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Post by Milkman Norm on Jun 15, 2021 11:49:36 GMT -5
Being a kid I hard enough time caring about Ric Flair. I imagine most kids thought the same thing. He looked to be about 60-70 in 1990. He's what I would called a WCW guy and in the 1990s WCW guys wouldn't do well in WWF for the most part. I think it's been even mentioned before that most WWF fans saw WCW as the secondary league so Flair coming in on top and winning the title so quickly probably didn't set well with fans. Some of his run was also bad booking, WWF didn't really know how to book him plus the flop of the Hogan house show matches. Some think the buildup to the Macho Man WM 8 match was great but even as a kid I didn't get it. I know "stuff happens" but I don't see Flair and Elizabeth's lifes/careers intersecting before 1991 to where they could have had a long time relationship. I've said it before but one of the reasons he flopped in WWF imo was he viewed his role as a heel in was to give the face the vast majority of the match, bump like crazy & back off before cheating to win (if he was booked to win). It worked in Crockett because he got his heat through his promos or Horsemen beat downs. Without those factors if you didn't know who Flair was he came off as a glorified Honky Tonk Man.
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Square
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Post by Square on Jun 15, 2021 11:59:10 GMT -5
Maybe put him in a 6 man with The Bushwhackers at best, let him do the Easy chant, belly splash in the corner yay Big Daddy
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 15, 2021 12:34:58 GMT -5
I've said it before but one of the reasons he flopped in WWF imo was he viewed his role as a heel in was to give the face the vast majority of the match, bump like crazy & back off before cheating to win (if he was booked to win). It worked in Crockett because he got his heat through his promos or Horsemen beat downs. Without those factors if you didn't know who Flair was he came off as a glorified Honky Tonk Man. That is a good comparison I never thought of. I am not so much a Flair fan as a wrestler from years past but I do like and respect him as one of the best. His life has been literally wrestling and he has given so much to us in wrestling that I can't help but respect him and like him. He's a guy that obviously does autograph signings for money and yet you know he loves the adulation of the fans and other wrestlers around him so it's a positive experience. I probably liked him most when he was in the mid 1990s with the Horsemen and was obviously settling in with an elder statesman type of role. I always did follow his career pretty closely because he was always around my area near Baltimore Maryland for WCW shows so he did always interest me. It does suck he didn't have a match at Summer Slam 1992 but who can you really put him against? Despite being champ one PPV prior he wasn't ready for that spot here but you demean him by putting him with a much lower card wrestler. WWF probably did the only thing they could think of with him for the PPV. Other than his brief time between WCW and WWF in 1991 I doubt he missed many PPVs or major events. He left WWF citing Vince's promise with something like if he wasn't main event he could leave any time and sadly the writing was on the wall 6 months prior and I'm sure it hurt him not having a match on the card.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jun 15, 2021 12:38:29 GMT -5
The other factor specific to SummerSlam 92 was Flair & Perfect manipulating Savage & Warrior to weaken them so Flair could win the belt back. In kayfabe Flair was pissed he wasn't named the #1 contender. Why would he want a random match?
