Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 6:57:35 GMT -5
Bayley and Sasha are the top women without Charlotte and Becky around so its no surprise they are being pushed so hard. People want to see them, its not their fault the rest of the womens division bar Asuka is so poor. All the babyface women suck badly, Liv, Ruby, Naomi, Dana etc are a bunch of losers nobody cares about, Nikki and Alexa are about to break up and Tamina is Tamina. There is literally noone for Bayley and Sasha to feud with. Almost like they should have built people up rather than make them into losers? Naomi literally has a hashtag to get her a push. There are no crowds, viewership is falling, it's a sign that at least 1 person has a fanbase, whether you personally like them or not, there's support so run with it. Ruby is fantastic but has been buried as a joke heel for years, a face turn could have been a big change, stepping off point to use her, instead it's a damp squib. For some reason, they had Ruby cut a great promo on the post show 2 weeks ago....that nobody saw, instead of doing it on TV. Lacey Evans was turned face and given a slight push, only for Bayley to call her a loser and then beat her repeatedly. You have a bunch of women sitting around doing nothing. IAt the very least, there's a tag division that you could try using them towards building
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Post by Ash Kingston on Jul 29, 2020 6:59:47 GMT -5
SmackDown has 11 talents on their books, with two of them possibly having had the COVID (Rose and Deville) and another having been absent for nearly three months now (Carmella). This leaves Bayley, Banks, Bliss, Cross, Naomi, Evans, Brooke and Tamina. With WWE’s utter refusal to use outside enhancement talents, this means that, ostensibly, they have try and keep a champion strong, a challenger strong and maybe the next two or three challengers strong, by beating... who, exactly? It really doesn't help that Bayley has basically stomped all over her available competition before this (except maybe Dana and Naomi?), so even if you do build them up... who cares? She's beaten them multiple times before, why is now going to be any different? And it's the same problem with the women's tag division (a problem they had with prior champs, too) for similar reasons; there's nobody built up for them to lose them to, and the teams they do have were already beaten by Sasha and Bayley, so... who cares? The only way I can see Bayley vs Sasha happening at this point is for one of them to decide that they want to be the first Triple Champion (and, presumably, NXT is not involved in this for... reasons), a thought that fills me with dread. But... I dunno, maybe they'll actually put the title on Nikki this Friday, and Bayley will turn on Sasha. Not gonna hold my breath, though, because I can't have nice things.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 7:03:56 GMT -5
The biggest issue is this: When the Sasha/Bayley breakup does happen, the only one that looks good will be Sasha.
The rest of the division was beaten senseless and left for dead by these 2. Sure, they'll drop the tag titles, likely due to a miscommunication. So (insert team here) will look like they got lucky AND won't have any challengers because the rest of the division looks like ass.
Sasha will drop her title en route to fighting Bayley, but again, that'll be either by backfiring interference or Bayley outright screwing over Sasha. So, (insert wrestler here) looks like they got lucky and then will have no challanger because the rest of the division will have been on the back burner
Hell, when Sasha wins the title off Bayley....who challenges her? Her and Bayley already beat everone.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 29, 2020 7:05:57 GMT -5
SmackDown has 11 talents on their books, with two of them possibly having had the COVID (Rose and Deville) and another having been absent for nearly three months now (Carmella). This leaves Bayley, Banks, Bliss, Cross, Naomi, Evans, Brooke and Tamina. With WWE’s utter refusal to use outside enhancement talents, this means that, ostensibly, they have try and keep a champion strong, a challenger strong and maybe the next two or three challengers strong, by beating... who, exactly? It really doesn't help that Bayley has basically stomped all over her available competition before this (except maybe Dana and Naomi?), so even if you do build them up... who cares? She's beaten them multiple times before, why is now going to be any different? And it's the same problem with the women's tag division (a problem they had with prior champs, too) for similar reasons; there's nobody built up for them to lose them to, and the teams they do have were already beaten by Sasha and Bayley, so... who cares? The only way I can see Bayley vs Sasha happening at this point is for one of them to decide that they want to be the first Triple Champion (and, presumably, NXT is not involved in this for... reasons), a thought that fills me with dread. But... I dunno, maybe they'll actually put the title on Nikki this Friday, and Bayley will turn on Sasha. Not gonna hold my breath, though, because I can't have nice things. Naomi lost to her on the last Saudi Arabia show, and Brooke’s never had a title shot against her. She was going to be in the six-way at WM but got pulled.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 7:06:57 GMT -5
SmackDown has 11 talents on their books, with two of them possibly having had the COVID (Rose and Deville) and another having been absent for nearly three months now (Carmella). This leaves Bayley, Banks, Bliss, Cross, Naomi, Evans, Brooke and Tamina. With WWE’s utter refusal to use outside enhancement talents, this means that, ostensibly, they have try and keep a champion strong, a challenger strong and maybe the next two or three challengers strong, by beating... who, exactly? It really doesn't help that Bayley has basically stomped all over her available competition before this (except maybe Dana and Naomi?), so even if you do build them up... who cares? She's beaten them multiple times before, why is now going to be any different? And it's the same problem with the women's tag division (a problem they had with prior champs, too) for similar reasons; there's nobody built up for them to lose them to, and the teams they do have were already beaten by Sasha and Bayley, so... who cares? Yes! Like I said earlier in the thread, they've given a few of them mini builds, just enough to look semi credible before losing Bayley and being toss right back down into the abyss
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 7:08:03 GMT -5
