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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 2, 2021 8:40:58 GMT -5
has this era helped you realize what kind of wrestling you most enjoy or value?
We all know the options are seemingly unlimited right now: on US TV you've got WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, MLW, and even some smaller promotions depending on what cable package you might have, while YouTube and platforms like Fite and IWTV give us access to NWA, GCW, and an endless number of indies. That doesn't even get into the international scene: Japan has streaming platforms for NJPW, Stardom, the DDT Universe (DDT, TJPW, NOAH, and more), AJPW, etc., AAA in Mexico has worked to be available on YouTube or Twitch for certain cards, etc.
So given that the days of only having one, maybe two promotions at your fingertips if you weren't willing to tape trade or pay a lot for DVDs are gone, and given how diverse and different so many of these promotions are from one another in their in-ring styles, aesthetics and presentations, booking philosophies, etc., have you found your tastes in wrestling becoming a little more "refined"? Not like "I demand only the best" refined, but more "I've now seen enough different promotions to know what kind of wrestling I like, and I'm going to seek that style out". Hell, do you feel like you've gotten more of a sense of how these promotions are distinct from one another, and do you take anything away from that?
Like, going by some of the stuff I've watched over the last couple of years I feel like I can distinguish a lot about many of the shows:
-I've been pretty into current ROH; feels like they've adapted best to the empty arena era because they started to re-emphasize their reputation as "the technical wrestling promotion", and that's meant a big focus on things like the minutiae of in-ring strategy and storytelling, which I'm realizing is something I really value in the wrestling I watch. Add in things like the face-to-face prematch promos they do and I like that they're ensuring basically every match has a story/motivation built into it.
-Impact has kind of moulded itself into one of the better "sports entertainment"-style promotions right now. For all the often justified grief TNA used to get for being "WWE Lite" at times, current Impact has kind of adapted that style usually associated with WWE and refined it pretty well: lots of over the top gimmicks, often invisible-but-not-THAT-invisible cameras for backstage skits and promos, healthy doses of comedy, etc.
-Hell, maybe the widest contrast nowadays might be the NWA and GCW: NWA is built on that Mid South/Crockett structure of simple match structures and straightforward character motivations, while GCW is like your neighborhood punk dive bar and brimming with pure chaotic energy.
So yeah, it's impossible to watch or follow everything out there these days, so with exposure to so many unique shows nowadays, what sorts of criteria have you established to help you narrow down what your fan focus is on? I know for me that getting into NJPW has really gotten me to want to focus more on puro as a whole: I really value the way most puro promotions, even ones as different as, say, NJPW and DDT, put so much focus on the basics of in-ring work and combine that with an emphasis on in-ring storytelling and character development. I've already got subscriptions to NJPW World and DDT Universe, but I wouldn't mind looking into AJPW.tv and Stardom World, too...but then I'd probably have to figure out which other promotions I suddenly wouldn't have as much time for! Hell of a time to be a fan, I guess, but feels daunting sometimes, doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2021 8:57:49 GMT -5
Definitely. I was a kid during the Monday Night Wars, and just always assumed I was a WWF/WWE fan because that's what my dad preferred. Ironically, WWE giving me access to the Network over the last few years made me realize that my taste in wrestling is actually much more in line with, like, 1991-1995 WCW (the "southern rasslin" style with a sports entertainment flair).
As far as modern promotions go, that preference has caused me to really gravitate toward AEW, NJPW, and MLW, all of which I think, in various ways, present various aspects of that style of professional wrestling. NJPW, in particular, is something that I was always interested in, but could never consistently watch until NJPW World became a thing, and now I follow it pretty closely.
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The Thread Barbi
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jul 2, 2021 10:56:04 GMT -5
Yes, wrestling has changed. It's a safer environment for the wrestlers, and that can never be applauded enough.
However, at showtime, the good old days are gone. I preface by saying these days I only dab into YouTube highlights of AEW and WWE, so my experience to the wrestling spectrum isn't as expansive as others
Golden Era WWF cannot be replicated, nor can 1997/98 WCW.
