New GHC Heavyweight Champion

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

Feb 12, 2021 18:34:07 GMT -5 Starshine said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:29:29 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Figured everyone would hate this. Mutoh is doing this to put Kiyomiya over the same way he did Tanahashi when he was IWGP champion.


Hilarious that anyone would question him at this point.

This isn't a great take considering your point of reference is over 10 years old.

Dude's 58. I question it.

My point is it worked once. Why wouldn’t it work again?


Mutoh is a legend in Japan. He’s beloved. People follow who he endorses and puts over. More fans will see him put Kiyomiya over and think “Yeah. That guy is the ACE. Mutoh endorses him. Clearly we can believe in him too.”


Yes he’s old. Yes he’s broken down. But his name carries weight. It means more to have him crown someone than it would be for that person to get it many other ways. Especially since NOAH is in a very similar position that New Japan was in 2008.

[Starshine]

Feb 12, 2021 18:39:18 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:34:07 GMT -5 Starshine said:

This isn't a great take considering your point of reference is over 10 years old.

Dude's 58. I question it.

My point is it worked once. Why wouldn’t it work again?


Mutoh is a legend in Japan. He’s beloved. People follow who he endorses and puts over. More fans will see him put Kiyomiya over and think “Yeah. That guy is the ACE. Mutoh endorses him. Clearly we can believe in him too.”


Yes he’s old. Yes he’s broken down. But his name carries weight. It means more to have him crown someone than it would be for that person to get it many other ways. Especially since NOAH is in a very similar position that New Japan was in 2008.

Because it hasn't worked since. WRESTLE-1 was a thing, and is probably closer to what NOAH is now market share wise than New Japan. They tried so hard to make KAI a thing, and beating Mutoh for the belt didn't do jack, and that was 5 years ago.

They had a good thing going with Shiozaki, and a story for Kiyomiya to overcome him and prove he's the real guy in NOAH right now. It's a better story than this wishy-washy 50/50 booking shit with Mutoh. But hey, maybe it draws huge for them, maybe, but not likely in the middle of a pandemic, but unless this somehow marks some sort of improvement business wise, what's the point? If the win is so important, they could have Kiyomiya beat him anytime, they don't need to sabotage a years worth of main event booking to get there.

[Natural Born Farmer]

Feb 12, 2021 18:39:18 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:34:07 GMT -5 Starshine said:

This isn't a great take considering your point of reference is over 10 years old.

Dude's 58. I question it.

My point is it worked once. Why wouldn’t it work again?


Mutoh is a legend in Japan. He’s beloved. People follow who he endorses and puts over. More fans will see him put Kiyomiya over and think “Yeah. That guy is the ACE. Mutoh endorses him. Clearly we can believe in him too.”


Yes he’s old. Yes he’s broken down. But his name carries weight. It means more to have him crown someone than it would be for that person to get it many other ways. Especially since NOAH is in a very similar position that New Japan was in 2008.

I'm not super up on Japanese promotions, but let's speculate...

Suppose The Undertaker came back and won the WWE title.

Then he lost it to some younger guy.

The young guy arguably got the rub but... come on...

[chrom]

Feb 12, 2021 18:53:04 GMT -5 Starshine said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:39:18 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

My point is it worked once. Why wouldn’t it work again?


Mutoh is a legend in Japan. He’s beloved. People follow who he endorses and puts over. More fans will see him put Kiyomiya over and think “Yeah. That guy is the ACE. Mutoh endorses him. Clearly we can believe in him too.”


Yes he’s old. Yes he’s broken down. But his name carries weight. It means more to have him crown someone than it would be for that person to get it many other ways. Especially since NOAH is in a very similar position that New Japan was in 2008.

Because it hasn't worked since. WRESTLE-1 was a thing, and is probably closer to what NOAH is now market share wise than New Japan. They tried so hard to make KAI a thing, and beating Mutoh for the belt didn't do jack, and that was 5 years ago.

They had a good thing going with Shiozaki, and a story for Kiyomiya to overcome him and prove he's the real guy in NOAH right now. It's a better story than this wishy-washy 50/50 booking shit with Mutoh. But hey, maybe it draws huge for them, maybe, but not likely in the middle of a pandemic, but unless this somehow marks some sort of improvement business wise, what's the point? If the win is so important, they could have Kiyomiya beat him anytime, they don't need to sabotage a years worth of main event booking to get there.

W1 could never figure out its Ace or identify. First it was Sanada, then Kai, then Manabu Soya, then Daiki Inabi

[Fundertaker]

Feb 12, 2021 19:06:19 GMT -5 chrom said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:53:04 GMT -5 Starshine said:

Because it hasn't worked since. WRESTLE-1 was a thing, and is probably closer to what NOAH is now market share wise than New Japan. They tried so hard to make KAI a thing, and beating Mutoh for the belt didn't do jack, and that was 5 years ago.

They had a good thing going with Shiozaki, and a story for Kiyomiya to overcome him and prove he's the real guy in NOAH right now. It's a better story than this wishy-washy 50/50 booking shit with Mutoh. But hey, maybe it draws huge for them, maybe, but not likely in the middle of a pandemic, but unless this somehow marks some sort of improvement business wise, what's the point? If the win is so important, they could have Kiyomiya beat him anytime, they don't need to sabotage a years worth of main event booking to get there.

