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Post by Edge of Insanity on Aug 2, 2021 3:19:09 GMT -5
To put it frankly, I've been tired of Elite shtick since at least May or so. There's a tight rope to walk in terms of how much a crowd hates something, and it can quickly turn from "I can't wait for this asshole to lose" from a kayfabe perspective to "I'm tired of waiting for this asshole to lose" and you just tune out. It wouldn't be so bad if they would even occasionally give The Elite a mild comeuppance, but they've had nothing save for that loss to Penta and Eddie Kingston. Someone once brought up that this is how they booked Flair and Horsemen in the Crockett days, but I disagree. To paraphrase something Ric himself said "I'm a 16 time champion, and I'm pretty sure that means I've only won 16 matches" I recognize I'm just one guy, and there's plenty of good things to like about AEW, but I just don't have the desire for a lot of "Wait and see" past a certain point anymore. Hangman winning at All Out has to be the crescendo, and any other plan would be a massive misstep that would make me walk away for a while. Same. Same.
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King Devitt
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Post by King Devitt on Aug 2, 2021 6:34:58 GMT -5
I don't care if the PPV after All Out is named for him. That doesn't justify not giving the blow-off to your biggest, longest building storyline going for over 2 years at your marquee event.
If they do go with Christian, then they deserve any backlash they get. "Oh we can wait til the next one" doesn't work here. Especially when the rumored replacement is a Dynamite title shot AT BEST.
I hope we get a Yes movement type situation where the fans hijack the thing and force them to make the logical decision. Christian has a place, even I concede that, but it's not at that event in that match. It's just not.
Full Gear won't feel as special. And you risk alienating some of your audience due to it. But I guess with Punk and Bryan coming in maybe that's a risk they're willing to take?
I dunno, it's all speculation, and I'm just reacting to how it might play out.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 2, 2021 6:43:23 GMT -5
I don't get the Full Gear name argument. If people think that'd make anything more apt, why not Page doing his first title defence against PAC, so we get both halves of that equation?
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chrom
Backup Wench
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Post by chrom on Aug 2, 2021 6:56:14 GMT -5
The only possible exception to beating Omega at All Out that won't have the fans hijacking it would be Jungle Boy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2021 7:09:35 GMT -5
I get what Meltzer said, and Meltz is pretty damned spot on with AEW reporting
But I just don't get it if the reports are true that it won't be Hangman in the Main Event. That's the story they've built up. That's the story the audience is invested in. Kenny Omega is apparently banged up and needing some time off. All Out is the time to do it.
I can't see any scenario where anyone besides Hangman in that main event won't lead to a metaphorical bloodbath from the audience.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 2, 2021 8:20:09 GMT -5
I get what Meltzer said, and Meltz is pretty damned spot on with AEW reporting But I just don't get it if the reports are true that it won't be Hangman in the Main Event. That's the story they've built up. That's the story the audience is invested in. Kenny Omega is apparently banged up and needing some time off. All Out is the time to do it. I can't see any scenario where anyone besides Hangman in that main event won't lead to a metaphorical bloodbath from the audience. AEW audience does not seem like the type to hijack a show just yet. Though they might be less than rabid for an Omega-Christian title match. I can’t imagine that’s what they’re going with though.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 2, 2021 8:30:25 GMT -5
