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Post by wildojinx on May 19, 2021 12:32:27 GMT -5
Of course, the screwjob was a real thing, but was this basically the Vince McMahon character turning heel? Even the Bret screwed Bret interview had more of a heelish tone to it. Of course, the official heel turn was when he admitted he didnt want Austin winning the title at WM14, but was he a heel prior to that?
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Post by jason1980s on May 19, 2021 12:54:36 GMT -5
I think in his mind he was still the good guy in the screwjob situation when he did the Jim Ross interview even though he looks very much like a heel. He comes off much like he did in the Bruno/Larry King interview which was also very heelish. It amazes me he was so good at playing the good guy on TV for so long.
He struck gold with no intention of doing so and things just steamrolled from there but I think once Austin was starting to hit the main event scene Vince had no choice but to go full blown heel. Probably the turning point was the scuffle with him and Austin during the Mike Tyson in ring incident.
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Post by Aceorton on May 19, 2021 13:39:50 GMT -5
I get the sense that Vince, when he's not purposely going over the top as Mr. McMahon, thinks he comes across as a trustworthy babyface in general and is genuinely bewildered that people get a scummy vibe from him.
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Post by Hypnosis on May 19, 2021 14:02:30 GMT -5
I get the sense that Vince, when he's not purposely going over the top as Mr. McMahon, thinks he comes across as a trustworthy babyface in general and is genuinely bewildered that people get a scummy vibe from him. Oblivious heel Vince is the best version of him because it's more subtle. "LETHAL DOSE OF POISONNNN" Vince can either be funny or uncomfortable to watch. |
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on May 19, 2021 14:06:28 GMT -5
I get the sense that Vince, when he's not purposely going over the top as Mr. McMahon, thinks he comes across as a trustworthy babyface in general and is genuinely bewildered that people get a scummy vibe from him. The mark of the true carny is that he thinks other people don't think of him as a carny. |
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on May 19, 2021 14:08:48 GMT -5
He was trending that direction, but I consider his heel turn to be on Raw the night after Mania 14, when he vents about Austin ruining the WWF's relationship with Mike Tyson, and starting the feud that defined the Attitude Era.
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Post by greyfmdan on May 19, 2021 21:49:29 GMT -5
Was it known/planned that Vince was stepping away from the commentary desk to become more of an on-screen character? The screwjob & subsequent events made an appropriate transition point, of course. But it seems like too abrupt of an event to have been the reason he stepped away from the desk if that wasn’t already the plan.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 19, 2021 21:53:08 GMT -5
Was it known/planned that Vince was stepping away from the commentary desk to become more of an on-screen character? The screwjob & subsequent events made an appropriate transition point, of course. But it seems like too abrupt of an event to have been the reason he stepped away from the desk if that wasn’t already the plan. Given the "McMemphis" angle, I think he intended to eventually be an onscreen heel figure, he was just testdriving it in Memphis. The Screwjob was a fertile ground of material to draw from, but I think it was eventually going to come to this point regardless. |
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Post by horsemen4ever on May 19, 2021 21:53:15 GMT -5
Maybe in Canada, but in the U.S., it was a heel vs heel match. So kind of hard to turn heel when you screw a heel out of the title.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 19, 2021 22:59:31 GMT -5
Maybe in Canada, but in the U.S., it was a heel vs heel match. So kind of hard to turn heel when you screw a heel out of the title. Not necessarily. I think that there are certain things that are seen as beyond the pale, like Austin vs Bret previously where the heel Austin's tenacity won people over, and Bret came off as cruel even as a face. |
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 19, 2021 23:31:07 GMT -5
He thought he was going to come across as a face when he did his first few interviews on RAW after it happened. He realized it wasn't working and leaned into being a heel soon after.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 12:10:26 GMT -5
I get the sense that Vince, when he's not purposely going over the top as Mr. McMahon, thinks he comes across as a trustworthy babyface in general and is genuinely bewildered that people get a scummy vibe from him. The mark of the true carny is that he thinks other people don't think of him as a carny. I have a theory that all of Vince's behavior stems from the fact that he's a carny who wants to be a respected businessman and is desperate to do whatever he has to do to achieve that even though everyone else knows that will never happen and he was always be "the wrestling guy". |
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Post by greyfmdan on May 20, 2021 12:24:23 GMT -5
Was it known/planned that Vince was stepping away from the commentary desk to become more of an on-screen character? The screwjob & subsequent events made an appropriate transition point, of course. But it seems like too abrupt of an event to have been the reason he stepped away from the desk if that wasn’t already the plan. Given the "McMemphis" angle, I think he intended to eventually be an onscreen heel figure, he was just testdriving it in Memphis. The Screwjob was a fertile ground of material to draw from, but I think it was eventually going to come to this point regardless. Fair enough. I’ve not really watched the McMemphis stuff, but maybe I should check it out. So then, was the plan always for the newly heel-turned Vince to cross swords with Austin? Obviously they were building Austin to be a big star by that time. But was Austin/McMahon always the endgame, or just something they stumbled onto through a perfect storm of events? (That’s one thing cool about this place. Having been in & out as a viewer over the years, I can get a little history from folks in the know where my knowledge is lacking.) |
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Renslayer
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Post by Renslayer on May 20, 2021 18:16:41 GMT -5
feels like we were heading that direction even before the screwjob. i always pinpoint his heel journey at the msg raw when austin stunned him. that speech he gave stone cold was paternalistic as hell and gave off asshole boss vibes
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Post by johnnyk9 on May 22, 2021 20:22:24 GMT -5
His kayfabe heel turn started in Memphis in 1993
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on May 22, 2021 22:17:15 GMT -5
The mark of the true carny is that he thinks other people don't think of him as a carny. I have a theory that all of Vince's behavior stems from the fact that he's a carny who wants to be a respected businessman and is desperate to do whatever he has to do to achieve that even though everyone else knows that will never happen and he was always be "the wrestling guy". It explains his relationship with another heir to his dad's NYC-centric business that was turned into an international empire of smoke and mirrors throughout the 80s and 90s. |
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Post by jason1980s on May 22, 2021 22:36:29 GMT -5
I have a theory that all of Vince's behavior stems from the fact that he's a carny who wants to be a respected businessman and is desperate to do whatever he has to do to achieve that even though everyone else knows that will never happen and he was always be "the wrestling guy". He is the most successful wrestling promoter/owner ever, no one will ever get close but it was never good enough for him. Just like Hogan being the most famous wrestlers was never good enough. They both always wanted more and kept going from outside business venture failure to failure. Vince's obituary will almost completely be wrestling related and the parts that not will show his failures. |
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on May 24, 2021 5:14:43 GMT -5
IMO, Vince didn’t officially go full heel until he picked Dude Love as Stone Cold’s opponent. Up to then he was acting more and more like a jerk, but his grievance felt legit because of Stone Cold antagonizing him.
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Post by eJm on May 24, 2021 6:02:35 GMT -5
He thought he was going to come across as a face when he did his first few interviews on RAW after it happened. He realized it wasn't working and leaned into being a heel soon after. Yeah, he likely felt he was going to get sympathy for what happened and that very obviously didn't happen so it set up the slow burn to the heel turn. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 24, 2021 14:32:25 GMT -5
I think, if we want to pinpoint an actual specific heel-turn moment for Vince, it's on the road to Wrestlemania when he's asked during an in-ring interview if he'd like to see Steve Austin as Champion and Vince says "it's not just a no, it's an OH HELL NO."
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