W1 could never figure out its Ace or identify. First it was Sanada, then Kai, then Manabu Soya, then Daiki Inabi

Yeah, WRESTLE-1 had no commitment to its aces, so it seemed more like a revolving door of people trying to establish themselves as such but with no direction whatsoever. Which is pretty much WRESTLE-1 in a nutshell.

NOAH has been puting Kaito Kiyomiya as the man to follow for years. I went to the Misawa memorial show in Korakuen Hall in 2018. I had seen a couple of matches of Kaito when he was just starting. Jump to this moment, he comes out in dark green, has the Kobashi high spirit underdog storytelling down, loses to Kenoh but gets a good showing. All I could think of was "This guy is gonna be the ace of this company". Fast forward a few months and he wins the title and gets a good title reign, but it was only against regulars until losing to Shiosaki who was the only big name credible regular left for him to beat. Now he has the chance to win against Muto and get put over by all the old cogers one after another until his singles matches with the regular guys are fresh again (although, hopefully, they keep him and Kenoh apart for a long time, as that match is getting Tanahashi/Nakamura and Tanahashi/Okada level of repetition).

[Starshine]

Feb 12, 2021 19:06:19 GMT -5 chrom said:

Feb 12, 2021 18:53:04 GMT -5 Starshine said:

Because it hasn't worked since. WRESTLE-1 was a thing, and is probably closer to what NOAH is now market share wise than New Japan. They tried so hard to make KAI a thing, and beating Mutoh for the belt didn't do jack, and that was 5 years ago.

They had a good thing going with Shiozaki, and a story for Kiyomiya to overcome him and prove he's the real guy in NOAH right now. It's a better story than this wishy-washy 50/50 booking shit with Mutoh. But hey, maybe it draws huge for them, maybe, but not likely in the middle of a pandemic, but unless this somehow marks some sort of improvement business wise, what's the point? If the win is so important, they could have Kiyomiya beat him anytime, they don't need to sabotage a years worth of main event booking to get there.

W1 could never figure out its Ace or identify. First it was Sanada, then Kai, then Manabu Soya, then Daiki Inabi

Right, but KAI was the guy they gave the Mutoh win over, and the guy they kept going back to until they finally threw their hands up in defeat. He also got the Hideki Suzuki win, which completely backfired. Everything they tried to do with KAI completely flopped, but this isn't even about WRESTLE-1's shoddy booking, so much as beating Mutoh is not the valid justification for throwing out better long term storytelling in lieu of some vague notion of getting the torch passed by a geriatric. Mind you, this is also the same kid who's got a year + long title reign under his belt already. Yes, he's grown a whole lot since, but the better story is obviously the kid beating the guy who took his spot, not the broken down outsider who's he's already dropped a fall to.

What are we doing here? Do we want NOAH to make a star, or do we want them to fall back to their old bad habits which put them in the shitty position to begin with?

[Balesirion]

Why not have Kiyomiya just beat Shiozaki for the title, and then successfully defend against Mutoh? That seems like a much more logical way of arriving at the same place.

[Mozenrath]

I wonder a bit if this is a "he's never done it, so let's have him do it", with Mutoh being the GHC Heavyweight Champion, plus a desire to try to pull in people familiar with Mutoh who might not be paying as much attention to NOAH.

Like, I get that both of those have some validity, but that doesn't mean I necessarily think this is a good idea. It made more sense when ROH did this with PCO, though, I imagine the goal is similar. Quick comeback story, but it's not likely going to last long.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Mutoh vs Goldberg

They both punch each other and explode into pieces immediately

[67 more]

As far as I can tell, this makes Muto the second oldest world champion in history. He's beaten Terry Funk who was 52 with the ECW title but falls short to Vince at 61, also with the ECW title.

[AwamoriRock]

Mutoh the top champ in NOAH and Akiyama now the top champ in DDT.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 14, 2021 3:58:08 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

Mutoh the top champ in NOAH and Akiyama now the top champ in DDT.

Eddie Kingston still wants Jun Akiyama. It's his dream match.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

This is a big nope

This is like having Flair beat Randy Orton in order to drop the title to Cena at Mania during his retirement angle

[Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED!]

Feb 14, 2021 4:35:21 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Feb 14, 2021 3:58:08 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

Mutoh the top champ in NOAH and Akiyama now the top champ in DDT.

Eddie Kingston still wants Jun Akiyama. It's his dream match.

I think anybody who enjoys that style of wrestling has that as a dream match. I would love to see that one.

[AwamoriRock]

In an update on bald old guy champions, Mutoh has officially signed with NOAH and Akiyama has signed with DDT as both a wrestler and their new head coach.

[Facetious]

I, for one, fully welcome our no-knee, Tenga endorsed legend as GHC champion.

[chrom]

Speaking of 50+ guys holding belts, Yoshinari Ogawa is one half of the Jr tag champs

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Feb 15, 2021 3:22:51 GMT -5 AwamoriRock said:

In an update on bald old guy champions, Mutoh has officially signed with NOAH and Akiyama has signed with DDT as both a wrestler and their new head coach.

Mutoh: I want SANADA

NOAH: Umm..... I think that man wants to stay far away from you 

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

I'd be lying if I said I followed Japanese wrestling closely right now, but is there any chance Mutoh actually beats Kaito in his first defense? Is Kaito vs. Mutoh going to do bigger business for them right now than Go vs. Kaito?