having made its fortune on a bill of goods. It needs to rethink its entire branding strategy of the past decade, try to renegotiate with its talent to keep them on an increasingly flimsy promise of actual stardom, and to manage both during a global crisis not seen in nearly three generations. And, most trying of all, when its CEO is proving himself utterly inadequate to the task. Exactly, and not to hijack the threat further, but once upon a time, the wrestling business itself was built on "Hey, watch WCW/WWE/ECW/Whatever, because we've got stars you love!" Sure, the company had to help get the talent over because nobody gets over in a vacuum, but the brand itself was just a way of saying "We have who you want to see." With the E, it's as if they're hell-bent on making sure the brand itself wins over all and is putting the cart before the horse. Vince so wants the WWE to be an entertainment company in and of itself, just like Fox or Disney. The wrestling business just doesn't work that way, though, because fans by and large love the performers more than the characters they portray. They want to see the performers in good storylines having good matches. I'm probably doing a bad job of explaining my point, but yeah, the WWE owns its history, essentially, and that has diminishing returns after a while.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 16:39:59 GMT -5
Okay, so yeah, not even on the same level of discussion. Rapists, murderers, blatant racism, on-the-job deaths ain't the same as dropping acid to get better ideas. I never at all implied that it was shady to the same level as WWE. I was just saying that a company having a shady history probably isn't going to stop Disney from buying it. Also Disney themselves have made racist movies and put penises on Little Mermaid tape covers. I'm not saying Disney should or would buy WWE. I have no opinion on the matter. I'm just saying that the shady shit Vince has done over the years wouldn't stop a huge corporation from buying the company. They can always clean it up and say that these things are in the past. You would have to change an entire cultural outlook in order to do that. While wrestling is enjoyed by a large and nerdy part of the population, the casual masses still see it as either "fake bullshit", or this Sodom and Gomorrah setting where complete lunatics who take themselves way too seriously hurt each other and themselves for a predetermined outcome. Hell, I honestly think there are a lot of "Fans" out there that are way more interested in the tragedy and more macabre aspects of the pro-wrestling business than anything that occurs in a ring or actual story line. I'm not saying that other industries haven't done shady shit, but wrestling exists in this weird bubble. You can shine it up and make it family entertainment all you want, but at the end of the day there's always going to be that little bit of "but THE BOYS" mentality that stems from the whole business being built off of selling you fiction under the guise of real, even if Kayfabe has been dead for decades.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 29, 2020 16:41:06 GMT -5
Clickbait list sites should stick to that and stop trying to be actual reporters.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 30, 2020 7:17:53 GMT -5
It's mostly how they treated their creators over the years. There's a book about it called Marvel : The Untold Story that gives a pretty unbiased story of the history of the company, both good and bad. For example, in addition to certain rights and royalties situations, there were instances of people screwing each other over, editors cancelling books that were selling okay because they didn't like the creators personally and stuff like that. Also, there was a LOT of open drug use in the Marvel offices back in the 70's, which they allowed because it caused the writers and artists to "be more creative." Okay, so yeah, not even on the same level of discussion. Rapists, murderers, blatant racism, on-the-job deaths ain't the same as dropping acid to get better ideas. Heck I don't even see the drug use as a problem at all. A lot of those big famous comics by guys like Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis? To quote Bill Hicks, "RRRRRRRRREAL f***ing high on drugs"
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 30, 2020 8:38:33 GMT -5
1. The only way I can see Vince parting from WWE is in a pine box
2. The one thing I could see Disney coveting is all the merchandise deals. But it’s not like they are hurting for that already.
3. There is one possibility worth considering, however unlikely: that some shit may be about to hit the fan and Vince wants to save his own hide while there is still a chance. Considering there are already several potentially major lawsuits pending, it’s not u realistic to suggest, even if a massive stretch.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 30, 2020 9:03:22 GMT -5
I could see Fox buying WWE in a heartbeat if the chance came up, they desperately tried to buy the UFC for a content producer Im sure they’d take WWE lock stock if Vince put it up for sale. NBCUniversal might get in on the bidding, but I feel it would be Fox’s for the taking
But Disney? There’s no upside there. No spot for them under the Disney banner, doesn’t fit in with Disney+, no need for them under the ESPN banner, there’s never been a WWE/ABC connection, I just see no reason Disney would even bother asking a price
EDIT: And CBS Viacom seem to no longer have interest in pro wrestling, and I’m honestly not sure how long Bellator will survive if they lose the DAZN deal, so the list of people who would be interested in buying WWE is probably pretty short.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 30, 2020 10:02:31 GMT -5
The only buyers I see ever being likely are private equity firms who'll kill it by leveraged buyout as it's relatively cash rich. Buy it, shift the debt to the company while draining the cash reserves and TV deal through dividend payouts. They'll sell the library to Fox or Netflix then let the whole thing implode, selling the burning remains to Shane or Steph for pennies.
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