The characters, the pacing, the storytelling, the variety of acts etc are sorely missing in major American promotions.
I could laugh at the antics of a young Chris Jericho while being enthralled by his wrestling other cruiserweights.
Icould get sucked into Goldberg's streak or Sting/Hogan or a big man brawl betweenBig Show and Nash, whereas the midcard was occupied by DDP, Kurt Hennig, Guerrero etc.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 2, 2021 11:06:49 GMT -5
I feel like the amount of excellent in-ring action out there has helped me realize that I really need strong characters and storylines to sink my teeth into. Don't get me wrong, having a great match helps a ton and I'd prefer a Kenny Omega match to a Fiend match any day of the week. But I need some level of investment into the guys in the ring for me to really care. Contrast that with the mid 2000s where there wasn't a lot of good wrestling easily available and finding a Best of the X Division DVD was incredible. Even if I didn't know who any of these guys were, they blew my mind with what they could do in the ring. Those matches just don't have the same effect for me anymore.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 2, 2021 19:36:20 GMT -5
Actually, I dunno if what I’ve usually liked in wrestling has shifted too much. I’ve become aware of more specific techniques in how the shows are made, but I’ll say when I was twelve I rewatched Bret Hart in the 93 King of the Ring pretty often because those matches were hella exciting. Summerslam 1992’s World and IC matches blew my young mind.
But- I also got a kick out of Bam Bam Bigelow’s team fighting the four Doinks. I knew that wasn’t exactly “sophisticated wrestling” and honestly downright stupid, but it made me laugh so I could still appreciate it.
So basically I mostly gear towards really intense wrestling with major stakes on the line and prestige (with good personalities to hype up the matches), but if a ridiculous segment isn’t too intelligence insulting and the performers are having fun, I’m on board. But it depends on my mood. Some days I might want Cena/AJ, sometimes I’m up for Tanahashi/Okada, other nights I wanna rewatch Broken Matt Hardy fight with drones and a sentient boat.
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Post by petef3 on Jul 2, 2021 21:23:14 GMT -5
Actually I have an issue with the very premise in the subject line: to me, there's *less* variance in wrestling than ever before. There's more of it, but there's never been a point where so many promotions in so many parts of the world have such similar styles. Not 100% the same, but similar. More similar than they ever were in the '90s.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 2, 2021 22:50:17 GMT -5
If nothing else, I've definitely developed a taste for deathmatch wrestling, especially as deathmatch promotions were among the first to adapt to running outdoor or open air shows with socially distant seating during the summer of 2020. There was a good few months where the only place to get any sort of new content with authentic crowd noise was watching GCW or ICW:NHB.
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Jul 2, 2021 22:57:28 GMT -5
7 year old spauldo liked colorful and loud characters. I was enthralled by the spectacle and action.
18 year old spauldo liked ultraviolence and insanity. I wanted to be shocked by the carnage.
25 year old spauldo liked indy wrestling and learning more about the business. I grew a strong appreciation for in-ring work, and realized that this "fake" sport actually mirrors what other professional athletes must go through to become successful, like training and conditioning etc.
40 year old spauldo wants a little of all those things in a nice package. I am amazed and fascinated that people choose this for a profession, and I love the art of getting people to believe in the unbelievable.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jul 3, 2021 2:29:50 GMT -5
The variety and easy access has made me realise just how much I don't like wrestling anymore. There is so much out there and none of it appeals to me. I still come here and I watch clips for nostalgia, but I don't consider myself a fan anymore.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jul 3, 2021 3:06:21 GMT -5
Pretty much for me the wrestling that appeals to me is...
