Mozenrath
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Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,111
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 12, 2021 5:34:48 GMT -5
It's about what I'd expect. Some people are probably going to point to stuff like that to say it's all a farce, etc, but it's honestly pretty typical for abusive people to single others out while simultaneously establishing character witnesses. Maybe Eliza by the nature of her position on the show was in a less vulnerable position, or maybe she was insulated because he didn't think he could pull this shit with her personality, and thus never tried it. Either way, I know she's been open with her own issues she's had with things like the stunt guy from True Lies, I think it was, so I know she knows the score. People don't tend to pull their biggest stunts in front of everyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 8:03:37 GMT -5
Everyone in the industry knew for sure and he got a pass for years as he was the most high profile of a small number who'd push Strong Female Leads. Much like the recent developments with woman's wrestling or even black leads in films the suits were unsure if it would draw and once proven wrong once someone had rolled the dice decided to go all in so SFLs are ten a penny these days making the likes of Whedon irrelevant and exposure of their skeletons inevitable after a while...surprised it's taken this long.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
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Posts: 11,445
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Post by mattperiolat on Feb 12, 2021 8:22:03 GMT -5
Didn’t condemn Joss either, not by name or disavow. She blamed a system of sexism and abuse. Well... benefit of doubt, she truly doesn’t know or wasn’t aware.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 12, 2021 8:23:37 GMT -5
To be fair, it might have not been anything sexual, but more a case of Joss venting his anger issues on the weakest, youngest member of the cast (esp. since at that point, SMG was pretty much too big of a star to get yelled at). (but let's face it, it's probably sexual) Yeah. I’m seeing a lot of folks online using that defense without the bottom part but it feels pretty clear when you tie together the ex-wife’s statements with their experiences they were sexually harassed.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 12, 2021 12:01:27 GMT -5
Michelle Trachtenberg has posted on Instagram there was a rule on set that Joss wasn't allowed alone in a room with her. So gross.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Feb 12, 2021 13:27:48 GMT -5
Yeah... if I had to guess it's this. At the time, Dawn wasn't really well liked especially at first. I could see Whedon taking it out on the actress, since it couldn't be his writing that people disliked. combined with the fact that she was a teenager at the time and an easy target for a shithead bully since he knew she likely wouldn't do anything to him. I’m actually really interested in this, mainly because I know Whedon wasn’t exactly omnipresent on Buffy or Angel during their sixth and third seasons respectively because of Firefly. And we’ve focused on the actors, rightly so, but it’s fair to say producers and writers took some heat too. Thinking about Marti Noxon in particular suddenly as she just got pilloried for how bad season six of Buffy was and that was just by fans. But, I don’t want to madly start throwing accusations without knowing more. You just never know how bad things are until you know to look. And within the Angel community, any issues were laid at the feet of Joss, and not the rest of the writers. Angel fans realized the show was better if Joss left it alone, and allowed his writers to do their work. Fans saw the work that the writers had done with Cordelia, Wesley, and Lilah, and realized that Joss was the cause of most quality issues. Didn’t condemn Joss either, not by name or disavow. She blamed a system of sexism and abuse. Well... benefit of doubt, she truly doesn’t know or wasn’t aware. Given that Dushku isn't somebody that bites their tongue when it comes to abuse, I believe her when she says she wasn't aware.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Feb 12, 2021 13:30:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I think like all bullies, he only targets those he thinks he can get away with attacking.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,987
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Post by salz4life on Feb 12, 2021 14:17:37 GMT -5
Michelle Trachtenberg has posted on Instagram there was a rule on set that Joss wasn't allowed alone in a room with her. So gross. If that was a "rule", I'm assuming higher-ups knew. That being the case, how does someone in power not step in and nip this in the bud. I already know the answer..... $$$$$$$
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2021 14:25:13 GMT -5
Whedon's extremely precious about his work and is known to blow his top about it. He pinned James Marsters to a wall and screamed in his face because his character got too popular for Whedon's liking. Given Dawn wasn't exactly received by the fandom with open arms, him taking his anger about that out on Trachtenberg is not beyond the realms of possibility. Yeah... if I had to guess it's this. At the time, Dawn wasn't really well liked especially at first. I could see Whedon taking it out on the actress, since it couldn't be his writing that people disliked. combined with the fact that she was a teenager at the time and an easy target for a shithead bully since he knew she likely wouldn't do anything to him. I think it's also that she was already a veteran in the industry and well-known from her time on Pete And Pete. She'd be more likely to walk and to make it a scandal than a lot of other teenage actresses. Point is, I think the extra protection wasn't because she was vulnerable, but the opposite. Which makes me shudder about the inexperienced actresses who WERE more vulnerable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 14:39:51 GMT -5
So the guy who claims to be a feminist but makes shows about hot young women is actually a pervert?