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Post by madness50 on Jun 15, 2021 23:59:01 GMT -5
Ric Flair’s original WWE is one of those things fans prop up like it’s amazing because it’s Flair. -Months of Heenan saying he’s coming. -Nothing -Nothing -Bullshit Survivor Series finish -Nothing -Wins Rumble 92, people only talk about Heenan -Feud takes place almost entirely in the magazine -Mania 8 -Nothing x 10 -Loses to Bret -Nothing -Loses to Perfect Right. The Rumble was cool and all and a big deal, but Vince hated the promo he cut and people didn't seem terribly interested in him versus Hogan. I feel like it'd have helped if he had the Horsemen, sure, but as it was, WWF fans weren't biting. I always heard that Vince hated that backstage promo too. I don’t know why though because it was truly one of his best ever. He put over the belt, the other wrestlers, and how he was the man now in the WWF.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 0:04:17 GMT -5
Right. The Rumble was cool and all and a big deal, but Vince hated the promo he cut and people didn't seem terribly interested in him versus Hogan. I feel like it'd have helped if he had the Horsemen, sure, but as it was, WWF fans weren't biting. I always heard that Vince hated that backstage promo too. I don’t know why though because it was truly one of his best ever. He put over the belt, the other wrestlers, and how he was the man now in the WWF. Yeah but that’s the thing it was kinda a face promo.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 16, 2021 3:22:19 GMT -5
I always heard that Vince hated that backstage promo too. I don’t know why though because it was truly one of his best ever. He put over the belt, the other wrestlers, and how he was the man now in the WWF. Yeah but that’s the thing it was kinda a face promo. It was weird, that night he was booked as a face. The early start, not running and hiding but actually fighting almost everyone in the match, apart from some low blows and the end, which weren't THAT heelish in the match he wasn't booked as a bad guy.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 16, 2021 4:42:06 GMT -5
It would've bombed.
The thing is with the old ITV wrestling, it got reevaluated a bit in the mid-2000s when The Wrestling Channel over here broadcast it again and people began to appreciate the good bits of it, and it somewhat betrayed how dated it was when it got taken off the air in the eighties, never mind in 1992. Greg Dyke is often maligned for axing ITV wrestling as part of his campaign to make ITV Sport more appealing to the middle classes, but the truth is that British wrestling and in particular Big Daddy was a relic by then and well past its sell-by date, especially compared to the WWF.
And I know this isn't really a hot take, but the spectre of ITV wrestling looming over the industry and the refusal of the British media, general public and promoters to move past that era is why British wrestling remained in the wilderness for two decades afterwards, for far too long afterwards all roads led to Big Daddy and World of Sport. This is also why the current love affair with late nineties nostalgia is so dangerous, to be honest.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 16, 2021 7:25:20 GMT -5
Yeah but that’s the thing it was kinda a face promo. It was weird, that night he was booked as a face. The early start, not running and hiding but actually fighting almost everyone in the match, apart from some low blows and the end, which weren't THAT heelish in the match he wasn't booked as a bad guy. It never came off to me watching as a kid that Ric was booked as the hero per se, more that they wanted to put over his endurance and being able to survive the onslaught of so many superstars he had pissed off with his bragging and cheating up to that point. A lot of that in retrospect was before I discovered Ray Stevens, and watching how he sold, Ric took a lot of that philosophy where the bad guy is booked as a big deal, but still feeds the hero and sells in the idea of “what’s it take to put them away?”
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Post by madness50 on Jun 16, 2021 8:00:21 GMT -5
I always heard that Vince hated that backstage promo too. I don’t know why though because it was truly one of his best ever. He put over the belt, the other wrestlers, and how he was the man now in the WWF. Yeah but that’s the thing it was kinda a face promo. Face or heel promo, it was damn good. Seeing how chaotic the booking was then, I question Vince’s judgment at the time anyway lol.
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Post by SmashTV on Jun 16, 2021 8:07:05 GMT -5
It would have been a novelty match at best - one of the all time greats against a past his prime, slightly forgotten British institution. Flair wouldn’t have had a good match as Daddy wasn’t that sort of worker.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 16, 2021 8:33:54 GMT -5
Now if a 41 year old entered the rumble that low, spent an hour in and won, even before a "face" promo the gears would be going to turn him face on Raw the next night. I always enjoyed Flair as a face in his early days, I didn't like when he turned back like in 1990 or 1994. I liked getting behind him but I guess he was more comfortable in the bad guy role.
