Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Jun 5, 2021 0:52:00 GMT -5
From Litdown to Littledown
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 5, 2021 0:56:12 GMT -5
2016 Litdown had way more personality and it felt fresh, just new. This is a roster that makes a brand right here. I chalk Litdown up to two very important factors; format and stars. For format, it just wasn't being written like Raw was. It felt fresh because Ryan Ward and Road Dogg were able to do stuff with its thin roster and with its overall presentation that let it become something different. They added Talking Smack and let people go onto it to cut some really amazing promos that helped sell the stories they built. But then backing that up was how they elevated a lot of people to the big times. Ambrose got one over on both other Shield members and took the title over with him, proving he could absolutely hang in the main event as hard as already-coronated Roman and Seth could. AJ continued his ascent, taking Cena down and then pivoting into his Ambrose feud, and locking himself in as a WWE hall of famer easily. Becky broke through in what wasn't yet her huge star making shot, but was at the time a huge feel good moment. Hell, even Slater and Rhyno getting over and getting the first tag title win was a big, happy culmination to a story that was over with the fans. The format felt fresh, the faces felt fresh, and everything had an air to it of being an interesting show that was still very much WWE, but was notably different in format, structure, and story progression from Raw.
I think one of the interesting things in hindsight is how brief Litdown was. 2017 Smackdown on the whole got pretty bad, and for its strengths, the 2016 one was starting to show warning signs as early as November. Heath and Rhyno didn't do much after winning the titles, Miz/Dolph after a strong feud leading up to No Mercy ended up being padded out with Spirit Squad callbacks, and although the match at TLC was still strong, AJ/Dean turned into a vehicle for James Ellsworth for a while there. Even though in some ways it proved beneficial later, Becky's reign got marred a little by her missing No Mercy and not really having any proper title defenses.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 5, 2021 1:07:09 GMT -5
I chalk Litdown up to two very important factors; format and stars. For format, it just wasn't being written like Raw was. It felt fresh because Ryan Ward and Road Dogg were able to do stuff with its thin roster and with its overall presentation that let it become something different. They added Talking Smack and let people go onto it to cut some really amazing promos that helped sell the stories they built. But then backing that up was how they elevated a lot of people to the big times. Ambrose got one over on both other Shield members and took the title over with him, proving he could absolutely hang in the main event as hard as already-coronated Roman and Seth could. AJ continued his ascent, taking Cena down and then pivoting into his Ambrose feud, and locking himself in as a WWE hall of famer easily. Becky broke through in what wasn't yet her huge star making shot, but was at the time a huge feel good moment. Hell, even Slater and Rhyno getting over and getting the first tag title win was a big, happy culmination to a story that was over with the fans. The format felt fresh, the faces felt fresh, and everything had an air to it of being an interesting show that was still very much WWE, but was notably different in format, structure, and story progression from Raw. I think one of the interesting things in hindsight is how brief Litdown was. 2017 Smackdown on the whole got pretty bad, and for its strengths, the 2016 one was starting to show warning signs as early as November. Heath and Rhyno didn't do much after winning the titles, Miz/Dolph after a strong feud leading up to No Mercy ended up being padded out with Spirit Squad callbacks, and although the match at TLC was still strong, AJ/Dean turned into a vehicle for James Ellsworth for a while there. Even though in some ways it proved beneficial later, Becky's reign got marred a little by her missing No Mercy and not really having any proper title defenses.
Not to mention that them going with hot hands like Slater/Rhyno and the Wyatt Family (with Orton in it) kinda left American Alpha out in the cold through no fault of their own.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 5, 2021 1:41:09 GMT -5
They dont even have Taz to shout "WE NEED SOME KIDS!!" This is all on them. For Smackdown being their highest rated show now by a wide margin it's becoming more samey than RAW even is right now. Like the shit feels like live reruns. I get they're probably waiting until touring starts again but goodness sakes take some RAW Jobbers or people who aren't doing anything and just USE THEM or something to at least make it feel like there are more than a dozen people on the show... which there literally only are, OR LESS.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 5, 2021 2:19:19 GMT -5
I think one of the interesting things in hindsight is how brief Litdown was. 2017 Smackdown on the whole got pretty bad, and for its strengths, the 2016 one was starting to show warning signs as early as November. Heath and Rhyno didn't do much after winning the titles, Miz/Dolph after a strong feud leading up to No Mercy ended up being padded out with Spirit Squad callbacks, and although the match at TLC was still strong, AJ/Dean turned into a vehicle for James Ellsworth for a while there. Even though in some ways it proved beneficial later, Becky's reign got marred a little by her missing No Mercy and not really having any proper title defenses.