1 hour long
Mostly matches
very little backstage or non match stuff
And filmed with 2 cameras. One hard cam and one roaming camera.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 3, 2021 8:55:48 GMT -5
Pretty much for me the wrestling that appeals to me is... 1 hour long Mostly matches very little backstage or non match stuff And filmed with 2 cameras. One hard cam and one roaming camera. I love the 1 hour wrestling format. Especially if that’s all the canon content and you don’t have to feel out of the loop when you don’t track down obscure social media stuff. For me MLW does it the best. Or at least did it the best. Not saying their programming has gotten worse. I’m just far behind on it. I have something between admiration and pity for folks who try to watch ALL programming from WWE these days. They just produce SO MUCH content literally everyday. Just watching them could literally be a full time job. I gave up long ago. But WWE is going to keep churning stuff out at this pace for the foreseeable future. That’s the trend with streaming/TV right now. They don’t want the best content. They want A LOT of content (preferably live). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 9:43:22 GMT -5
Absolutely.
I used to watch any wrestling I could, but with so much available I don't have to bother with promotions that mostly just piss me off to get my wrestling fix.
Currently I like:
AEW Dynamite and ppvs
Impact
NJPW major shows and matches
NXT Takeovers and Supercards (such as GAB this week)
GCW (except Bloodsport, I'm burned out on those)
Also gonna check out ROH's next ppv to see if I dig it, and also MLW when the fans return soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 18:19:42 GMT -5
Wrestling helped get though the pandemic, so watched a lot companies during this time.
My favorites trend to be Impact, OVW, MLW. They might not be the “best wrestling” companies, but they have strong defined heels and villains, everyone is given something to do. Feuds don’t last to long and the heels get comupence.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 5, 2021 18:27:16 GMT -5
Actually I have an issue with the very premise in the subject line: to me, there's *less* variance in wrestling than ever before. There's more of it, but there's never been a point where so many promotions in so many parts of the world have such similar styles. Not 100% the same, but similar. More similar than they ever were in the '90s. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I guess it depends on what we're describing as the key differences between promotions. Like, as I said in the first post I think that ROH and Impact have very different products right now: their match layouts are very different, their in-ring styles are very different, their promo segments are very different, etc. I was too young to get far into a lot of different promotions in the 90s (e.g. couldn't get into tape trading or what have you), but I'd say it's a bigger gap than what I saw between WWF and WCW back then. Granted, the 90s also had NJPW and AJPW in some of their most popular eras and ECW was rising, but I feel like today, for example, that NJPW and NOAH are very different from one another, and that, again, I can't think of many things feeling more different than the current NWA and GCW. Again though, I guess it depends what aspects we're focusing on here, but I do think there's a lot of varied in-ring styles and booking approaches today, let alone aesthetic differences. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 20:19:36 GMT -5
Wrestling helped get though the pandemic, so watched a lot companies during this time. My favorites trend to be Impact, OVW, MLW. They might not be the “best wrestling” companies, but they have strong defined heels and villains, everyone is given something to do. Feuds don’t last to long and the heels get comupence. "Best wrestling company" is the one that entertains you the most, not the one some dickhead you don't even know thinks has the best workrate or whatever. |
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jul 5, 2021 21:31:50 GMT -5
Actually I have an issue with the very premise in the subject line: to me, there's *less* variance in wrestling than ever before. There's more of it, but there's never been a point where so many promotions in so many parts of the world have such similar styles. Not 100% the same, but similar. More similar than they ever were in the '90s. