Random thought on One More Day over a decade later.

[Kevin Hamilton]

This just popped in my head; it'd have probably still have been poorly received but would be a interesting, different dynamic if instead of Aunt May being shot it was MJ.

Then you have the prospect of Peter having to make the choice of either losing MJ one way with their marriage being gone or losing her entirely. That seems like it'd be more of a palpable choice for many fans. He'd be making the sacrifice to save her at the cost of his own happiness and she'd never know. It just feels like to me that'd work better as I always kind of thought May wouldn't necessarily have wanted to rip away Pete and MJ's happiness especially since she might just want to see Ben again.

I guess the weakness in this version is you remove MJ's agency in the decision and don't give her a choice so it's admittedly not a perfect scenario either.

I just feel like you're making Peter know what he's giving up, even if he won't remember it later, and it be more of a 1:1 trade off there

I mean ideally he wouldn't have made a deal with the devil, but ya know whatever.

[BorneAgain]

A lot of the issue with One More Day is that it was a story created not for interesting story possibilities, but to revert back to the status quo. Hence the actual potential of the setup was never really taken advantage of. Imagine the character drama if Mephisto had taken away Peter's memory of the marriage only briefly, and that after one day he (and he alone) would then suddenly recall everything, now having to reconcile everything he gave up. All the precious memories of what he had now contrasted with seeing the likes of MJ married to someone else in the reality that he had created.

Or if you wanted to build upon your idea, that Mephisto's offer is that either their marriage is wiped, MJ dies, or Parker dies in her place. Thus you can have MJ make her own contribution in refusing to let Peter sacrifice himself. In the end its the two of them deciding to lose what they were in order to give a chance at life to the one they love. And just to twist the knife, the last thing Mephisto says to Parker before the wipe takes place is that the real sacrifice he's getting isn't the marriage, its the child that they would have had, that will now never be born.

[chrom]

Quesada should've been tarred and feathered for that garbage

[Joe Neglia]

Hooooooo boy.

Okay, so as some of you who were around this place back then know, I caught a good bit of heat with Marvel brass (And thank you for that, Rich Johnston, you wannabe "journalist" motherf***er. Try contacting someone you use in your "articles" like a real journalist would before they use a quote from them) when I made a post here calling this storyline the biggest mistake Marvel ever made not long after it came out. Or worst mistake, one, I forget. Either way, I said that and I stand by it.

I never said it was the worst written story they ever did, or even that it was bad. I said it was a mistake. And it was.

Regardless of the quality of the story, it told an entire generation of readers that everything they'd read, everything they had held close to their hearts, or felt exuberance over, or found joy in the continuity that Marvel had for so many decades before that trumpeted as an integral part of their universe's structure, was meaningless. That they'd practically wasted their time for 20 years.

And it told them that all bets were off now, don't take any of what you're reading to heart, because we can do the same to anything else. Retcons happen, that's part of the game. It's expected. But this wasn't a retcon or even a reboot. It was a lazy wave of the hand over something the editors - not the writers but the editors - wanted, without any real intention of following it up or using it bridge the gap between the old and new, or giving the previous readers a reason to continue into the new era.

Editorial mandate has - just like retcons - always been around. But this story, this big, major story, was the most damaging salvo sent to send a message that it didn't matter what the fans wanted; it didn't matter what the writers wanted. The only people who had any actual say were the editors and those above the editors, and their desires and feelings were the only thing that mattered. This in and of itself would not have been that big a deal, but the knowledge of this, the fear of this by fans, was already out there. Readers knew in real time what the driving force behind the storyline was.

It was a mistake because it didn't give readers a good, clear jumping-on point - it gave them a good, clear jumping-off point for all the reasons above combined with whatever elements of the story itself they did not like. The main book (Amazing) lost 14-15% of its audience just from the time the story arc started to the end. Two years prior to OMD, Amazing sales were around 80k copies. The era building up to OMD got them to as high as 125k or so. Two years after OMD, sales could see as low as 58k copies. Even though it brought in more readers for a short time, when all was said and done, not only did old readers leave, but so did a lot of the new readers it had brought in. It ultimately did nothing to help the book and actually left it - through the new direction - a worse seller than it had been.

