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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 16, 2021 17:11:56 GMT -5
I'm one of the other 3, it was madness considering they had Doug Williams and Christopher Daniels in the UWA, no let's go with Mr Nice, Paul Vault etc. Good to find another. I remember watching it round my mate's place as a kid because he had cable, but I know it was considered terrible at the time. I found almost all of it on YouTube last summer and watched it back sort of hoping that I would find some hidden gems. And I did find a couple because yeah, Doug Williams and Christopher Daniels were involved, and Jody Fleisch, and they got Tiger Mask IV and Gran Naniwa in from Michinoku Pro, and it sort of had the potential to be a semi-decent wrestling show.
Then it turned out that most of the rest of the roster was fat blokes from the holiday camp circuit, and Phil Powers - who I'm pretty sure booked the whole thing - and his mates, with Powers as the whitest white meat babyface a la Steamboat (despite being, from all the stories I've heard, an absolutely appalling human being) but with none of Steamboat's charisma or ability. Every time they sort of hinted at doing something interesting, they ended up making a complete arse of it and reverting to ITV-style booking with black and white faces and heels, in 1999. There was a storyline where his protege got tired of his shit turned on him and I thought "Oh, this could be interesting because this bloke is insufferable, maybe he's actually supposed to be disingenuous and sanctimonious." Nope, he was still meant to be the face. I remember Power Slam magazine had absolutely rinsed this show for being crap and Powers went and cut a promo on the "smart marks", and it immediately became clear who it was booked for - children who were hopefully going to unflinchingly cheer the white meat face and boo the heel like they did Big Daddy.
And yeah, I remember Paul Vault being in the Transatlantic Wrestling Challenge a year or so after and again, some twat at Meridian had clearly seen wrestling and thought "Let's recreate World of Sport" and having blokes like him, and Gary Steele as a smiling babyface wearing a Union flag to the ring like Big Daddy used to, and you could just tell that was exactly what the intention was.
God, I've watched some shit wrestling in my time.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 17, 2021 4:26:53 GMT -5
I'm one of the other 3, it was madness considering they had Doug Williams and Christopher Daniels in the UWA, no let's go with Mr Nice, Paul Vault etc. Good to find another. I remember watching it round my mate's place as a kid because he had cable, but I know it was considered terrible at the time. I found almost all of it on YouTube last summer and watched it back sort of hoping that I would find some hidden gems. And I did find a couple because yeah, Doug Williams and Christopher Daniels were involved, and Jody Fleisch, and they got Tiger Mask IV and Gran Naniwa in from Michinoku Pro, and it sort of had the potential to be a semi-decent wrestling show. Then it turned out that most of the rest of the roster was fat blokes from the holiday camp circuit, and Phil Powers - who I'm pretty sure booked the whole thing - and his mates, with Powers as the whitest white meat babyface a la Steamboat (despite being, from all the stories I've heard, an absolutely appalling human being) but with none of Steamboat's charisma or ability. Every time they sort of hinted at doing something interesting, they ended up making a complete arse of it and reverting to ITV-style booking with black and white faces and heels, in 1999. There was a storyline where his protege got tired of his shit turned on him and I thought "Oh, this could be interesting because this bloke is insufferable, maybe he's actually supposed to be disingenuous and sanctimonious." Nope, he was still meant to be the face. I remember Power Slam magazine had absolutely rinsed this show for being crap and Powers went and cut a promo on the "smart marks", and it immediately became clear who it was booked for - children who were hopefully going to unflinchingly cheer the white meat face and boo the heel like they did Big Daddy. And yeah, I remember Paul Vault being in the Transatlantic Wrestling Challenge a year or so after and again, some twat at Meridian had clearly seen wrestling and thought "Let's recreate World of Sport" and having blokes like him, and Gary Steele as a smiling babyface wearing a Union flag to the ring like Big Daddy used to, and you could just tell that was exactly what the intention was. God, I've watched some shit wrestling in my time.
You mean former NWA World Heavyweight Champion Gary Steele... God that belt's had some lows. Yeah Jody I immediately ran to my N64 and created him lol glad to see he's still going now.
