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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 6, 2020 19:05:16 GMT -5
Snyder's head canon was that Joker killed Dick Grayson... that said Joker doesn't need a backstory... and in fact he works a hell of a lot better without an official one Well backstory in terms of direction for what they wanted him to be. I should probably used vision instead but you get what I mean. They needed a proper vision of Joker instead of booking it on the fly Snyder head canon is all over the place tho I do remember him and Ayer saying Jason Todd wasn't Joker. Think we was supposed to get something about Joker killing Robin in one of the movies It was in Batman v. Superman... there was the robin suit with Joke's on you batman written on it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 6, 2020 19:06:15 GMT -5
Snyder's head canon was that Joker killed Dick Grayson... that said Joker doesn't need a backstory... and in fact he works a hell of a lot better without an official one He was the Red Hood, took an acid bath during a run-in with Batman. That's all you need to know about him. And even then you can do a Joker story perfectly fine without even that much. yeah, and even the red hood bit has changed between him being a part of a gang... to someone basically forced to wear it and everywhere in between.
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Post by Cyno on May 6, 2020 19:08:14 GMT -5
Ayer's verbal blowjob over Leto's creepy shit on set and touting it as ~acting genius~ is a big reason why I never even wanted to give it a chance TBH.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 6, 2020 20:12:38 GMT -5
I feel bad for Ayer as people are still pestering him years later. But Leto's version (at least what we got) is awful.
If there was a good version somewhere in there that we didn't get it sucks for him, but that ship has sailed.
What was presented to audiences was poopy.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on May 6, 2020 20:47:21 GMT -5
Ayer's verbal blowjob over Leto's creepy shit on set and touting it as ~acting genius~ is a big reason why I never even wanted to give it a chance TBH. Yup. They set it up as if Jared Leto was legit getting lost in the psychosis of The Joker and we were in for the shocker of all shockers by his performance. I get they figured it would draw people into the movie, but instead it was just off putting. Nobody was a big enough Leto fan to think he'd give us anything to get excited about.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,721
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on May 6, 2020 20:51:50 GMT -5
Will we now get calls to "RELEASE THE SNYDER AYER CUT!!!"?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 6, 2020 20:59:39 GMT -5
The promotion was also kind of distasteful given they were pretty clearly trying to echo how Ledger supposedly got 'lost in character' (which I don't really buy either) and they were trying to evoke that loss in people's minds.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 6, 2020 21:12:09 GMT -5
The promotion was also kind of distasteful given they were pretty clearly trying to echo how Ledger supposedly got 'lost in character' (which I don't really buy either) and they were trying to evoke that loss in people's minds. They did that in the promotion for this I thought Ledger being batshit crazy was backstage knowledge that came out after?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 6, 2020 21:22:06 GMT -5
The promotion was also kind of distasteful given they were pretty clearly trying to echo how Ledger supposedly got 'lost in character' (which I don't really buy either) and they were trying to evoke that loss in people's minds. They did that in the promotion for this I thought Ledger being batshit crazy was backstage knowledge that came out after? People were saying Ledger got really method playing Joker... but then backstage photos came out of him just ... kinda being a regular dude so I think that was just mythos to add to him becuase he died.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 6, 2020 21:24:55 GMT -5
They did that in the promotion for this I thought Ledger being batshit crazy was backstage knowledge that came out after? People were saying Ledger got really method playing Joker... but then backstage photos came out of him just ... kinda being a regular dude so I think that was just mythos to add to him becuase he died. Yea, the only thing I remember is something about him like getting more into the role in terms of it affecting his psychy but that was more so in his room.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 6, 2020 22:13:33 GMT -5
I actually appreciated Jack Saint's argument about the Leto Joker:
(language)
Don't be misled by the title: he's not actually being passionate about Leto's portrayal nor is he arguing that Suicide Squad was any good, so it's safe to put that out of your mind.
But the larger points are kind of well taken: that Leto was playing a character who, throughout his history, has been many different things, but in tons of cases has been almost built from the ground up to "irritate the shit" out of Batman. He's always been "extra AF", he's rarely been depicted as relatable or overtly "cool", and creating a guy who's basically just a cartoonish, try hard, abusive (especially towards Harley) gangster cretin is a perfectly valid take on the character, and some who decry him as "not how the Joker should be" might want to take stock of whether they're actually saying that because they want a Joker they can relate to ("he DOES have a tragic backstory!"/"he's calling out legitimate flaws in society!") or see as a badass ("Shit, Nicholson's playing him!"/"SHIT, the pencil trick!") rather than be alienated by or cringe at, since the former has been a bit more of the Joker MO we've had since The Killing Joke while the latter still undergirds a lot about the character over the decades.