I get what Meltzer said, and Meltz is pretty damned spot on with AEW reporting But I just don't get it if the reports are true that it won't be Hangman in the Main Event. That's the story they've built up. That's the story the audience is invested in. Kenny Omega is apparently banged up and needing some time off. All Out is the time to do it. I can't see any scenario where anyone besides Hangman in that main event won't lead to a metaphorical bloodbath from the audience. AEW audience does not seem like the type to hijack a show just yet. Though they might be less than rabid for an Omega-Christian title match. I can’t imagine that’s what they’re going with though. It took a lot of years and a lot of events happening in short succession with very definitive consequences--Punk walking out forever, Daniel Bryan not being in the rumble period--to really start that groundswell, and it tapped into dissatisdfactions that had been there for a while. AEW is a long way and a lot more than one creative misstep, no matter how big, from having its fans turn on it that bluntly.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Aug 2, 2021 8:54:44 GMT -5
I have a feeling, if AEW is in tune with the audience, live and on the Internet, as I believe they are; that they know the fan base feels tense about what’s going to happen. I would think they would know by now that might not be a good idea to have Omega vs Christian. Unless that’s the only option they have. Because I refuse to believe they would intentionally leave Hangman Page, their biggest babyface star, off the card for no reason, unless something is up with him. I think once we finally get the full story of what’s about to happen; we can better evaluate the situation. Because the board is dividing itself into camps and that sucks. So I refuse to assume they are f**king up just yet until they officially announce Omega vs Christian, with no update on why Hangman isn’t even going to be on the PPV. I think AEW has earned the trust of the fan base.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 2, 2021 8:57:28 GMT -5
I can't hold much ill will toward AEW if Hangman is going on paternity leave. That's big and that's out of the story's hand. I'll think it was massively idiotic to set him up for what seemed like the final stretch of the story if it's just a road bump, absolutely. But if he's off the All Out card entirely because his wife just or is about to give birth, that's different, and I think most of the crowd will be understanding about that. Absolutely there will be goons. But the goons can't turn the tide of a whole audience, and I'd see a big "Cowboy shit" chant as support more than protest.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Aug 2, 2021 8:59:32 GMT -5
AEW audience does not seem like the type to hijack a show just yet. Though they might be less than rabid for an Omega-Christian title match. I can’t imagine that’s what they’re going with though. It took a lot of years and a lot of events happening in short succession with very definitive consequences--Punk walking out forever, Daniel Bryan not being in the rumble period--to really start that groundswell, and it tapped into dissatisdfactions that had been there for a while. AEW is a long way and a lot more than one creative misstep, no matter how big, from having its fans turn on it that bluntly. Also, with all the screwups WWE and WCW have had, even if they screwed up, the reasons they seem bigger is that those companies let the quality dip to shit. Starrcade 97 didn’t need to be the beginning of the end. Neither did Goldberg losing at Starrcade 98 or the Finger Poke of Doom. Those were some of the worst booking decisions in history, but they could have recovered from them if WCW didn’t let themselves go to shit. As with everything, the aftermath really matters. It’s like when people said the Revolution explosion botch was gonna be the end of AEW and they were a laughing stock. What did AEW do? Put on someone the best shows in their history and now they are even hotter than ever. After you screwup, you have to let that go, learn and do better and keep providing quality and AEW has done that.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 2, 2021 9:18:07 GMT -5
I have heard some rumors of Page getting his moment st Full Gear since that's technically his show but that a different discussion.
I think Omega you can milk for awhile longer if you really want to don't agree with that bur you can. I do however think it's getting close to time for the Bucks to drop the tag titles though
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Aug 2, 2021 9:20:59 GMT -5
I have heard some rumors of Page getting his moment st Full Gear since that's technically his show but that a different discussion. I think Omega you can milk for awhile longer if you really want to don't agree with that bur you can. I do however think it's getting close to time for the Bucks to drop the tag titles though Honestly, that could be a suitable replacement for Page winning. Whoever beats the Bucks would get the pop of their career I feel. I think that would be a good compromise to some people.