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Post by héad.casé on Jun 17, 2021 6:24:54 GMT -5
Heck even with that new itv wrestling thing they did 2 years back they were still trying to relight that big daddy, haystacks ethos with Crater/Krator who was also very large and terrible in the ring. Absolutely, and every time you see media coverage of wrestling it's got to mention them. They've both been dead for over twenty years, their heyday was close to forty years ago and as a nation we still won't let it go. The World of Sport reboot was supposed to piggyback off the success of Britwres, which was successful largely because it wasn't like the old ITV stuff, and immediately they tried to recapture the spirit of wrestling that was old hat thirty years earlier. And it keeps happening and they never learn from it.
I've mentioned this a few times but I'm one of about four people on earth who remembers British wrestling's late nineties attempt at a rebirth, the UWA, and over the past few months I've done a bit of research on it and why it tanked because I think it's an interesting story. It had emerged at the peak of the nineties wrestling boom, and had some money behind it and a broadcast deal (albeit on L!VE TV), and was lauded as being the British answer to the WWF. And then it actually happened and the first show has Mick McManus on it, then people like Blondie Barratt - whose career peaked as Kendo Nagasaki's lackey - and Drew McDonald. So you've got this supposed rebirth of British wrestling and they've turned around and gone "Here are some blokes who were a bit popular a decade ago." And then the reason it really tanked was that it was shit and anachronistic, because the talent and the storylines were all drawn from the British scene that had spent a good chunk of the previous decade failing to move on from the eighties, so while the WWF had the Higher Power angle going, Phil Powers was the top babyface doing a low-rent version of Ricky Steamboat's eighties family man gimmick and being billed as "Mr. Nice". So the whole thing was doomed despite having some of the tools it needed to succeed, and the reason it was doomed was because British wrestling had spent so long venerating the eighties that the industry got stuck and stopped it really moving on.
Yep, one of the others who used to watch UWA here. I remember Phil Powers, Drew McDonald, Jody Fleisch and Doug Williams. When I was wrestling my old promotion actually booked Doug once or twice a year - even brought the TNA X-Division Title with him once. Absolute gent, class act. If I’d have thought about it I’d have asked him about the UWA.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 17, 2021 7:10:27 GMT -5
You mean former NWA World Heavyweight Champion Gary Steele... God that belt's had some lows. Yeah Jody I immediately ran to my N64 and created him lol glad to see he's still going now. The thing about Steele is I don't think he was too bad a worker, at least compared to his contemporaries, but he was just such an absolute void of charisma. I remember Power Slam and WOW making a bit of a thing out of him being NWA champion for a week in 1999, but no one gave a shit about that title then. I can't be too harsh on Hammerlock because it was sort of the precursor to the modern Britwres and Andre Baker was one of the few promoters who seemed willing to move on from the ITV wrestling style, but at the same time it didn't have much about it and was sort of indicative of how much British wrestling wasn't ready for a rebirth in 1999. Yep, one of the others who used to watch UWA here. I remember Phil Powers, Drew McDonald, Jody Fleisch and Doug Williams. When I was wrestling my old promotion actually booked Doug once or twice a year - even brought the TNA X-Division Title with him once. Absolute gent, class act. If I’d have thought about it I’d have asked him about the UWA. Doug was far and away the best worker they had after the Michinoku Pro guys and Daniels disappeared. McDonald too, I did my rewatch and when he showed up I thought "f***ing hell, seriously?" because as I said, he was an old ITV guy, but he was actually a bit of a surprise package and I thought he did pretty well, he was never a great worker but he had a good character and was one of about two people there (I think Doug was the other) who could actually cut a decent promo. Phil f***ing Powers, though, Jesus. The promotion is a story that absolutely fascinates me because it came along at a time when wrestling was at its absolute zenith, but is largely forgotten. I actually stumbled across Dan Berlinka, one of the owners, online a while back and I've been really tempted to pick his brains about it all. I don't know why I'm so invested in it, I think because it went out when I was first getting interested in wrestling and became aware that there was more than the WWF and WCW, so I've always remembered it.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 17, 2021 7:42:36 GMT -5