Not to mention that them going with hot hands like Slater/Rhyno and the Wyatt Family (with Orton in it) kinda left American Alpha out in the cold through no fault of their own. American Alpha got left out in the cold by the booking, frankly. Those guys got the titles before they'd had a single second of promo time when they were both able to get over as more than just "the good match wrestleguys" with personality they never got to show on Smackdown. They weren't going to fare any better if they won the tournament and got the belts earlier, the audience still had no idea who they were.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 2:29:50 GMT -5
I'd waaaaaay rather they fix the brand split than undo it. It's a good idea to create their own alternative product, it's just always WWE eventually settles into letting it fall apart into a glob of both shows feeling the same and stops caring about having proper divisions. Either way it's still better to keep shit separate; if you don't like a guy on top it cuts down on how much you have to see him, it creates more opportunities for people to rise up the ranks and be established, and it helps avoid situations like how if it weren't going on presently then it'd be both shows suffocating under Roman just crushing everyone in his path and constantly hanging out with his cousins instead of just one of them. Not to mention that them going with hot hands like Slater/Rhyno and the Wyatt Family (with Orton in it) kinda left American Alpha out in the cold through no fault of their own. American Alpha got left out in the cold by the booking, frankly. Those guys got the titles before they'd had a single second of promo time when they were both able to get over as more than just "the good match wrestleguys" with personality they never got to show on Smackdown. They weren't going to fare any better if they won the tournament and got the belts earlier, the audience still had no idea who they were. Honestly I'm pretty firmly on the side of, "Maybe American Alpha just wasn't actually that good," at this point, partially due to how dull they were on SmackDown, partially because after they split up I don't think either one of them ever did anything that entertained me.
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Post by avenger on Jun 5, 2021 4:19:14 GMT -5
It feels like they're setting up the first night with a crowd to be one where they debut some NXT callups.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 5, 2021 4:51:51 GMT -5
At this point you have to wonder if vince and Co care any more. They haven't cared in years, thats been clear.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2021 9:09:19 GMT -5
2016 Litdown had way more personality and it felt fresh, just new. This is a roster that makes a brand right here. I chalk Litdown up to two very important factors; format and stars. For format, it just wasn't being written like Raw was. It felt fresh because Ryan Ward and Road Dogg were able to do stuff with its thin roster and with its overall presentation that let it become something different. They added Talking Smack and let people go onto it to cut some really amazing promos that helped sell the stories they built. But then backing that up was how they elevated a lot of people to the big times. Ambrose got one over on both other Shield members and took the title over with him, proving he could absolutely hang in the main event as hard as already-coronated Roman and Seth could. AJ continued his ascent, taking Cena down and then pivoting into his Ambrose feud, and locking himself in as a WWE hall of famer easily. Becky broke through in what wasn't yet her huge star making shot, but was at the time a huge feel good moment. Hell, even Slater and Rhyno getting over and getting the first tag title win was a big, happy culmination to a story that was over with the fans. The format felt fresh, the faces felt fresh, and everything had an air to it of being an interesting show that was still very much WWE, but was notably different in format, structure, and story progression from Raw. Agreed. I think Smackdown now still has that same vibe and is neck and neck with Dynamite, if not ahead, as the best weekly TV show in 2021. Could be the 2 hour format, but Raw can really be so much more of a drag than any other show.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 5, 2021 9:12:06 GMT -5
Looks like we need another SUPERSTAR SHAKEUP! Beter yet...STOP THE DAMN BRAND SPLIT.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2021 9:12:57 GMT -5
Looks like we need another SUPERSTAR SHAKEUP! Beter yet...STOP THE DAMN BRAND SPLIT. That’s a terrible idea. Do you really want to see the same storylines play out over 5 HOURS per week? The brand split is necessary.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 5, 2021 9:15:06 GMT -5
Beter yet...STOP THE DAMN BRAND SPLIT. That’s a terrible idea. Do you really want to see the same storylines play out over 5 HOURS per week? The brand split is necessary. Hmmmmmm.... Well I guess for the women maybe. Weren't the WTTC dual-branded? As the WD is suffering in particular, perhaps those should be dual branded at least. Of course, NXT or developmental callups could help too.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 5, 2021 9:20:05 GMT -5
The 2016 brand extension left Smackdown with a similarly small active roster and the shows were great for a while, same as Smackdown is now. 2016 Litdown had way more personality and it felt fresh, just new. This is a roster that makes a brand right here. 2016 Smackdown Live was so werid because they tried fresh things and they all worked Dean as the main face?Worked Amazingly. Focus on the undercard charismatic tag teams?Worked? Ziggler's push?Worked Amazing promos with freedom with Talking Smack?Worked Hell,Ellsworth ,they took a shot at a nobody everyone loved and it WORKED Like it all worked and it actually gained ratings at a good rate Yet Vince chose to ignore all that and go back to the lifeless , overdone and sterilized format he loves.Like everything about it just absolutely was fresh,good and it was proven it worked,it boggles the mind.