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I guess it depends on what we're describing as the key differences between promotions. I do think there's a lot of varied in-ring styles and booking approaches today, let alone aesthetic differences. I agree with the original statement purely when it comes to ring-work. I haven't seen every promotion but from catching big shows here and there I find what happens in between the ropes is generally the same nowadays, ie we have Everything for Everyone and Everyone can do Everything. You're every bit as likely to find a brutal, hard-hitting match in AEW as you are in WWE or NJPW, just as you are a great cruiserweight match via NXT, BOSTJ or Triplemania and so on. This is good! This means the "floor" of wrestling is higher than ever before and if a fan follows one promotion exclusively they are still able to get good variety. It means wrestlers are given more freedom and are closer than ever before. The drawback, for my taste, is that this paradoxically makes them more similar. They are influenced by history and learn/take from each other more, actively tailor their approach to please as many as possible (cynically for dirtsheet/twitter approval and also purely to give people their money's worth no matter how small the audience) and are less willing to stand their ground about spots/moves not bleeding into each other all over the card. By the power of globalization you're simply not gonna have that "wow, I've never seen that before" reaction the way one would have when Liger/Pillman fought in that Milwaukee crowd or when you first put on a Heatwave 98 tape after a childhood of growing up on WWF. Therefore the biggest differences left to distinguish each other ARE booking and aesthetics; how short or long a wrestler's arc within a company is, what kind of topics/motivations are kosher for storylines, camera angles or positions for promos/etc, the 'look' of a show and so forth. To answer the question; I would say despite some quality decline (partly due to COVID, partly due to missteps and injuries) NJPW blends what I like from wrestling most. I know there are many fans who are not into sports at all, but wrestling for me is best when what happens in the ring is treated as a sport. Promos are only there to get thoughts on matches or as worthy speeches after winning a title. I like there to be tournaments and rigid hierarchies and dynasties to root for/against. It should be f***ing hard to be a champion. I still remember how pissed many were when Naito lost at WK12. And I liked it. It was juicy. I was rooting for him too. But sometimes the one you're rooting for just loses or isn't good enough or makes a crucial mistake. That's how sports are. I've been rooting for Ishii to be a champ for years. Most promotions probably would have made him one by now as a thank you. Some can see it as waste. I don't see it that way, he's still a bad dude. Remember when he beat Kenny Omega to a bloody pulp at G1 Climax 28? When Goto made Jay White eat shit after an entire summer of insults? Guys get signature wins to look back proudly on even without titles. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2021 21:45:18 GMT -5
Wrestling helped get though the pandemic, so watched a lot companies during this time. My favorites trend to be Impact, OVW, MLW. They might not be the “best wrestling” companies, but they have strong defined heels and villains, everyone is given something to do. Feuds don’t last to long and the heels get comupence. "Best wrestling company" is the one that entertains you the most, not the one some dickhead you don't even know thinks has the best workrate or whatever. True dat. AEW matches are technically better and it’s not that I don’t enjoy them. But most I find most of them are to long and don’t have enough stakes as most of the matches are foregone conclusions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 1:07:22 GMT -5
"Best wrestling company" is the one that entertains you the most, not the one some dickhead you don't even know thinks has the best workrate or whatever. True dat. AEW matches are technically better and it’s not that I don’t enjoy them. But most I find most of them are to long and don’t have enough stakes as most of the matches are foregone conclusions. AEW is my favorite promotion because of their style/booking/attitude/etc. but I totally agree about the matches. They suffer from that thing where they want every match to be an epic classic. And while I appreciate that, if every match is epic, then none of them are. And yes it takes away from more people getting tv time. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 6, 2021 14:52:21 GMT -5
So far as which products give me what I want out of my wrestling ATM: NJPW is a highlight for me because I love the “big time sporting event” feeling they provide, without neglecting to give the wrestlers distinct identities and attitudes. Same with NOAH to certain degrees.
I love how AEW puts more value into W/L records and building peoples up through enhancement matches than most US companies, as well as their unique stables (the women’s division needs its own groups, though). I do wish some of the lower-card matches weren’t trying to blow the audience away so much, sometimes they could realize that less is more. Note how in New Japan. guys in the multi-man matches don’t throw out their entire arsenal, and they tend to save their biggest and craziest spots for the marquee one-on-one fights.
For as many booking issues I have with WWE right now (they can’t properly build up champions anymore to save their lives, and they’re in bad need of feeding more talent properly with enhancements), they’ve still got a crazy roster of talent and there’s still a bunch of performers there I enjoy too much to totally ignore. And yeah, there’s some nostalgia appeal probably still, WWF was the first product I got hooked on as a kid.
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