You mean former NWA World Heavyweight Champion Gary Steele... God that belt's had some lows. Yeah Jody I immediately ran to my N64 and created him lol glad to see he's still going now. The thing about Steele is I don't think he was too bad a worker, at least compared to his contemporaries, but he was just such an absolute void of charisma. I remember Power Slam and WOW making a bit of a thing out of him being NWA champion for a week in 1999, but no one gave a shit about that title then. I can't be too harsh on Hammerlock because it was sort of the precursor to the modern Britwres and Andre Baker was one of the few promoters who seemed willing to move on from the ITV wrestling style, but at the same time it didn't have much about it and was sort of indicative of how much British wrestling wasn't ready for a rebirth in 1999. Yep, one of the others who used to watch UWA here. I remember Phil Powers, Drew McDonald, Jody Fleisch and Doug Williams. When I was wrestling my old promotion actually booked Doug once or twice a year - even brought the TNA X-Division Title with him once. Absolute gent, class act. If I’d have thought about it I’d have asked him about the UWA. Doug was far and away the best worker they had after the Michinoku Pro guys and Daniels disappeared. McDonald too, I did my rewatch and when he showed up I thought "f***ing hell, seriously?" because as I said, he was an old ITV guy, but he was actually a bit of a surprise package and I thought he did pretty well, he was never a great worker but he had a good character and was one of about two people there (I think Doug was the other) who could actually cut a decent promo. Phil f***ing Powers, though, Jesus. The promotion is a story that absolutely fascinates me because it came along at a time when wrestling was at its absolute zenith, but is largely forgotten. I actually stumbled across Dan Berlinka, one of the owners, online a while back and I've been really tempted to pick his brains about it all. I don't know why I'm so invested in it, I think because it went out when I was first getting interested in wrestling and became aware that there was more than the WWF and WCW, so I've always remembered it. Oh yeah Hammerlock were fine, but him ending up NWA champion, feels weird. UWA was a weird mash of the old style and Attitude style crash TV, I remember almost immediately they did a tag team breakup with Alex Shane and, I think the other guy was called Guy Thunder? And a junkyard brawl, I think Dino Scarlo was involved, no buildup, just things happening, little reason to care.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 17, 2021 7:50:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah Hammerlock were fine, but him ending up NWA champion, feels weird. UWA was a weird mash of the old style and Attitude style crash TV, I remember almost immediately they did a tag team breakup with Alex Shane and, I think the other guy was called Guy Thunder? And a junkyard brawl, I think Dino Scarlo was involved, no buildup, just things happening, little reason to care. Yeah, the junkyard fights angle was bizarre, it was blatantly done because they hadn't taped enough matches but still had several episodes to fill before the next block of tapings. Scarlo was involved, and Mad Dog McPhie, and some fat bloke called Tom Munroe who made the others involved looked like Lou Thesz, I seem to recall hearing that he wasn't even a wrestler. One of them culminated in a "competitor" injuring himself by punching a caravan.
It's all on YouTube if you ever feel masochistic enough to revisit it.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 13, 2022 16:44:20 GMT -5
Being a kid I hard enough time caring about Ric Flair. Ric Flair’s original WWE is one of those things fans prop up like it’s amazing because it’s Flair. -Months of Heenan saying he’s coming. -Nothing -Nothing -Bullshit Survivor Series finish -Nothing -Wins Rumble 92, people only talk about Heenan -Feud takes place almost entirely in the magazine -Mania 8 -Nothing x 10 -Loses to Bret -Nothing -Loses to Perfect What also didn't help Flair was they were trying to make him "one of the guys" immediately upon arrival by having him wrestle against jobbers on Superstars and pairing him with gimmicky characters like Ted Dibiase, The Warlord, and The Mountie, while at the same time trying to hype him up as a big deal, like they were trying to have it both ways. It dosen't work like that. I didn't think his WWF run was a failure as a whole, but pretty underwhelming given the circumstances.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 13, 2022 16:49:14 GMT -5
Being a kid I hard enough time caring about Ric Flair. I imagine most kids thought the same thing. He looked to be about 60-70 in 1990. He's what I would called a WCW guy and in the 1990s WCW guys wouldn't do well in WWF for the most part. I think it's been even mentioned before that most WWF fans saw WCW as the secondary league so Flair coming in on top and winning the title so quickly probably didn't set well with fans. Some of his run was also bad booking, WWF didn't really know how to book him plus the flop of the Hogan house show matches. Some think the buildup to the Macho Man WM 8 match was great but even as a kid I didn't get it. I know "stuff happens" but I don't see Flair and Elizabeth's lifes/careers intersecting before 1991 to where they could have had a long time relationship.Well in kayfabe they(Savage and Miss Elizabeth) didn't "meet" until 1985, so his(Flair's of course) affair with Liz could've taken place before then. Obviously he's going to lie about something like that(because that's what heels do), so I don't think it was that big of a deal, timeline wise.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Dec 14, 2022 19:15:06 GMT -5
Would anyone in America have understood who Big Daddy is? I mean you could argue that they could've done some build up with promo videos and stuff but I don't think you could really get across to the American audience just how big a deal that match would be. They'd never heard of him, so even if he was presented as "The Hulk Hogan of England", no one would've cared. Also, Flair is capable of getting a good to great match out of almost anyone, but I don't know that Big Daddy would be among the people he could get a good match out of. I've watched quite a few of his matches to try and "get it", and well...I never got it. I really don't get it either. The amount of older folk who always bring up Big Daddy here in the UK... I try watching his work. The guy has a natural charisma for sure, but he can't work worth a damn in the ring, and his rivalry with Giant Haystacks? Yeah, dreadful.