Shocking.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2021 14:44:11 GMT -5
So the guy who claims to be a feminist but makes shows about hot young women is actually a pervert? Shocking. It's not shocking that Whedon is a shitheel, but "makes shows/movies that feature attractive women in lead roles" isn't one of the reasons why.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2021 14:44:33 GMT -5
So the guy who claims to be a feminist but makes shows about hot young women is actually a pervert? Shocking. Hesitantly and respectfully: Can we try not to spread this exact message? Regardless of what anyone thinks about feminism, I don't think it's useful to suggest either that 1. His shithead behavior would somehow be less egregious or notable if he wasn't a self-proclaimed feminist, or 2. That a man self-identifying as a feminist is inherently suspicious.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 12, 2021 14:51:01 GMT -5
Michelle Trachtenberg has posted on Instagram there was a rule on set that Joss wasn't allowed alone in a room with her. So gross. If that was a "rule", I'm assuming higher-ups knew. That being the case, how does someone in power not step in and nip this in the bud. I already know the answer..... $$$$$$$ Remember The WB did not renew after season 5. Now they kept working with Whedon on Angel so they didn't end their relationship with him but I wonder if that might have been done to distance themselves as much as they could? Just a theory.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 14:53:08 GMT -5
So the guy who claims to be a feminist but makes shows about hot young women is actually a pervert? Shocking. Hesitantly and respectfully: Can we try not to spread this exact message? Regardless of what anyone thinks about feminism, I don't think it's useful to suggest either that 1. His shithead behavior would somehow be less egregious or notable if he wasn't a self-proclaimed feminist, or 2. That a man self-identifying as a feminist is inherently suspicious. Man identifying as a feminist is not suspicious. Man indentifying as a feminist that surrounds himself with barely legal young women is suspicious.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2021 14:54:19 GMT -5
Hesitantly and respectfully: Can we try not to spread this exact message? Regardless of what anyone thinks about feminism, I don't think it's useful to suggest either that 1. His shithead behavior would somehow be less egregious or notable if he wasn't a self-proclaimed feminist, or 2. That a man self-identifying as a feminist is inherently suspicious. Man identifying as a feminist is not suspicious. Man indentifying as a feminist that surrounds himself with barely legal young women is suspicious. ....and it's be LESS suspicious if he didn't identify as a feminist?
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,987
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Post by salz4life on Feb 12, 2021 14:57:52 GMT -5
If that was a "rule", I'm assuming higher-ups knew. That being the case, how does someone in power not step in and nip this in the bud. I already know the answer..... $$$$$$$ Remember The WB did not renew after season 5. Now they kept working with Whedon on Angel so they didn't end their relationship with him but I wonder if that might have been done to distance themselves as much as they could? Just a theory. Good point......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 14:57:54 GMT -5
Man identifying as a feminist is not suspicious. Man indentifying as a feminist that surrounds himself with barely legal young women is suspicious. ....and it's be LESS suspicious if he didn't identify as a feminist? No. You are stretching as hard as you can to read something into my words that isn't there.
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Post by grunt on Feb 12, 2021 15:44:05 GMT -5
If that was a "rule", I'm assuming higher-ups knew. That being the case, how does someone in power not step in and nip this in the bud. I already know the answer..... $$$$$$$ Remember The WB did not renew after season 5. Now they kept working with Whedon on Angel so they didn't end their relationship with him but I wonder if that might have been done to distance themselves as much as they could? Just a theory. Nah, Buffy leaving the WB was strictly a matter of $$$ : the network was hemorrhaging money and wasn't willing to pay more for shows that a) weren't Warner-produced (both Buffy and Roswell did the WB to UPN switch that year, and both were Fox-produced), b) underperformed (Roswell was considered a disappointment, ratings-wise), and c) were just getting too expensive (Buffy had just reached the syndication threshold of 100 episodes with its season 5 finale, and that triggered renegociations and a raise of the show's licence fees). Meanwhile, UPN was trying to establish its new rebranding by acquiring flagship programs, and they just easily outbid WB.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2021 16:26:52 GMT -5
....and it's be LESS suspicious if he didn't identify as a feminist? No. You are stretching as hard as you can to read something into my words that isn't there. Nah, what's there still doesn't work. It's show business; most of the people in it are on some level conventionally attractive, so a guy wanting to make shows or movies with female leads will likely end up having a lot of conventionally attractive women around the set. There's nothing in that that implies something negative going on, or reason to not be surprised if a story comes out that they behaved poorly. The reason it's not a shock with Whedon is that there are lot of bad stories/vibes out there about him already.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 12, 2021 17:20:43 GMT -5
Also I don't think they're saying he was a pervert, more an agressive bully. Though that Trachtenberg bit is...ugh.
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