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gl83
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Post by gl83 on Jun 5, 2021 9:36:06 GMT -5
That’s a terrible idea. Do you really want to see the same storylines play out over 5 HOURS per week? The brand split is necessary. Hmmmmmm.... Well I guess for the women maybe. Weren't the WTTC dual-branded? As the WD is suffering in particular, perhaps those should be dual branded at least. Of course, NXT or developmental callups could help too. At the very least, the brand restrictions should be lifted for the women and the tag team division. Although, I do see why some would want it completely gone since the main event title picture is kinda lacking in regards to depth on both shows.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 5, 2021 10:32:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if they were ending the brand split between Raw and Smackdown. They should, but I hope Smackdown doesn't become a Raw recap show with rematches happening on Monday the next week yet again.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jun 5, 2021 10:53:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if they were ending the brand split between Raw and Smackdown. They should, but I hope Smackdown doesn't become a Raw recap show with rematches happening on Monday the next week yet again. Not as long as Fox airs the show. They’re not paying big money to have Raw reruns.
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Post by RI Richmark on Jun 5, 2021 10:53:29 GMT -5
Beter yet...STOP THE DAMN BRAND SPLIT. That’s a terrible idea. Do you really want to see the same storylines play out over 5 HOURS per week? The brand split is necessary. Then instead install a policy that no wrestler can appear on both shows in the same week.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2021 10:54:37 GMT -5
That’s a terrible idea. Do you really want to see the same storylines play out over 5 HOURS per week? The brand split is necessary. Then instead install a policy that no wrestler can appear on both shows in the same week. Or just keep the brand split at that point and do a draft to shake up the feuds.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 5, 2021 11:20:18 GMT -5
It’s easier when a booker has a roster of at least 40 to 50 active workers to position (say about 25-28 dudes and 12-15 ladies on average, accounting for the overabundance of men in the business).
But Litdown was, well, lit because the writers added extra care to each individual story, so they all felt important in their own right. The rise of Ambrose, Cena and AJ’s rivalry, Becky’s quest and Slater/Rhyno were all treated like big deals, so there was little “filler” on 2016 Smackdown.
That’s different from Russo’s brand of “everyone needs a story, bro!” booking, because his strategy was to give the younger talent anything that popped into his head without proofreading and with little to no feedback, regardless if the idea was terrible or not.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Jun 5, 2021 11:37:11 GMT -5
It’s easier when a booker has a roster of at least 40 to 50 active workers to position (say about 25-28 dudes and 12-15 ladies on average, accounting for the overabundance of men in the business). But Litdown was, well, lit because the writers added extra care to each individual story, so they all felt important in their own right. The rise of Ambrose, Cena and AJ’s rivalry, Becky’s quest and Slater/Rhyno were all treated like big deals, so there was little “filler” on 2016 Smackdown. That’s different from Russo’s brand of “everyone needs a story, bro!” booking, because his strategy was to give the younger talent anything that popped into his head without proofreading and with little to no feedback, regardless if the idea was terrible or not. I'd play "Becky's Quest" if it were a Zelda-like game.
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