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Aug 2, 2021 9:21:43 GMT -5
Eventually, they run the risk of dragging their feet to the extent that the impact of Hangman's destiny doesn't have the same impact as it would or should have.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 2, 2021 9:23:36 GMT -5
It took a lot of years and a lot of events happening in short succession with very definitive consequences--Punk walking out forever, Daniel Bryan not being in the rumble period--to really start that groundswell, and it tapped into dissatisdfactions that had been there for a while. AEW is a long way and a lot more than one creative misstep, no matter how big, from having its fans turn on it that bluntly. Also, with all the screwups WWE and WCW have had, even if they screwed up, the reasons they seem bigger is that those companies let the quality dip to shit. Starrcade 97 didn’t need to be the beginning of the end. Neither did Goldberg losing at Starrcade 98 or the Finger Poke of Doom. Those were some of the worst booking decisions I’m history, but they could have recovered from them if WCW didn’t let themselves go to shit. As with everything, the aftermath really matters. It’s like when people said the Revolution explosion botch was gonna be the end of AEW and they were a laughing stock. What did AEW do? Put on someone the best shows in their history and now they are even hotter than ever. After you screwup, you have to let that go, learn and do better and keep providing quality and AEW has done that. Your thread in Wrest about when people lost faith in WWE is a great example of this in action. There's some consistent answers but there's also a broad variety of f***s-ups across time, between booking and real life, that took years to wear out or happened overnight. It's complicated as hell, and AEW does not have that complicated legacy yet. They can stand to lose a lot if they drop the ball too hard with this, and it can absolutely become a moment looked back on as a big mistake that hurt their good will. But it'll take time to get to the point that people are at with WWE or were at with WCW.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2021 9:44:50 GMT -5
If Christian gets trotted out there to "main event" against Kenny, a Chicago AEW crowd will absolutely hijack the match.
I think AEW knows this and won't do it, unless they make a conscious decision to turn Christian into "Veteran Heel #11324 - you fans don't respect what I've put my body through." Which is what I really hope doesn't happen, as I've alluded to. Christian in the match will really turn me off of AEW short term.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Aug 2, 2021 10:03:10 GMT -5
Let me be clear first and foremost, I understand the stakes are not nearly as high as they were for WCW in 1997, but the concept is the same. I also have quite a bit of trust for AEW and their ability to book things correctly long term even if in the moment they don't make sense. The surprising directions that they've taken their angles in have almost always worked out in the past. That being said, I think that there is a clear parallel between this angle and the NWO angle circa 1997. The Elite has been presented as an invincible heel stable who has gotten away with everything for almost a year. We're at a point now where the angle is RED HOT and everybody is chomping at the bit to finally see them lose. But as we all saw on Wednesday, we're getting to a point where it might be working too well. It's to the point with some people where seeing them win gets people mad, like turn off the TV and rage quit mad. They have a clear end point for this story too, and a clear way that it should end. Much like Sting at Starrcade 1997, Hangman Page winning the belt at All Out is the only correct decision here. People were mad about the 10 man tag match (I wasn't particularly happy myself), and even though many were disproportionately angry in comparison to what had actually happened, it's illustrative that they need to tread very cautiously if they want to avoid a big backlash. A lot of the reason so many of us defended it as much as we did was the fact that this was clearly not the end of the story. Imagine how much angrier (and harder to justify) it would be if Hangman didn't end up leaving with the World Title at All Out? I think this is going to be an important thing to navigate properly for AEW. Lots of goodwill could be killed off in one night if they don't play their cards right. To put it frankly, I've been tired of Elite shtick since at least May or so. There's a tight rope to walk in terms of how much a crowd hates something, and it can quickly turn from "I can't wait for this asshole to lose" from a kayfabe perspective to "I'm tired of waiting for this asshole to lose" and you just tune out. It wouldn't be so bad if they would even occasionally give The Elite a mild comeuppance, but they've had nothing save for that loss to Penta and Eddie Kingston. Someone once brought up that this is how they booked Flair and Horsemen in the Crockett days, but I disagree. To paraphrase something Ric himself said "I'm a 16 time champion, and I'm pretty