Does Balor=Rusev?

[Sephiroth]

Been considering this since a thread about Rusev revealing how Vince was never on board with Rusev Day and insisted that the fans were only chanting it and buying the merch to mock him. For a long time I believed Rusev was stuck treading water because of how good he was, and that Vince and co simply relegated him to that position because they figured they could rebuild him at a moment's notice. But now I genuinely agree with a consensus that Vince looked at Rusev and just saw a big foreign heel-period. And that because he had made up his mind like that, he could never see how diverse a performer Rusev is and the unlimited potential that could have come of it. And another posted even commented that it would be no shock that Vince may even be resentful that a goofy, laid back, funny, non-competitive guy like Rusev could achieve such levels of success, including marrying such a bombshell of a wife.

Which leads me to wonder-does the same perhaps apply to Balor? Its no secret that FAN and the IWC in general have often been perplexed that WWE relegated him to the midcard after strapping an initial rocket to him by crowning the first Universal Champion. Or that they have not moved him back into the main event in the years since, despite the fact that he is a solid hand in the ring, has a great look, and is a consistent merchandise mover. I'm lead to conclude his initial push was purely through Triple H going to bat for him, but after that Vince looked at him and just saw a flippy guy who wears face paint-and that is all. Granted, there are a lot of US fans who don't know Balor's potential diversity from his body of work in Japan and Europe, knowing him only from the moment he arrived in NXT. But still, with all the tools he has to be a megastar, it seems to me that there must be something in Vince's eyes blocking any potential push to the top from ever happening again. Added to that, Balor strikes me as being like Rusev; a laid back, non-competitive guy, probably in no small part because he could just as easily go to Japan and be a star there once again, or even pursue other ventures outside of wrestling. As well as being an unabashed comic book and toy collecting nerd. The kind of personality that goes counter to everything Vince McMahon sees as a measure of manliness and star power.

Sound about accurate?

[Deleted]

I want real real size cut portrait of Finn Balor now. Maybe also Rusev. And Alexa Bliss. Also, Liv. Shame those online seems to be sold quickly.

[greyfmdan]

It’s an apt comparison.

But then, it also begs the question in my mind, why did Vince fall in love with Roman over those guys? I know it’s a topic that’s been discussed countless times here already. But in a lot of respects, there’s not that much difference the three of them on paper. When we’ve gotten glimpses of the real Roman, he seems every bit as chill & laid back as those guys. He has the model looks, but so does Finn (granted, Roman looks more like he’d be on a Harlequin cover while Finn looks more like an Abercrombie ad). I guess the difference is that Roman is kinda sorta related to the Rock, but is that really what makes the difference in Vince’s mind?

[floundertime]

Aug 23, 2020 12:40:25 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

It’s an apt comparison.

But then, it also begs the question in my mind, why did Vince fall in love with Roman over those guys? I know it’s a topic that’s been discussed countless times here already. But in a lot of respects, there’s not that much difference the three of them on paper. When we’ve gotten glimpses of the real Roman, he seems every bit as chill & laid back as those guys. He has the model looks, but so does Finn (granted, Roman looks more like he’d be on a Harlequin cover while Finn looks more like an Abercrombie ad). I guess the difference is that Roman is kinda sorta related to the Rock, but is that really what makes the difference in Vince’s mind?

Why did Vince fall in love with Roman over Finn. I think it's cause at the time Roman was healthy. They thought highly of Finn by making him the first Universal title holder. But Finn got hurt in that match and Vince lost interest in him. I wonder what Finn's career would of looked like if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't think he would of been fed to Brock since they went for KO and he wasn't fed to Brock either. Granted KO got fed to Goldberg, but not right away either

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Vince does not tend to forgive guys for having the gall to get injured during their big pushes.

It's weirdly one of the less spoken-about aspects of his douchiness because in fairness it ain't nearly as bad as being racist or covering up abuse, etc. but yeah, there's a whole lot of guys who get hurt while being pushed and just lose their spot. Fandango was earmarked for the IC title not long after his debut, and he has literally not won a title his entire career there. Mustafa Ali dropped out of title contention pretty sharpish.

Austin is damn lucky that after Summerslam '97 while he may have had a broken neck he still got to be on TV.

[111111]

I think with Finn it’s just that he’s kind of a bit boring.

Like he’s good looking and a good wrestler but hearing him talk is like watching paint dry.

[eJm]

Aug 23, 2020 15:19:40 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Austin is damn lucky that after Summerslam '97 while he may have had a broken neck he still got to be on TV.