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Post by mc74 on Jun 16, 2021 9:21:58 GMT -5
It would be an awful match. Flair can sure get a good match out of almost anyone, but I seriously doubt he would be able to get one out of Big Daddy. Would anyone in America have understood who Big Daddy is? I mean you could argue that they could've done some build up with promo videos and stuff but I don't think you could really get across to the American audience just how big a deal that match would be. They'd never heard of him, so even if he was presented as "The Hulk Hogan of England", no one would've cared. Also, Flair is capable of getting a good to great match out of almost anyone, but I don't know that Big Daddy would be among the people he could get a good match out of. I've watched quite a few of his matches to try and "get it", and well...I never got it. This. Big Daddy might have been a big deal in the UK, but you also have to take into consideration he wasn't well-known outside of that, so even if they did hype him up, it'd be difficult to get the American audience to care enough to invest in the match. Davey Boy Smith on the other hand, was the perfect choice to have as the guy representing the UK. He was more well-known internationally, was rising up in the ranks on the WWF card as a singles wrestler, and was the guy you want to go over in a big match situation. Him having an all-time classic against Bret Hart and winning the Intercontinental Championship made for one of the greatest moments in the PPVs history, if not the best.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jun 16, 2021 10:31:06 GMT -5
It would've bombed. The thing is with the old ITV wrestling, it got reevaluated a bit in the mid-2000s when The Wrestling Channel over here broadcast it again and people began to appreciate the good bits of it, and it somewhat betrayed how dated it was when it got taken off the air in the eighties, never mind in 1992. Greg Dyke is often maligned for axing ITV wrestling as part of his campaign to make ITV Sport more appealing to the middle classes, but the truth is that British wrestling and in particular Big Daddy was a relic by then and well past its sell-by date, especially compared to the WWF. And I know this isn't really a hot take, but the spectre of ITV wrestling looming over the industry and the refusal of the British media, general public and promoters to move past that era is why British wrestling remained in the wilderness for two decades afterwards, for far too long afterwards all roads led to Big Daddy and World of Sport. This is also why the current love affair with late nineties nostalgia is so dangerous, to be honest. Heck even with that new itv wrestling thing they did 2 years back they were still trying to relight that big daddy, haystacks ethos with Crater/Krator who was also very large and terrible in the ring.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 16, 2021 12:33:12 GMT -5
It would've bombed. The thing is with the old ITV wrestling, it got reevaluated a bit in the mid-2000s when The Wrestling Channel over here broadcast it again and people began to appreciate the good bits of it, and it somewhat betrayed how dated it was when it got taken off the air in the eighties, never mind in 1992. Greg Dyke is often maligned for axing ITV wrestling as part of his campaign to make ITV Sport more appealing to the middle classes, but the truth is that British wrestling and in particular Big Daddy was a relic by then and well past its sell-by date, especially compared to the WWF. And I know this isn't really a hot take, but the spectre of ITV wrestling looming over the industry and the refusal of the British media, general public and promoters to move past that era is why British wrestling remained in the wilderness for two decades afterwards, for far too long afterwards all roads led to Big Daddy and World of Sport. This is also why the current love affair with late nineties nostalgia is so dangerous, to be honest. Heck even with that new itv wrestling thing they did 2 years back they were still trying to relight that big daddy, haystacks ethos with Crater/Krator who was also very large and terrible in the ring. Absolutely, and every time you see media coverage of wrestling it's got to mention them. They've both been dead for over twenty years, their heyday was close to forty years ago and as a nation we still won't let it go. The World of Sport reboot was supposed to piggyback off the success of Britwres, which was successful largely because it wasn't like the old ITV stuff, and immediately they tried to recapture the spirit of wrestling that was old hat thirty years earlier. And it keeps happening and they never learn from it.
I've mentioned this a few times but I'm one of about four people on earth who remembers British wrestling's late nineties attempt at a rebirth, the UWA, and over the past few months I've done a bit of research on it and why it tanked because I think it's an interesting story. It had emerged at the peak of the nineties wrestling boom, and had some money behind it and a broadcast deal (albeit on L!VE TV), and was lauded as being the British answer to the WWF. And then it actually happened and the first show has Mick McManus on it, then people like Blondie Barratt - whose career peaked as Kendo Nagasaki's lackey - and Drew McDonald. So you've got this supposed rebirth of British wrestling and they've turned around and gone "Here are some blokes who were a bit popular a decade ago."