It really doesn't help that Bayley has basically stomped all over her available competition before this (except maybe Dana and Naomi?), so even if you do build them up... who cares? She's beaten them multiple times before, why is now going to be any different? And it's the same problem with the women's tag division (a problem they had with prior champs, too) for similar reasons; there's nobody built up for them to lose them to, and the teams they do have were already beaten by Sasha and Bayley, so... who cares? The only way I can see Bayley vs Sasha happening at this point is for one of them to decide that they want to be the first Triple Champion (and, presumably, NXT is not involved in this for... reasons), a thought that fills me with dread. But... I dunno, maybe they'll actually put the title on Nikki this Friday, and Bayley will turn on Sasha. Not gonna hold my breath, though, because I can't have nice things. Naomi lost to her on the last Saudi Arabia show, and Brooke’s never had a one-on-one title shot but lost in the five-way at WM. Didn't Carmella get a shot somewhere, or did I imagine that?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 29, 2020 7:10:07 GMT -5
Naomi lost to her on the last Saudi Arabia show, and Brooke’s never had a one-on-one title shot but lost in the five-way at WM. Didn't Carmella get a shot somewhere, or did I imagine that? No, you didn’t imagine it, she had a title match on TV back in February.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 7:16:52 GMT -5
They finally present Sasha and Bayley as being on-par with Becky and Charlotte, and they do it in such an obnoxious, overbearing way that I have zero interest in seeing them anymore. Classic WWE.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 7:42:21 GMT -5
They finally present Sasha and Bayley as being on-par with Becky and Charlotte, and they do it in such an obnoxious, overbearing way that I have zero interest in seeing them anymore. Classic WWE. Part of it is because Becky/Charlotte are gone, so they're cramming them all over TV instead of taking this opportunity to build up the rest of the roster in their absence.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 7:44:13 GMT -5
Didn't Carmella get a shot somewhere, or did I imagine that? No, you didn’t imagine it, she had a title match on TV back in February. Now I am far from her biggest fan (she has come a long way, and her face turn had a ton to do with it), but you're telling me that she's not over enough to warrent being pushed to some degree, or paired up with someone (her and Niaomi seemed to click a bit) for the tag titles?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 29, 2020 8:03:35 GMT -5
No, you didn’t imagine it, she had a title match on TV back in February. Now I am far from her biggest fan (she has come a long way, and her face turn had a ton to do with it), but you're telling me that she's not over enough to warrent being pushed to some degree, or paired up with someone (her and Niaomi seemed to click a bit) for the tag titles? She’d have to actually show up on TV at some point first. She’s been gone since Money In The Bank, you know.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 8:09:09 GMT -5
Now I am far from her biggest fan (she has come a long way, and her face turn had a ton to do with it), but you're telling me that she's not over enough to warrent being pushed to some degree, or paired up with someone (her and Niaomi seemed to click a bit) for the tag titles? She’d have to actually show up on TV at some point first. She’s been gone since Money In The Bank, you know. True. And my response to that depends on *why*. If she has covid or is staying home to avoid the risk, then I obviously get it. If she simply isn't being used....well, then it's stupid.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 29, 2020 8:16:49 GMT -5
With WWE’s utter refusal to use outside enhancement talents, this means that, ostensibly, they have try and keep a champion strong, a challenger strong and maybe the next two or three challengers strong, by beating... who, exactly? Never excuse bad WWE caveats when fantasy booking. You’ll always hit a wall. To break through the wall, they should just do the opposite of what doesn’t work. Simple.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jul 29, 2020 8:21:24 GMT -5
SmackDown has 11 talents on their books, with two of them possibly having had the COVID (Rose and Deville) and another having been absent for nearly three months now (Carmella). This leaves Bayley, Banks, Bliss, Cross, Naomi, Evans, Brooke and Tamina. With WWE’s utter refusal to use outside enhancement talents, this means that, ostensibly, they have try and keep a champion strong, a challenger strong and maybe the next two or three challengers strong, by beating... who, exactly? It really doesn't help that Bayley has basically stomped all over her available competition before this (except maybe Dana and Naomi?), so even if you do build them up... who cares? She's beaten them multiple times before, why is now going to be any different? And it's the same problem with the women's tag division (a problem they had with prior champs, too) for similar reasons; there's nobody built up for them to lose them to, and the teams they do have were already beaten by Sasha and Bayley, so... who cares? The only way I can see Bayley vs Sasha happening at this point is for one of them to decide that they want to be the first Triple Champion (and, presumably, NXT is not involved in this for... reasons), a thought that fills me with dread. But... I dunno, maybe they'll actually put the title on Nikki this Friday, and Bayley will turn on Sasha. Not gonna hold my breath, though, because I can't have nice things. The other thing to remember is even before the heel turn Bayley also had a several-month reign as a face, including beating Alexa/Nikki in a handicap match.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jul 29, 2020 8:23:14 GMT -5
The biggest issue is this: When the Sasha/Bayley breakup does happen, the only one that looks good will be Sasha. The rest of the division was beaten senseless and left for dead by these 2. Sure, they'll drop the tag titles, likely due to a miscommunication. So (insert team here) will look like they got lucky AND won't have any challengers because the rest of the division looks like ass. Sasha will drop her title en route to fighting Bayley, but again, that'll be either by backfiring interference or Bayley outright screwing over Sasha. So, (insert wrestler here) looks like they got lucky and then will have no challanger because the rest of the division will have been on the back burner Hell, when Sasha wins the title off Bayley....who challenges her? Her and Bayley already beat everone. There’s still plenty of credible matchups for Sasha, especially if she’s a face (can defend against heels and faces then). You have Shayna, Jax, Belair, Flair, Naomi, Evans, Sonya who are all credible and can be built up for title defenses. Maybe Ember will be healed by then. Plus anyone from NXT due for a callup.. My guess is Rousey comes back next year too.