The key difference between Austin and the others is that Austin was literally the most reacted to guy during a time they had another company breathing down their neck so they did everything they could to make sure he was on TV as much as possible to keep up with WCW.

It was a key reason why Owen got so much heat for what he did because it was him literally injuring the goose laying the golden eggs. If they didn’t have him, they were probably f***ed.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Aug 23, 2020 16:05:07 GMT -5 eJm said:

Aug 23, 2020 15:19:40 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Austin is damn lucky that after Summerslam '97 while he may have had a broken neck he still got to be on TV.

The key difference between Austin and the others is that Austin was literally the most reacted to guy during a time they had another company breathing down their neck so they did everything they could to make sure he was on TV as much as possible to keep up with WCW.

It was a key reason why Owen got so much heat for what he did because it was him literally injuring the goose laying the golden eggs. If they didn’t have him, they were probably f***ed.

And if it wasn't for WCW, we'd all be talking about Austin like he was Magnum TA or something, methinks - as Vince has proven that when he doesn't have to listen to the crowd reactions, he won't.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Aug 23, 2020 12:40:25 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

I guess the difference is that Roman is kinda sorta related to the Rock, but is that really what makes the difference in Vince’s mind?

I've been saying it on here since 2013, and I still believe to this day that Roman Reigns' booking across the entirety of his WWE run has been built off some offhand remark the Rock made backstage a decade ago that he might be interested in coming back to work a match against his cousin sometime.

[greyfmdan]

Aug 23, 2020 14:50:04 GMT -5 floundertime said:

Why did Vince fall in love with Roman over Finn. I think it's cause at the time Roman was healthy. They thought highly of Finn by making him the first Universal title holder. But Finn got hurt in that match and Vince lost interest in him. I wonder what Finn's career would of looked like if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't think he would of been fed to Brock since they went for KO and he wasn't fed to Brock either. Granted KO got fed to Goldberg, but not right away either

I get that, and "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay went on to list some other instances. Yet, it seems like Roman has spent more time out for health reasons than any of those guys. Much of that wasn’t wrestling injury-related, granted.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Aug 23, 2020 17:25:36 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

Aug 23, 2020 14:50:04 GMT -5 floundertime said:

Why did Vince fall in love with Roman over Finn. I think it's cause at the time Roman was healthy. They thought highly of Finn by making him the first Universal title holder. But Finn got hurt in that match and Vince lost interest in him. I wonder what Finn's career would of looked like if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't think he would of been fed to Brock since they went for KO and he wasn't fed to Brock either. Granted KO got fed to Goldberg, but not right away either

I get that, and "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay went on to list some other instances. Yet, it seems like Roman has spent more time out for health reasons than any of those guys. Much of that wasn’t wrestling injury-related, granted.

Because the right guys - Cena, Batista, Brock, Hunter, HBK, and even Roman - can get injured as much as they like and still get pushed.

[floundertime]

Aug 23, 2020 17:25:36 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

Aug 23, 2020 14:50:04 GMT -5 floundertime said:

Why did Vince fall in love with Roman over Finn. I think it's cause at the time Roman was healthy. They thought highly of Finn by making him the first Universal title holder. But Finn got hurt in that match and Vince lost interest in him. I wonder what Finn's career would of looked like if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't think he would of been fed to Brock since they went for KO and he wasn't fed to Brock either. Granted KO got fed to Goldberg, but not right away either

I get that, and "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay went on to list some other instances. Yet, it seems like Roman has spent more time out for health reasons than any of those guys. Much of that wasn’t wrestling injury-related, granted.

But Roman's health issues happened after he was established, Finn got hurt right from the start. Who knows if Roman would have the career he's had if he would of been out with health issues early in his push

[Final Countdown Jones]

Aug 23, 2020 12:40:25 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

It’s an apt comparison.

But then, it also begs the question in my mind, why did Vince fall in love with Roman over those guys? I know it’s a topic that’s been discussed countless times here already. But in a lot of respects, there’s not that much difference the three of them on paper. When we’ve gotten glimpses of the real Roman, he seems every bit as chill & laid back as those guys. He has the model looks, but so does Finn (granted, Roman looks more like he’d be on a Harlequin cover while Finn looks more like an Abercrombie ad). I guess the difference is that Roman is kinda sorta related to the Rock, but is that really what makes the difference in Vince’s mind?