...What that doesn't change, as he says in the video, is that the movie was still bad, Joker's presence was superfluous to the plot as presented in the final cut, and whatever they were going for with the character likely did not translate thanks to the ridiculous process behind the creation of Suicide Squad and the inane gymnastics the studio went through with it. Plus, yeah, Leto being a creep behind the scenes is a valid reason for a viewer to say "I can't begin to get into this." But ultimately, if we just look at the Joker character, design, aesthetic, etc. as Leto played it in and of itself, it's not an inherently bad or baseless take on the character; like others said before, the thinking was there, but likely in large part thanks to the absurdity of the film's creation the execution was way off.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on May 6, 2020 22:50:49 GMT -5
They did that in the promotion for this I thought Ledger being batshit crazy was backstage knowledge that came out after? People were saying Ledger got really method playing Joker... but then backstage photos came out of him just ... kinda being a regular dude so I think that was just mythos to add to him becuase he died. Literally all fabrication and people making assertions that weren’t true. Gary Oldman shot this down ages ago when asked if Heath “got lost in the role” on set and said Heath would finish a take and sit on a curb with Gary to smoke a cigarette and talk about his daughter. The man was scared shitless his portrayal sucked after his very first take mistaking Nolan figuring out a technical thing for questioning his performance. Hardly a man “lost in the role”, whatever the hell that means. Heath had sleeping/drug issues aside from acting. What Heath did that was beneficial was journal. Close to the stanislavski method. That mixed in with good instincts is what made his portrayal stand out. Probably the same with most of the roles he took. He was more cerebral about his parts then I think he got credit for. More professional. Don’t know what the f*** Leto did (besides stupid METHOD antics that may-or-may not-have-happened.). Charisma wasn’t his problem. Leto’s good in other roles through sheer charisma alone. My guess is he didn’t do his homework. The role came off as shallow. Vapid. Empty. Try-hardy. Came off like a middle school theater child trying to be edgy. “Would you live for me? No..would you die for me?” Is one of the worst delivered lines I’ve heard in the last decade. There’s nothing behind it. No backstory. No clear objective or obstacles in his entire performance. TLDR Letos Joker performance f***ing sucked.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 7, 2020 4:09:22 GMT -5
No amount of lost footage takes away the stupid tattoos, metal teeth, juggalo clothes, dumb voice...
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 7, 2020 4:58:10 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 6:45:13 GMT -5
"I was taking inspiration from the current DC comics."
Well see there's your problem right there. Scott Snyder era Joker (IMO) was sadistic crap and sucked.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2020 9:04:32 GMT -5
No amount of lost footage takes away the stupid tattoos, metal teeth, juggalo clothes, dumb voice... Well, again, with a script that actually made use of those things those all could have worked, if the characterization they wanted for Joker was that he is a tryhard edgelord who seeks to irk and insult the self-seriousness of Batman, etc. But instead they made these choices but then shoehorned Joker into Suicide Squad and didn't offer any context for the characterization.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 7, 2020 9:36:07 GMT -5
No amount of lost footage takes away the stupid tattoos, metal teeth, juggalo clothes, dumb voice... Well, again, with a script that actually made use of those things those all could have worked, if the characterization they wanted for Joker was that he is a tryhard edgelord who seeks to irk and insult the self-seriousness of Batman, etc. But instead they made these choices but then shoehorned Joker into Suicide Squad and didn't offer any context for the characterization. Right, but a bunch of folks wouldn't have accepted any reason they gave regardless. I probably wouldn't have. It was just an awful risk to take on a character who wasn't begging for reinvention.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 7, 2020 12:33:09 GMT -5
Joker as a grimy street sleaze is a good idea on paper. Leto derailed it by acting more like a spaz than someone Batman and the others should be taking seriously. Should have just created an entirely new character called Spaz The Street Punk. Let him be a villain for a lower level DC hero.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2020 13:21:37 GMT -5
Well, again, with a script that actually made use of those things those all could have worked, if the characterization they wanted for Joker was that he is a tryhard edgelord who seeks to irk and insult the self-seriousness of Batman, etc. But instead they made these choices but then shoehorned Joker into Suicide Squad and didn't offer any context for the characterization. Right, but a bunch of folks wouldn't have accepted any reason they gave regardless. I probably wouldn't have. It was just an awful risk to take on a character who wasn't begging for reinvention. I'm sure the reaction wouldn't have been all positive, given that he was pretty much made to be alienating to most viewers, but I'd argue that cinematic Joker could be in need of a bit of reinvention; just feel like there's a bit too much of a streak out of there of people who watched Nicholson, Ledger, and Phoenix and like the character for being showy and cool (Nicholson), nihilistically philosophical and badass (Ledger), or initially relatable before launching into screeds about society's shortcomings that people can at least partially agree with (Phoenix). With those in mind, I could be convinced of the potential "need" for a more straight-up shitbag Joker who's not meant to inspire any sort of sympathy or desire for emulation...but yeah, by its nature that would have led to some level of backlash even with a script/film where it actually fit and could potentially work.
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Post by No One on May 7, 2020 14:25:39 GMT -5
That entire movie sucked other than Slipknot,the man who can climb anything.
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