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mistery
King Koopa
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Post by mistery on Jul 29, 2020 8:23:23 GMT -5
I'm amazed at how angry people are getting over Ember's remarks about the Sasha/Asuka match from Monday. She hated the finish, thought it made Asuka look real bad.
And now you have people crawling out of the woodwork accusing her of having a grudge against the 4HW, and also for "not waiting for the story to be resolved", and that she's just jealous she isn't as successful or as popular as the WWE 4HW. Uh every time that point comes up, it never ends in an actual decent fashion, and Ember mentioned that on her Twitch stream. Every time we are told to wait to see how a storyline plays out, it never ends in a satisfying fashion.
She's not wrong. At all. It's painfully obvious they position Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte, and Becky so far above the other women it's not really fair. And the other women aren't given a chance to do well. Look at Kairi Sane. WWE only realized how good she was when she was a couple of weeks away from leaving. Otherwise she was used as fodder to put over the 4HW. Despite being at the same level or above (at least some of) the 4HW in terms of charisma and in ring ability.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 8:26:42 GMT -5
Ember deserved much much bigger chances than she ever got, regardless. If there's any beef, it's perfectly acceptable in this case. Wish she recovered from that injury. ^
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,514
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 8:31:05 GMT -5
The biggest issue is this: When the Sasha/Bayley breakup does happen, the only one that looks good will be Sasha. The rest of the division was beaten senseless and left for dead by these 2. Sure, they'll drop the tag titles, likely due to a miscommunication. So (insert team here) will look like they got lucky AND won't have any challengers because the rest of the division looks like ass. Sasha will drop her title en route to fighting Bayley, but again, that'll be either by backfiring interference or Bayley outright screwing over Sasha. So, (insert wrestler here) looks like they got lucky and then will have no challanger because the rest of the division will have been on the back burner Hell, when Sasha wins the title off Bayley....who challenges her? Her and Bayley already beat everone. There’s still plenty of credible matchups for Sasha, especially if she’s a face (can defend against heels and faces then). You have Shayna, Jax, Belair, Flair, Naomi, Evans, Sonya who are all credible and can be built up for title defenses. Maybe Ember will be healed by then. Plus anyone from NXT due for a callup.. My guess is Rousey comes back next year too. She'll be on SD, so out goes Jax, Shayna and Belair and who knows with Charlotte, depending on which brand she ends up on. That leaves Naomi who is just now starting to get a forced push thanks to twitter and Evans who has been beaten repeatedly in big matches and Sonya who barely gets any meaningful TV time these days
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Jul 29, 2020 8:34:54 GMT -5
I watched the match and the result and... I liked it.
I don't see it as making Asuka look dumb as much as it kinda cemented that she's a babyface. Like one who actually is loyal to the people she cares about. She cares about Kairi. So in that situation, seeing her friend being battered, of course she'd put her focus on her friend's safety and sacrifice the title. She now has more of a reason for revenge and more of a reason to destroy the golden role models. It's only a case of how the booking makes her look that is more concerning.
As for the ending of the match, it worked great in building the golden role models as this duo who will stoop to any low to attain victory and, if booked right, could make their downfall worth the wait. Also, given Sasha's favorite wrestler is Eddie Guerrero, the idea that she won the title via cheating works so well.
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BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by BorneAgain on Jul 29, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -5
Something that I think is worth mentioning is that you don't actually need to have Sasha and Bayley lose to a lot the current talents in matches to make their presence and push more tolerable for audiences. Imagine a segment of Bayley in recognition of their status as role models, presents an inspirational portrait of herself and Sasha only for it to have been defaced by the babyfaces and the segment ending with likes of Asuka throwing Bayley through it.
Its nothing ground breaking or particularly cool, but it allows the heels to show their ass and allow the babyfaces a good moment without an actual match. Even if one is of the opinion that its better to hold of on the duo losing their titles or even getting pinned/submitted in ring that much, there's loads of ways to give more energy and variety to their television time than the constant pattern of Bayley/Banks getting interrupted during promos leading to matches.
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