I think one important piece to this situation is that Vince doesn't operate under entirely rational modes of thought, modern day Vince doubly so. If he gets an idea in his head and it becomes how he views somebody, there's simply nothing that is going to make his change his mind. He exists in a weird world of his own weird perceptions and quirks. Did he see Roman, who looks visually a certain way, and just feel like he was more of a 'man's man' or whatever? Did Rusev become pidgeonholed into the foreigner thing and just seem a bit too laid back when Vince first saw him in the wild? Did Finn's being sculpted more readily by NXT as a fresh product of the system end up portraying him in a way Vince didn't feel could be a top guy? There's a million weird possibilities that can somehow explain it, because the weird truth is, nothing in Vinceland makes too much sense at any given time.

[nisidhe]

Aug 23, 2020 18:57:43 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Aug 23, 2020 12:40:25 GMT -5 greyfmdan said:

It’s an apt comparison.

But then, it also begs the question in my mind, why did Vince fall in love with Roman over those guys? I know it’s a topic that’s been discussed countless times here already. But in a lot of respects, there’s not that much difference the three of them on paper. When we’ve gotten glimpses of the real Roman, he seems every bit as chill & laid back as those guys. He has the model looks, but so does Finn (granted, Roman looks more like he’d be on a Harlequin cover while Finn looks more like an Abercrombie ad). I guess the difference is that Roman is kinda sorta related to the Rock, but is that really what makes the difference in Vince’s mind?

I think one important piece to this situation is that Vince doesn't operate under entirely rational modes of thought, modern day Vince doubly so. If he gets an idea in his head and it becomes how he views somebody, there's simply nothing that is going to make his change his mind. He exists in a weird world of his own weird perceptions and quirks. Did he see Roman, who looks visually a certain way, and just feel like he was more of a 'man's man' or whatever? Did Rusev become pidgeonholed into the foreigner thing and just seem a bit too laid back when Vince first saw him in the wild? Did Finn's being sculpted more readily by NXT as a fresh product of the system end up portraying him in a way Vince didn't feel could be a top guy? There's a million weird possibilities that can somehow explain it, because the weird truth is, nothing in Vinceland makes too much sense at any given time.

Finn Balor was not a product of NXT. He came into WWE as a known quantity - fresh out of New Japan and the indie scene, known as a builder of BritWres as much as one of its biggest stars, one of the best guys in the business. A moveset to rival anyone out of Calgary, a look that could send him to Hollywood, a man with plenty of ideas with which to build his personal brand and the business as a whole - if Prince Devitt never made it to WWE, it would not have been any fault of his, and any promotion with him on it was bound to grow. In short, Vince didn't make Finn.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Aug 23, 2020 21:37:19 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

Aug 23, 2020 18:57:43 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

I think one important piece to this situation is that Vince doesn't operate under entirely rational modes of thought, modern day Vince doubly so. If he gets an idea in his head and it becomes how he views somebody, there's simply nothing that is going to make his change his mind. He exists in a weird world of his own weird perceptions and quirks. Did he see Roman, who looks visually a certain way, and just feel like he was more of a 'man's man' or whatever? Did Rusev become pidgeonholed into the foreigner thing and just seem a bit too laid back when Vince first saw him in the wild? Did Finn's being sculpted more readily by NXT as a fresh product of the system end up portraying him in a way Vince didn't feel could be a top guy? There's a million weird possibilities that can somehow explain it, because the weird truth is, nothing in Vinceland makes too much sense at any given time.

Finn Balor was not a product of NXT. He came into WWE as a known quantity - fresh out of New Japan and the indie scene, known as a builder of BritWres as much as one of its biggest stars, one of the best guys in the business. A moveset to rival anyone out of Calgary, a look that could send him to Hollywood, a man with plenty of ideas with which to build his personal brand and the business as a whole - if Prince Devitt never made it to WWE, it would not have been any fault of his, and any promotion with him on it was bound to grow. In short, Vince didn't make Finn.

I know where he came from and followed his work for years before he arrived. What I mean is that Finn spent a lot of time in NXT and how one is portrayed in NXT, to a degree, ends up shaping the course of their portrayal when they get to the main roster. He wasn't sculpted as a performer in NXT, but what Finn's WWE presence is was, and seemingly because of the degree to which the audience is now expected to be familiar with NXT, people don't often get radical changes on their call up. Hell, people often don't even get introduced, they just get thrown out there with the expectation everybody knows them already, fully formed and developed beings. It's part of why I'm not surprised AJ managed to skip NXT and get to the position he's in now; as far as outsiders go, he's one who Vince got to work the WWE image of and brand up all on his own.