sure that means I've only won 16 matches" I recognize I'm just one guy, and there's plenty of good things to like about AEW, but I just don't have the desire for a lot of "Wait and see" past a certain point anymore. Hangman winning at All Out has to be the crescendo, and any other plan would be a massive misstep that would make me walk away for a while. I just want to see the Bucks get destroyed. I f'ing HATE them (their characters). It's been a LONG time since I've wanted to see someone get beat down as much as I want to see the Bucks get beat. They are the epitome of douchebag heels. They do a helluva job in that role and are way better than when they were faces. I want to reiterate, my hate for them is totally in "kayfabe". From everything I've heard, they are good guys.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Aug 2, 2021 10:08:29 GMT -5
Also, with all the screwups WWE and WCW have had, even if they screwed up, the reasons they seem bigger is that those companies let the quality dip to shit. Starrcade 97 didn’t need to be the beginning of the end. Neither did Goldberg losing at Starrcade 98 or the Finger Poke of Doom. Those were some of the worst booking decisions I’m history, but they could have recovered from them if WCW didn’t let themselves go to shit. As with everything, the aftermath really matters. It’s like when people said the Revolution explosion botch was gonna be the end of AEW and they were a laughing stock. What did AEW do? Put on someone the best shows in their history and now they are even hotter than ever. After you screwup, you have to let that go, learn and do better and keep providing quality and AEW has done that. Your thread in Wrest about when people lost faith in WWE is a great example of this in action. There's some consistent answers but there's also a broad variety of f***s-ups across time, between booking and real life, that took years to wear out or happened overnight. It's complicated as hell, and AEW does not have that complicated legacy yet. They can stand to lose a lot if they drop the ball too hard with this, and it can absolutely become a moment looked back on as a big mistake that hurt their good will. But it'll take time to get to the point that people are at with WWE or were at with WCW. It would have an impact to some degree, for sure. For me, it would make me a little less trusting of future angles. Like people keep saying he’ll surely win at Full Gear now. I can’t be sure of that or trust that now, because they had me sure it would happen at All Out. It’s not like I’ll stop watching the show. But if they mess up Page it probably will make me more cynical of their future booking. I would hate that, because it takes away the pure just going along for the ride feeling I’ve had while trusting them.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 2, 2021 10:13:28 GMT -5
I have heard some rumors of Page getting his moment st Full Gear since that's technically his show but that a different discussion. I think Omega you can milk for awhile longer if you really want to don't agree with that bur you can. I do however think it's getting close to time for the Bucks to drop the tag titles though Honestly, that could be a suitable replacement for Page winning. Whoever beats the Bucks would get the pop of their career I feel. I think that would be a good compromise to some people. Yeah, maybe they could give a title shot to the Dark Ord- Oh.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Aug 2, 2021 10:38:13 GMT -5
If Christian gets trotted out there to "main event" against Kenny, a Chicago AEW crowd will absolutely hijack the match. I think AEW knows this and won't do it, unless they make a conscious decision to turn Christian into "Veteran Heel #11324 - you fans don't respect what I've put my body through." Which is what I really hope doesn't happen, as I've alluded to. Christian in the match will really turn me off of AEW short term. Chicago will be fine with Christian IF Page is taking time off for personal reasons. IF that's the case, Christian will get a good reception and the fans might even get really into it if he can get a couple weeks build - he's a fantastic promo and his character going against Omega writes itself.
If Page is still around, or taken off purely for story reasons, then there's no one on that roster short of Punk, Bryan, or Darby who'd get a good reception based on current booking. Eddie Kingston could do it but like Christian he'd need time to build.
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ZERO
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Post by ZERO on Aug 2, 2021 10:57:49 GMT -5
If Christian Cage gets a shot, I'm going to assume it's TNA in 2005 all over again.
I feel like there's enough people in AEW with the sense to see that it's not the best idea and that people are ready to see Page topple Kenny Omega.
It would give all the people, who think all AEW does is hire former WWE talent (but really, find me someone who's been around a few years who didn't pass through some WWE subsidiary at some point), the ammunition to say they were right all along.
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