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 14, 2022 19:28:08 GMT -5
The issue with Big Daddy is that he was a product of his time and specifically of the British wrestling scene. Trying to work around both contexts to an American audience that's largely just going to just see him him as a old English fat guy was simply not practical.
It would be like trying to get El Santo over to 80s WWF fans; the vast majority would not understand why he was so beloved and that's even taking into account that Santo was still far more mobile in his final days than Big Daddy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 19:57:57 GMT -5
7 year-old me already thought Ric Flair was a boring, white-haired, old man, and I couldn't be bothered to care about the British Bulldog back then.
I can only imagine what I (and the rest of the American audience) would have thought of an even older, slower, less in-shape guy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 21:09:35 GMT -5
The Conway Pop Big Daddy would've got if he came out infront of an American WWF Audience would've been legendary.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Dec 14, 2022 22:24:07 GMT -5
Unless Flair is winning in a quick squash to get heat, I think this would be a terrible idea. Big Daddy would have been in his 60's when this match took place. And even in his prime, Big Daddy was god-awful.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 15, 2022 6:26:17 GMT -5
Like I watched a lot of Big Daddy matches (Lord help me) To try to understand what made him a draw. He was terrible worker from everything I saw. I feel like I missing the what made him so over. I saw just a fat guy who worked 2 min matches. I'm use to big man who can do stuff. 92 verison would been a train wreck. More so a couple months later Yokozuna debut who was a big guy but could move and wrestle.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Dec 15, 2022 6:37:50 GMT -5
Big Daddy Buttcheeks is more like it. I don’t think peak Kenta Kobashi could have ever gotten a good match out of this dude.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 15, 2022 6:52:19 GMT -5
Like I watched a lot of Big Daddy matches (Lord help me) To try to understand what made him a draw. He was terrible worker from everything I saw. I feel like I missing the what made him so over. I saw just a fat guy who worked 2 min matches. I'm use to big man who can do stuff. 92 verison would been a train wreck. More so a couple months later Yokozuna debut who was a big guy but could move and wrestle. Herein lay his appeal. He was an everyman, sort of British wrestling equivalent to Dusty Rhodes: an ex-coal miner (or at least billed as one) who was probably viewed by wrestling fans in the industrial towns and cities in the north of England as one of their own, especially during what was a period of turmoil for a lot of British industry in the early eighties. He'd also been a professional rugby player at one point, and a Coldstream Guard (one of the regiments of the British Army that protects the monarch), and was probably viewed by many people as a real working class hero.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 15, 2022 16:56:41 GMT -5
No offense to the OP, but that would have died in front of a crowd.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 15, 2022 18:32:46 GMT -5
I wonder if the crowds popped for the legends tribute before the show, right before the Papa Shango entrance. It retired guys either working for WWF or having a relative work there at the time. Legends tributes were really not a "thing" back then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 20:12:59 GMT -5
Maybe as a dark “main event” before the show? Ric loses by count out or something. They announce it in advance for the local market, let them pre-tape some promos.
I don’t see it happening for American tv.
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 16, 2022 20:18:38 GMT -5
Big Daddy vs Ric Flair would have been the worst match of Ric Flairs entire career, even including the matches he had in TNA.
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