Whatever can be said about the quality of the post-One More Day book, a lot of readers in that time who would have stuck with what they considered a mediocre book because it was ASM. But they didn't, because One More Day gave them a chance to jump, and they jumped. Even the ones that waited a few months in a 'wait-and-see' position jumped when it was becoming more clear that this unquestionably was the new direction.

Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character. Even with the heights of the X-Men in the 90s, even with the surge in popularity other characters have gained thanks to the MCU movies, Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character. And One More Day left its flagship character worse off.

One More Day was a mistake. And I'll stand by that.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Very true on all that. I was one of those that jumped off, not because of any fan rage or whatever, it's just that it was a pretty clear demarcation point to be able to drop a book for much of the reasons you stated.

It's kind of a shame for Slott's later decade long run. I've sampled some of that here and there&a lot of it is pretty damned good. But I wasn't following it for that decade run at the time and that's part of the reason why.

I even have always understood the editorial rationale for the story--didn't really agree with it but understood it. You don't want him married any more, fine. Have them get divorced. The idea of that aging the character or somehow being a problem is f***ing stupid cuz a)once you divorce them, you just never really mention it story wise again if you don't want too and b)there's not much unrealistic about a couple in their 20s realizing they weren't right for each other forever. If anything, it reinforces Pete's sense of responsibility as he's doing the right thing despite it hurting. You don't need a hand wavey retcon that way.

I do think if you're gonna do it that way, MJ was the right way to go. But they didn't ask me.

It's befuddling though that divorce always being a part of the guy's continuity is such a taboo, particularly when something like 53% of marriage end, yet now and for all time, this happened. You can just not mention it and etc, but it's there. Not to mention, JMS does great at interpersonal drama stories. You could have crafted a really well told tearjerker of a story that had the two of them parting ways that also felt satisfying.

Bottom line, Spider-Man shouldn't be making deals with the devil especially when there's a simpler out anyway.

[thechase]

May 8, 2020 7:47:24 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

It's kind of a shame for Slott's later decade long run. I've sampled some of that here and there&a lot of it is pretty damned good.

Slott's run is terrible. He never understood Peter, MJ, or anyone other than Otto. The guy is also a douche. Never get on his bad side. I did, although I sure as sugar don't regret it. The hack deserves my scorn. I'd even call Superior Spider-Man an even worse piece of s*it than One More Day, even if it is arguably the biggest success story of the post-OMD era.

I feel almost sorry more for Nick Spencer, he's been cleaning up every turd laid by Slott and his cronies since he took over, he put Peter back with MJ, gave Felicia back her knowledge of Peter's identity, and has laid the groundwork for what has become a steadily growing and popular resurgence in the Spider-Man line, with everyone, from love interests to b-villains, getting individual focus and a fresh spring in their step. The Kindred mystery is geniually captivating too. All of this is vastly superior to Slott's garbage.

And yet...I fear all of that enthusiasm and trust for Spencer is going to evaporate, because everyone wants his run to be the one that undoes One More Day and restores the marriage, and a part of me just doesn't think he's going to pull that off...and if he doesn't, it makes his run one big tease that some may not have the willpower to go back and re-read if all it leads to is another bittersweet set back for Spidey.

I'd feel fully sorry, but the guy DID make Cap a Nazi.

As for divorce..nope, would'nt happen. No Spider-Man fan would EVER want that to happen and it's one of the few things I agreed with Quesada on. Peter and MJ had survived way too much to walk away from each other by that point, and we've now seen plenty of alternate realities where they make their marriage work and raise remarkable children. The best thing about OMD is the ending where MJ says "no matter what Mephisto does, our love will ultimately survive and we'll find each other again", it took them ten years real-time, but that's probably only a few months in comic book time, and now they're back together and happy...and if something ever happens again, you can just say Mephisto's magic had a resurgence and they'll recover from it again some other day. The love story can be turned on and off at leisure, but it will never truly die.

Going through with divorce was one of the reasons I refused to support Into The Spider-Verse in theatres. God I hate Peter B Parker...but then, I think that was the point.

The marriage in itself never truly died all decade either...it was in the newspaper strip and Renew Your Vows...all of that eventually dried up, but by the time it did, Peter and MJ were back together under Spencer. 