And then the reason it really tanked was that it was shit and anachronistic, because the talent and the storylines were all drawn from the British scene that had spent a good chunk of the previous decade failing to move on from the eighties, so while the WWF had the Higher Power angle going, Phil Powers was the top babyface doing a low-rent version of Ricky Steamboat's eighties family man gimmick and being billed as "Mr. Nice". So the whole thing was doomed despite having some of the tools it needed to succeed, and the reason it was doomed was because British wrestling had spent so long venerating the eighties that the industry got stuck and stopped it really moving on.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 16, 2021 15:32:58 GMT -5
Heck even with that new itv wrestling thing they did 2 years back they were still trying to relight that big daddy, haystacks ethos with Crater/Krator who was also very large and terrible in the ring. Absolutely, and every time you see media coverage of wrestling it's got to mention them. They've both been dead for over twenty years, their heyday was close to forty years ago and as a nation we still won't let it go. The World of Sport reboot was supposed to piggyback off the success of Britwres, which was successful largely because it wasn't like the old ITV stuff, and immediately they tried to recapture the spirit of wrestling that was old hat thirty years earlier. And it keeps happening and they never learn from it.
I've mentioned this a few times but I'm one of about four people on earth who remembers British wrestling's late nineties attempt at a rebirth, the UWA, and over the past few months I've done a bit of research on it and why it tanked because I think it's an interesting story. It had emerged at the peak of the nineties wrestling boom, and had some money behind it and a broadcast deal (albeit on L!VE TV), and was lauded as being the British answer to the WWF. And then it actually happened and the first show has Mick McManus on it, then people like Blondie Barratt - whose career peaked as Kendo Nagasaki's lackey - and Drew McDonald. So you've got this supposed rebirth of British wrestling and they've turned around and gone "Here are some blokes who were a bit popular a decade ago." And then the reason it really tanked was that it was shit and anachronistic, because the talent and the storylines were all drawn from the British scene that had spent a good chunk of the previous decade failing to move on from the eighties, so while the WWF had the Higher Power angle going, Phil Powers was the top babyface doing a low-rent version of Ricky Steamboat's eighties family man gimmick and being billed as "Mr. Nice". So the whole thing was doomed despite having some of the tools it needed to succeed, and the reason it was doomed was because British wrestling had spent so long venerating the eighties that the industry got stuck and stopped it really moving on.
I'm one of the other 3, it was madness considering they had Doug Williams and Christopher Daniels in the UWA, no let's go with Mr Nice, Paul Vault etc.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Jun 16, 2021 15:44:07 GMT -5
There was a segment that happened live but never made the broadcast or any various DVD/VHS releases. In this segment they introduced about four or five legends. I can’t remember all of them but I think one was Larry Hennig and one was definitely Lord Alfred Hayes. The crowd popped for Alfred as he was still just about part of the WWF back then and of course, he was a Brit. If Big Daddy was going to have any kind of appearance, it should have been then. A big pop from the crowd, an “easy” chant and walk off into the sunset.
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Post by msc on Jun 16, 2021 15:52:06 GMT -5
He was retired, washed up, and Bulldog was there, so no.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 16, 2021 15:55:46 GMT -5
Not a chance this was ever considered, nor should it have been. Big Daddy was old and out of shape even when he was famous, and by 1992 he was long past irrelevant, having tanked british wrestling in the process, the WWF didn't need him, and being associated with him could only have done them more harm than good.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 16, 2021 15:56:04 GMT -5
I know Piper had been done with active wrestling at that point, it wouldn't have made sense for Flair to wrestle given the angle with Savage/Warrior, and that the feud with the former two had been long over...
But damn Piper vs. Flair at Wembley Stadium could have been awesome.
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