[Kevin Hamilton]

Disagree.

Slott does good work and is a good guy.

Spencer's stuff so far has been good, I was mainly in it for the Ottley art.

You're wrong about no Spidey fan wanting a divorce. I laid out the case for it and why I'd be fine with it&I've been a Spider-Man fan since his days on the Electric Company. You and others may disagree&that's fine. It's subjective opinion. Grand pronouncements about what all fans of X would like are dumb.

I preferred them to stay married cuz of character growth and whatnot but ultimately am ok with them not being as there are plenty of stories that can be told without it. They just chose the wonkiest way to get there.

[Kevin Hamilton]

May 8, 2020 9:40:51 GMT -5 thechase said:

May 8, 2020 9:36:33 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Disagree.

What a compelling argument, so well thought out and articulate.


Very definition of "Pro Tip: You Can't" right here ladies and gentleman. 

I went back and laid out what I felt before seeing this, but ultimately I didn't have to. I'm not making an argument because I'm not trying to convince anyone. Why the f*** would I care to debate or whatever. It's a comic book.

Don't be a douche.

[thechase]

May 8, 2020 9:36:33 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Disagree.

Slott does good work and is a good guy.

Spencer's stuff so far has been good, I was mainly in it for the Ottley art.

You're wrong about no Spidey fan wanting a divorce. I laid out the case for it and why I'd be fine with it

You didn't lay out anything, you spoke complete falsehoods about the kind of decisions Peter and MJ would make as character . I laid out my case that we've seen them make it work in other continuities, ones which aren't even altogether distinctly different from the one we regularly follow.  They are not people who would think they weren't good together, they had spent a good portion of the JMS run realising how much they valued each other.  They would grow and mature, and raise children. The Renew Your Vows team are the most successful tandem in present Marvel lore because their daughter is presently the multiverse's prime weaver. Not exactly the lasting legacy of two 20 somethings who realised they 'couldn't be compatible' together is it?

Peter and MJ would not divorce. Period.

As for your claims about Slott



Don't try to tell me how much of a good guy that utter cretin is. I have dealt with him in the past, friends of mine have dealt with him in the past, and have been subjected to a lot of emotional abuse from him, he's a total narcissistic parasite who can't take criticism and he makes it personal with everyone.

Grand pronouncements about what all fans of X would like are dumb.

I speak for what the majority want.

[Deleted]

Guys, c'mon, calm down. Seriously, everyone can have their own opinion.

[thechase]

May 8, 2020 10:05:04 GMT -5 @irontyger said:

Guys, c'mon, calm down. Seriously, everyone can have their own opinion.

 I apologise for getting so heated about it, OMD had a very profound affect on me at in my 20s and partially contributed to a breakdown I had a few years later. Me and my friends being abused/trolled by Slott and his editor  Steven Wacker didn't help matters afterwards either. I've been a far of Spidey for almost thirty-two years, I grew up with the marriage, and I know these characters, and I, personally, feel they would never do what Keith was suggesting.

I feel divorce in life works if you know you're in the wrong relationship, but for people who have always loved and looked out for another, who've picked each other up when down, and are perceived even after the divorce as being perfectly happy to be around and support each other, yet they still feel the need to get away, it's a cowardly option. I was raised by very strong parents and I will never condone divorce as a solution to anything. It teaches children nothing but bad lessons.

What does it accomplish ultimately for Spidey? It doesn't suddenly make the books better, it doesn't make the character happy, it makes him the ultimate failiure. He loses his greatest responsibility one way or the other and if editorial persist, he can never marry again to make up for it and redeem himself for what he lost, and strive to be better. You know...lessons kids ought to learn.

And ignoring it is just as dumb and creatively bankrupt as ignoring Sins Past, the loss of their baby, and even the devil dealing itself. All of that happened. Everyone knows it happened. Don't make any of that a secret shame. Exploit it to it's utmost creative potential and broaden the mythology a little, if not a lot.

[chrom]

When they said they did it so that Spider Man would not lose his appeal to kids and readers, they were basically saying that their fanbase are nothing more than pathetic losers who live in the basement and will never have a family.